du Preez twins

I don’t get what happens with the twins. I know some of you clowns don’t rate them which is absolutely absurd on a rugby front

If you rate Jasper Wiese then it makes no sense that you don’t rate the twins as they are effectively clones of Jasper. Personally I think they are better than Jasper but you get my point.

But more to the actual point - why do they keep making the squad only to be left out again soon after - nothing changes with them in terms of how they play the game, who they are etc

I get that some players have the ability but don’t fit in with the team and end up getting discarded but the fact the twins keep getting recalls suggests they are seen as fits

I’m struggling to understand the in and out position these two find themselves in. It would have been better for Bok rugby had these two remained in the squad from day one

My guess is we will see JL play against the Baabaas and then that will be it

None of it makes sense to me

I must be honest, I used to really like both of them and thought they'd be good additions to the Bok setup.

I'd have taken them over Yasper at the time (circa 2022/23).

But I have learnt that I do not know best. Rassie, Jacques, Mzwandile and Daan clearly know things and see things that we don't see.

Maybe they don't have the attributes that the Bok setup needs? Who knows??

But yes, they are good and probably very unlucky to be South African right now.

They are good club-level players, not test-standard. Wiese has a much higher work rate than both of the creatine twins combined. Playing 2 creatine twins in one backrow is a disaster against opposition that are good at the breakdown.

Is this the calm before the storm?

Disagree Flash there are a good few examples of Rassie making poor selection calls he is not perfect, if he was we would have a 100% record

I’m not going to bang on about useless Mostert but selections like Orie (maybe political) and of late Neethling Fouche an average tighthead aged 33 - a piss poor selection - much like the non selection of the likes of Ruben v Heerden or David Kriel.

He has definitely got it wrong when it comes to the du Preez twins

Shark your take on anything rugby is summed up by your ignorant take on the twins - what the fuck has the breakdown got to do with the twins - absolute horseshit that Wiese has a higher work rate

When last did you actually see the twins play, your inability to evolve from your initial ignorant take on the twins makes you a very boring and predictable contributor on here

A little bit like your take on Mostert and the great Richie McCaw Saffolk…..

Nope I stand on my call of a physically inept lock who brings nothing to the table other than heart, energy and loads of process tackles. Mostert and s shit in my books as a Bok lock needs to be physical first and foremost

As for Richie it’s the most ridiculous call in rugby that he can even begin to be thought of as the best ever - it’s fucking insulting to the game if he represents the best in our beloved game - he was a solid player - nothing gifted about him, solid with ball in hand, solid defender, average over the ball

For me just off the top of my head regarding SA loosies - Rob Louw, Joe v Niekerk, Schalk, Juan Smith, Ruben Kruger, Skinstad, Andre Venter, Kolisi, PSDT, Vermeulen, Brussouw, etc are all better than Richie

Most hyped rugby player ever

Well that about sums up your knowledge of rugby Saffolk. Non-existent…..

Wrong there is one thing I am certain about and that is my knowledge of rugby

I know a brilliant rugby player when I see one and Richie and Mostert are anything but brilliant

Personally despised Richie, half out of jealousy and half out of not respecting the "playing to edge of laws mentality" but he was the boss of the best AB team in my lifetime and the moment he retired their fortunes changed for worse.

How any rugby fan could think of him as average is beyond me.

A great way to get many holes poked into yourself is by not being able to recognise the tip of the spear, Dave.

Failures such as calling Richie average and Mostert a powderpuff are such examples.

Out of all the Boks, Mostert is the guy I'd really love to meet. And if I was going to war, he'd be the guy I'd want to have my back.

"Nope I stand on my call of a physically inept lock who brings nothing to the table other than heart..."

You mean he brings nothing other than the most vital and transcendent ingredient of them all.

LOL

There is no doubt McCaw was a great leader and a bloody nuisance but a brilliant rugby player he was not

As for powder puff I don’t rate him at all, for not only does he add no dominance physically he is not even a talented rugby player - heart and energy do not equate to physical productivity

For me a fundamental prerequisite for a Bok lock is that he has to be physical first and foremost it’s why the likes of Mostert, Orie and Nortje would not smell my squad of 100 players - Nortje as a possible option at 7 as he at least has good skills

But my test locks need to be big boys with grunt - Eben, RG, Lood, Jenkins, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, Cobus Wiese, JF v Heerden, Moerat, Rahl etc not 110kg players that are lighter and have less physical grunt than my centres

Dave, you are totally unrealistic in your expectations.

