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FORUM / RUGBY /  Duane to win breakdown battle for Boks

Duane to win breakdown battle for Boks

Started by Beeno117 REPLIES619 VIEWS· 04 Sept 2015, 19:11
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Sept 2015, 19:11
#1
04 Sept 2015, 19:11#1
Things sounding good re Duane. ExSuperpsort:

Duane Vermeulen took some time to mature as a player of real international quality but can now be counted among the best loose forwards in the world. (He had poor bent read for breakfast. The denialist kbbs had been trying to punt the bent read as the best number 8 in the world. I kid you not!!)

The burley 29-year-old, who has cemented the No 8 position in the South Africa side but is equally adept at flanker, will be a key figure for the Springboks at the World Cup.

Vermeulen adds muscle to the scrum, is a ferocious ball carrier and unyielding in defence, with a work rate that appears near impossible for a man of his size.

He was touch and go for the tournament after undergoing neck surgery in July, which meant that he has missed the entire international season to date.

Coach Heyneke Meyer believes that Vermeulen is not only 100 percent fit again but is well rested and looking in formidable form going into the tournament.

"Duane is world class, which was underlined last year when he was named the SA Rugby Player of the Year and nominated for the World Rugby Player of the Year Award," Meyer told reporters recently.

"He is one of the leaders in our squad and since making his debut in 2012 has become an integral member of the team."

A bear of a man, Vermeulen's rugged looks belie a player of such skill with ball in hand while remaining a potent weapon at the breakdown.

Yet his chance in the national team was a long time in coming. Vermeulen had five years in Super Rugby with the Cheetahs and Stormers before he was handed his debut by Meyer in the 2012 Rugby Championship.(Beeno had of course been calling for his inclusion years before he was. Why dont they listen!!)

His has been a regular ever since, always in his favoured No 8 position.

England were given a painful glimpse of Vermeulen's potential at the end of 2012. He carried the ball superbly, put in 15 bone-crunching tackles and won a number of turnovers to help the Springboks to a slender 16-15 victory at Twickenham.

It was a performance that showed Vermeulen had arrived as an international player.

His game has only improved since then, culminating in a landslide victory as 2014 South African Rugby Player of the Year and gaining one of the five nominations for the global award.

Vermeulen has won 29 caps since his debut three years ago and recently signed a three-year contract with French Top 14 side Toulon, who he will join after the World Cup.


If all were fit my loose trio would be Coetzee, Burger and Vermulen. Three warriors to go to war with. Locks of course Eben and Lood. I would still stick with beast, Jannie and Bissie. That gentelman would be the best pack in world rugby. The bench also would be formidable and have a big impact.

No bleats from that crazy duck please!  His ramblings are enough to drive the sane insane! 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
04 Sept 2015, 19:27
#2
04 Sept 2015, 19:27#2
Meyer could yet have the last laugh. All the injured players are now fit and raring to go
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Sept 2015, 19:30
#3
04 Sept 2015, 19:30#3
 The truth is we do not have our strongest squad but if a guy like Fourie du Preez and some others fire who knows!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Sept 2015, 03:13
#4
05 Sept 2015, 03:13#4
 Beeno: please check your grand children's books & you will find that ducks don't bleat. Thank God for the younger generation as surely the world will be a safer saner place
Maybe these returning players will overcome their injuries & get enough game time in the pool matches to regain their form. We will have to wait and see. As you correctly conclude who knows. I have always maintained that the Boks have a shot as do 4 or more other teams.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Sept 2015, 06:10
#5
05 Sept 2015, 06:10#5
 Beeno
The problem to my mind is that all three loosies have to play a role in ball protection and recovery in breakdown situations - one player on his own cannot do the work that should be shared between three of them.
Louw was very good in that aspect of the game - but I do not think that he is up to standard anymore.  I may be wrong, but after his head was nearly taken off by McCaw in the test last year and he had to undergo a neck operation as a result of the injury - he seems to be hesitant in entering the fray.
Alberts does not know what ball protection and recovery means.   He is too slow to get to breakdown points and is clumsy to boot.  Burger is not much better in that component of the game - so we are in a twang in the case of those selections, so we are still short in what can be achieved.
I do not think that Du Preez will make the grade this year.  His constant injuries will take away a lot from what he used to be as a scrummie - he will try and avoid contact and that would take him away from defense around the fringes and he would not try anything in attacking play either.                
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Sept 2015, 06:48
#6
05 Sept 2015, 06:48#6
JW the WC pool segment is a good venue for easing players back from injury, but guys like Vermeulen, F du Preez and Alberts have to play in the pool games. The moment you hit the QFs it's take no prisoners and no time to get match fit. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
05 Sept 2015, 07:59
#7
05 Sept 2015, 07:59#7
 
Duane is probably one of the top three eighthmen on the planet.

I'm sure he'll impress. He usually does. He's a big plus for Zuma's Goats ... one of a handful unfortunately.

You guys keep mentioning Du Preez ... as if he's still of the same caliber he was in 2007. 

He's not.  He's probably 20% of what that man was ... and on top of that, he's badly out of shape.

It really is time you guys start facing facts.

We are in trouble, boys. Deep in the dwang!!!