Eben is the man, right? So is RG? How many times in a given game do they tackle somebody backwards?

Answer; hardly ever. You're basing your entire argument on big hits, but if you actually knew what you were talking about, you would realise that if RG or Eben tackle a guy backwards twice in a game that is a lot. It's rare...super rare.

In other words, you are completely overshooting the mark and arguing from false logic. Despite them being "bigger", the cumulative effect of the "big hits" is minimal in the grand scheme of things. The majority of what the do defensively are process tackles.

Now, I know you're gonna use your normal "bullshit" line...so I'll count the backwards tackles for you this weekend. And because you still owe me money from the Irish series bet that you lost, I'll give you a chance to double or nothing. I'll bet you that during tomorrow's game against the rag tag Babaas, no lock on either side will tackle anyone backwards more than 3 times in the entire game.

And just so you don't chicken out...if a lock is replaced, his backwards tackle count can carry over to his replacement.

And, if 3 is too high a number for you, and you want it to move down to 2, then one has to ask if you're basing your entire argument on a mere 3 backwards tackles per game...IE something almost entirely inconsequential over 80 minutes and quite obviously less influential than a tackle count which is 25-40% higher on average.

The ball's in your court

Mostert is a very secure tackler….but crucially he is inevitably in the right place to make the tackle. He reads the game….pick any test and watch his urgency to get where he is needed. 

Add to that his lineout play at the most difficult jumping position and you have a major contributor.

Oh wow one would swear physicality was measured by the number of dominant tackles a player makes

Plum your poor grasp of the game explains a lot

Let me indulge you - a test lock weighing 125kg is obviously going to be more physically imposing than a 110kg one - that advantage applies to every aspect of the game - everytime contact is made be it offensively or defensively.

So everytime Eben carries in traffic he is going to be more effective than Mostert - he invariably breaches the advantage line, providing go forward, forward momentum and with that adding positivity to the side as a whole - front foot advantage. This is not the case when Mostert carries in traffic, there is no breaching of the advantage line, he is easily stopped dead in his tracks or pushed backwards

Everytime Eben scrums he is going to provide more force to the frontrow than Mostert ever will. Every ruck or maul Eben is involved in, he will provide more physical assistance to that ruck or maul than Mostert and the same applies to ruck defences

Yes many of Eben’s tackles will be process as all of Mostert’s are but those 2 or 3 dominant hits a game by Eben, lifts the side as a whole. I’ve never seen Mostert make a dominant big hit as he is simply not equipped to effect dominance - be it defensively or in the carry

Therein lies my issue with Mostert - in every aspect of the game that involves contact he is conceding physically and what makes things worse is that he is not even a gifted rugby player that is able to offset his physical inadequacies with a skill set that sees him running great lines or having great hands to put players away.

Matfield conceded bulk but had an unbelievable skill set that offset that lack of grunt. But even he decided he needed to bulk up and was weighing in at a respectable 117kg by the time he packed it in

Sorry but I literally think Mostert is not even solid, he is shit - he is a sad excuse for a Bok lock - there always have been far better options to select as there are now. It’s not the job nor the measure of a lock by how many process tackles he makes a game. If you think test lock you don’t think process tackles

Dave

You don't have nearly the respect for Stamina that you should.

1) A locks job is not to carry in traffic and locks are notoriously bad at carrying in traffic because of their high centre of gravity. The best locks can impose themselves but locks have always played more of a holding role with the best of the best being guys that can get their arms through tackle and offload...think RG and Jaws. And of course their synergy with hooker at lineout is priority number one.

2) You don't know that Eben provides more force at scrum time that Mostert or any other lock does. I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm just saying that you don't know that he does. For all we know, Lood could provide more force than anybody else.

3) 2 or 3 dominant tackles in a game are not nearly as influential as a lock that gives you a much higher tackle count. I actually showed you a graph before, of the WC, showing how Mostert picked up the slack in terms of tackle count for guys like Kolisi and Eben who made far less tackles than he did. Somebody has to make those tackles and you can't substitute 10 extra tackles in a game for 2 or 3 big hits. The priority is to stop an attacker, not to overpower them.

4) At ruck time, you don't need to expend crazy amounts of energy. Of course a well timed counter ruck is great to see, but much like dominant tackles, they are rare. What you need to do is to secure the ball. And that is far more about speed to the ruck than it is about power at the ruck. Two Mostert's over the ball are no less effective than two Ebens over the ball. What matters is who gets there first and the guy who is slightly lighter and has more Stamina will attend more rucks and get to them sooner than a musclebound freak.

Dave, you are far more about players looking the part than actually being the part.

Do yourself a favour and look at Mostert's numbers in the categories that Matter for a lock...and you'll see that in just about every category he leads the list. From ruck attendance to tackles and lineout success.

While the odd dominant tackle is great, the main body of work counts for a lot more.

Du Preez really hasn’t offered much today.

Yes, it was another dismal performance by the creatine specimen, Dumb Luc Dupreez. Then he got KO'ed by Lomp.

Too small to play lock, he looked like a slow cumbersome figure around the rucks.

I thought Bottervingers had a decent 1st half.

LOL

Wiese is so far ahead of everybody else.

Hanekom and Roos might get ahead of him once they prove themselves at test level but as of right now, nobody touches Wiese for the 8 jersey.

Bullshit JL had a good game you ignorant twits

Trust Draad to be the only one rugby astute enough to pick up on the positive

ahhh finally.

Welcome back big poes!

How was your dogging weekend?

Fuck me Plum your grasp of rugby is astoundingly poor - of course locks are used to carry in traffic fuck me what rugby do you watch?

I think it’s pretty bloody obvious that Eben provides far more power in the scrums than powder puff does - it’s man vs boy

Eben has nearly 20kg on Mostert and with that is far far stronger so it’s pretty obvious he would provide more power in the scrums

Ask any prop who he would prefer behind him Eben or Mostert - it’s no contest

Tackle count for a test lock is a very insignificant stat - the stats that matter are physicality as is the case for the props and blindside

"Ask any prop who he would prefer behind him Eben or Mostert - it’s no contest "

So we ask...

Dave... who would you like behind you? Eben or Mostert?

Chip go finger your cat again

No thanks David. I don't like your sloppy seconds.

You handsome little porker.

Dave, you have zero idea of strength.

I'm just on 1.8m and 85kgs and I bench around 130kgs atm. You would look at me and go "wat guy wot is 20kgs heavier is obviously stronger."

And you'd be wrong because appearance has very little to do with power. It's why body builders generally make kak strongmen. I bench more than the majority of guys that are taller and heavier than I am. The funny thing is that I gym but I don't even focus on going as heavy as I can and doing everything my power to lift more. If I did, I could probably get up to benching twice my body weight quite easily.

Strength is genetic and can be gained through training, to a degree, but the rest is intangible to the point where it's virtually not able to be explained.

You have no idea if Mostert provides more or less pressure at the scrum than Eben does. You don't, and very few people in the world do. And let's not forget that since I know so little, I might also add that it's not just about strength either because there is also the angle, synergy, explosiveness...

Dave, in the end, your noise is entirely disproportionate to your knowledge.

Oh bullshit it’s the word of any prop out there - they always say they prefer a big physical lock behind them, that’s why you have your enforcer lock behind the tighthead.

So if your other lock happens to be RG or Lood then that obviously is a benefit to the loosehead

It’s obvious Mostert lacks strength as not once in all the years having watched him play has he EVER demonstrated any form of physical dominance or power play.

You can tell from hours of viewing which players are clearly powerful and which are not and Mostert features way down the list

I bet the likes of Esterhuizen, de Allende, Jessie Kriel and Mapimpi probably out bench press him - but obviously that’s just a guess

Like I said, Dawid, you have no concept of strength.

Here...

Nemani Nadolo (Montpellier) 175kg

Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) 175kg

Impressive, right?

Wrong...

Maro Itoje (Saracens) 187.5kg

David Pocock (Panasonic Wildknights) 185kg

Super impressive, right?

Wrong again...

Gheorghe Gajion (Ospreys) 230kg

WillGriff John (Sale Sharks) 230kg

To put this in context for you...

Eben Benches 175kg and Dan Carter was at 145kgs...that's only a 30kg difference.

Meanwhile, Eben benches 10Kgs less than Itoje and a whopping 55kgs less than Gheorghe Gajion (Ospreys) 230kg.

Now, had I asked you, you have said that Eben is surely one of the strongest men in rugby. In reality he doesn't crack the top 30.

And again, you completely ignore all the other aspects.

By the way, guess how many times locks tackled anybody backwards on Saturday? A whopping 1 time. That's the most any of the locks on the field hit anybody backwards.