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Sept 2015, 09:23
#8
05 Sept 2015, 09:23#8
 I think some people missed out on the topic - it is breakdown ball recovery that we are talking of here.  Louw seems to have gone backwards in that regard since his neck injury and insofar as Alberts is concerned he never ever recovered breakdown balls - in the past four years he never recovered a single ball at breakdowns - so that shows how useless he really is in that regard.
CC is correct about Du Preez whom Beeno referred to as well,   He is over 33 years of age - and since 2012 he was injured for about 50% of rugby seasons.   Since June 2014 he was only fit to play for two months.   In 2012 he was approached by Meyer and declined because he was injured.   In total since his departure for Japan in 2011 Du Preez has played in -
*  37 matches for his club (Suntory Sungoliath) and 
*  7 test matches for the Springboks.
Since November 2011 Du Preez over 4 years only played an average of 11 matches per year.  If the high match figures for 2011-13 are left out, he averaged only 9 matches per year  played since January 2014.   Test players in SA play up to 26 matches a year, ie double the number of matches on a much higher level than Japanese club rugby.  Since 2012 Du Preez played in only 8 tests for SA - in one test he played from the bench for about 15 minutes - so I left that out of calculation.  In the seven full matches he was good in 2 and average/bog ordinary in 5.  
I cannot see how he can still be performing acceptably after an absence of 14 months from any real rugby - the 7 matches in Japanese club rugby (January-February 2015) is a joke.   At his age and physical condition one can only expect a flop.          
                          
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
05 Sept 2015, 10:55
#9
05 Sept 2015, 10:55#9
 
Quite right, Mike ... I missed it.

Like Coetzee, Louw isn't a natural openside flank.

He has impressed there from time to time but it's almost as if he forgets his role when playing at 6. He needs to be reminded of his primary function playing on the openside and because of that I would not play him at 6.

Duane is awesome at winning turnover ball ... it goes over and beyond his role as an 8th man.

The Goats will depend on him heavily during this world cup ... especially during the times when Flo forgets his role by reverting back to blindside play which comes more naturally.

It's frightening to think that Meyer never bothered to select anyone for openside cover.

The injured Louw is all we have.

Oh and please don't throw the Kolisi horseshyte at me as being that cover.

Madness!!


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
05 Sept 2015, 11:41
#10
05 Sept 2015, 11:41#10
 Marcel and Burger were supposed to be that cover,  but neither are opensides IMO. For some odd reason Saffa coaches in general don't buy into the classical openside philosophy. Always baffled me. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Sept 2015, 12:11
#11
05 Sept 2015, 12:11#11
 Draad & CC
This is where the loose forwards in the side is totally unbalanced and some of the dolts do not realize it.  Meyer should have forgotten about a dolt like Fat Willem and include a genuine open-sider in the squad.   Not that we do not have opensiders - we have all of Brussow, Kriel, Coetzee  and Labuschagne to chose from.  The latter can play on both sides of the scrum - but he does not "forget" about which side he is on.
The coaches always talk about breakdown ball protection and recovery - yet when they select squads that consideration goes out of the window.  
  


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
05 Sept 2015, 15:48
#12
05 Sept 2015, 15:48#12
 Mike,  like I said,  apparently not the Saffa way.  Neither Jake,  nor PdV bought into it.  Brussouw basically forced his way into the team.  Jake thought a fetcher was a laaitie who fetched the beer for the men. Strange indeed. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Sept 2015, 16:16
#13
05 Sept 2015, 16:16#13
Oh for heaven sake. How many times do we have to learn the same basics in physics? There are two ways of dealing with the ball on the ground.....fetching and counter rucking.

Jake mocked fetching. Set up a great counter ruck and blew all the fetchers away at the WC.
Likewise in 2013 the trio of Alberts, Louw and  Vermeulen went to Europe  and blew away all the fetchers. Dominate the ruck and fetching becomes a hard proposition.
So the answer is, if you have a great fetcher like Poclock....play him. But don't expect a small chap like Brossouw who was dominated in 2011, or an utterly inept energy player like Coetzee to do the job. They won't.

We have lots of fetchers in Biz, Thor, Schalk/ Louw.  They will be a threat. But the bigger threat will be the power rucking provided by Etzebeth, Alberts and Vermeulen.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Sept 2015, 17:10
#14
05 Sept 2015, 17:10#14
 Here we have our Board sage again.  Ball protection and recovery is not important at all - so-called counter-rucking is.   The power rucking of Alberts is important - he never gets to break-downs to make counter-rucking possible so it is not understandable how he comes into the picture.
I have never read such a load of tripe about loosie play requirements for years - and that explains his support for a dud like Alberts as a loosie.   
Hell - breakdown ball protection and recovery is not important?????????!!!!!!!!    
We have two pearls of wisdom from our resident sage, namely -
*   90% of the functions of a flyhalf is to kick balls; and
*   now the fact that breakdown ball protection and recovery is not important in the game of rugby.
So let them come - it is hilarious to see what comes out of this sage thinking - you can be sure the next instalment will be as stupid as these two are.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Sept 2015, 18:27
#15
05 Sept 2015, 18:27#15

Pervert the way you protect the breakdown ball is to pound the fetcher off the ball. ...not counter fetch you dolt. I think if you don't let go soon you might blow a boob....you are beginning to sound like the insane giggling Police Chief in Clouseau.

 

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
05 Sept 2015, 19:02
#16
05 Sept 2015, 19:02#16
 Moz,  agreed,  prime example being Stormers vs Bools in their first matchup in this years SXV. 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
05 Sept 2015, 19:21
#17
05 Sept 2015, 19:21#17
Duane is a key weapon in SA certainly in the top 3 in world rugby with Kieran Read and Sergio Parisse
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Sept 2015, 19:55
#18
05 Sept 2015, 19:55#18
 Mozart
You can only do what you say is supposed to happen when the players get to breakdown points and that is just not possible with Alberts and co.   By the time they get to the first breakdown the second one is already on the go.   We lost equal number of possession through turnovers and aimless kicking in the past and that accounts for our poor performance record in the past.   There is no way that the same would not happen in the upcoming WC.
You sound more and more rugby ignorant with every post you make on this site.  But keep them coming we will all come to that conclusion that rugby ignorance on your part has no limits.    
   
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