Would you like to reexamine your stance on big hits that send attackers back in the direction they came from and how important it is. Tell us, in the grand scheme of this, how influential do you believe that single backwards tackle by Lood was? Was it worth 5 or 10 process tackles? But let's leave that there because your ridiculous criteria of big blocks hitting people out of the park is a complete joke and almost entirely unnecessary in any game of rugby at any level.

Back to scrums. Now, I'm not saying that Eben isn't the guy every prop in world rugby would wants backing them up. What I am saying is that you don't know that to be the case and you have no evidence to the fact.

What do we have evidence for? We have evidence for Mostert's great tackle count, excellent lineout jumping and then we have circumstantial evidence that Rassie prefers Mostert over almost anybody else.

...but you've got your "eyes", right, Saffex?

The same eyes that can't report to you anything but ambiguities when it comes to DDA's stellar performances.

I'll repeat, you have no concept of strength, and you have even less idea of strength as it applies to rugby.

Oh what a load of crap one would swear that those bench press records are gospel and that every bench press a player does is public record

That is a joke

I don’t need bench press stats to know Eben is stronger than Itoje - that is evidenced on the field when you see Eben man handling Itoje in scuffles as he has all players

But more to the point - powder puff has never demonstrated any sign of strength on a rugby pitch ever - he is scrawny, narrow shouldered with zero muscle definition.

Mostert must be the weakest tightforward in the squad. He has never imposed himself physically EVER which is a clear measure that there is nothing powerful about the guy

You are speaking utter shit that Rassie prefers Mostert over everyone else - absolute rubbish. When Rassie came on board he stupidly picked Mostert to partner Eben - but he clearly worked out that Lood was better and it was Eben and Lood who were our starting locks with Mostert on the bench

Lood got injured and Mostert returned to the starting side. Had RG been fit then no doubt he would have started with Eben evidenced by the EOYT all important game against England where RG partnered Eben after Mostert had started against Scotland

Its clear Rassie prefers the bigger and better Lood or RG to partner Eben with powder puff filling in when Lood and RG are injured, which fortunately for Mostert is pretty frequent

Ill say it again - process tackles by a lock means fuck all, it’s low down the list of primary tasks of a test lock

The primary tasks are adding physicality to all contact situations - carrying, scrums, rucks, mauls and defence. Line outs are another

Process tackles are an added bonus if the lock is executing his primary functions well which is exactly what Ruben v Heerden is about

He is great physically and makes as many process tackles a game as powder puff does - is he measured by those tackles - no way in hell

You don’t appreciate the primary tasks of a test lock

You don’t appreciate know the primary tasks of a test lock

Fixed!

Yeah Mostert is great because he makes loads of process tackles and takes his line out balls

When in the history of the game has a Bok lock been measured by the number of process tackles he has made per game?

There is absolutely nothing special about his line out work it’s no better or worse than any Bok lock - if you are playing test level rugby as a lock, let’s face it - operating well in line outs is pretty much a standard prerequisite

So if he offers very little physically in contact situations, what is his real value in the side? It’s not like he is a great ball player that offers something extra in general play to offset his deficiencies in the physical aspect of the game?

It is literally those bloody process tackles - all of say 4 or 5 more per game than a real lock would make like RG, Lood or Ruben v Heerden

Fuck those extra 5 tackles he makes per game I say and get a real lock on board to partner Eben - one that is able to impose themselves physically, takes their line out ball and makes 5 less process tackles a game than powder puff does

It’s a no brainer

Surely you aren't for real with this...

"I don’t need bench press stats to know Eben is stronger than Itoje - that is evidenced on the field when you see Eben man handling Itoje in scuffles as he has all players"

Eben is more of an athlete than Itoje, that's as much as we know.

Dave logic = the strongest fighter in a weight class is always the champ.

Understood and settle logic of literally everybody else = Winning a confrontation is about far more than strength. Agility, explosiveness, timing, speed, intelligence...

Dave, a 65Kg jujitsu practitioner would own a 130kg strongman unless that strongman is of equal jujitsu skill. This is settled and known. Eben is a wrestler, the next best thing to jujitsu...how do you know exactly how much his strength contributes to his dominance?

You don't. You really don't.

I realise that we're here dismantling your reality, but don't worry, it'll all work out in the end.

From about the middle of this video you see a world strongman versus a world jujitsu champ...the results, LOL.