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FORUM / RUGBY /  Dynamic midfield duo delight

Dynamic midfield duo delight

Started by Beeno137 REPLIES484 VIEWS· 22 Apr 2013, 13:52
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Apr 2013, 13:52
#1
22 Apr 2013, 13:52#1

MARK KEOHANE, in Business Day writes, that Jan Serfontein and JJ Engelbrecht produced the best South African Super Rugby midfield performance of the year.

The Bulls reinforced the view that they are the most balanced South African team in this year’s Super Rugby and Serfontein’s introduction into the starting XV has transformed the potency of the team’s attack.

The Bulls first half against the Kings in Port Elizabeth was as good as I have seen from a South African Super Rugby team this season.

The Kings were given a lesson in every aspect of the game in an opening 40 that showcased every quality that historically has made South Africa one of the great rugby nations.

The Bulls forwards (Please note oaks where one starts!!), to the man, were colossal in the contact. They were dominant at the gainline and physically imposed themselves on a team whose physicality had been its strength for the last two months.

Halfbacks Jano Vermaak and Morne Steyn turned the physical superiority into playing superiority (Please note oaks as I have tried in vain to explain this to ou maaikie and others). Vermaak was decisive and played with variation and Steyn dictated and played with authority. (Quite possibly you Bok half backs?)

There has been criticism of Steyn’s game at Test level, but in Super Rugby he is among the best 10s in the competition. He is the leading South African No 10 on form and there is no better exponent of front foot flyhalf play in South Africa.

Steyn’s downfall at Test level has often been when his pack is negated and he is forced to conjure up the individual brilliance that defines New Zealand’s Dan Carter.

Steyn does not possess those natural skills of Carter but then Carter in the last decade has been the exception to flyhalf play and not the rule.
The neutral tuning into the Bulls visit to Port Elizabeth would have been awed by the pace and precision of the first 40 minutes. This was South African rugby at its best.

I have always countered the view, held especially in Australia, that South African players offer physicality but are not blessed with natural attacking skills. (We have had some awesome backlines!!!)

The very best Springbok teams have always been fantastic attacking sides. If you doubt the view do a search on YouTube and type in the Boks scoring 50 points against France in Paris in 1997. That’s just one example of how South Africans can play if they are encouraged to trust their natural attacking instincts.

We have always had the players in South Africa, but we have not always had the belief in their attack or the patience in investment. The conservative nature of our coaches and supporters encourage a risk-free approach.

The Bulls in Port Elizabeth showed energy and enterprise. Vermaak’s try should be shown over and over whenever anyone suggests South African players don’t know how to attack and don’t know how to make decisive offloads in the tackle.

It is my try of the season when I factor occasion, playing conditions and decision-making.

Serfontein, selected to start because of injury to Wynand Olivier, has added the missing dimension to the Bulls backs and he has also added something better to outside centre JJ Engelbrecht’s attacking game.(Jan has a top rugby brain. Keeps doing the right thing. A great in the making)

Engelbrecht, originally a winger at Western Province, has made the positional switch to outside centre with the Bulls. I know Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer was initially very impressed with Engelbrecht, but the transition a year ago stuttered and there were reservations of the player’s defensive organization at No 13. The criticism wasn’t that he couldn’t tackle but that he couldn’t organize structured defence.(The criticsm wa scorrect but JJ is improving. Keep going JJ!!)

Jacque Fourie, as an outside centre, was among the game’s most effective defensive organisers, and he was also blessed with the size and pace of most international wingers.

Engelbrecht is no Fourie but he has all the attributes to be Fourie’s successor. There has to be an investment in him and it may come now that Serfontein is playing as his Bulls midfield partner.

The duo caused chaos against the experienced Kings midfield of Andries Strauss and Waylon Murray, and Engelbrecht was particularly strong defensively in the latter stages of the game.

Engelbrecht missed out on the end of year tour. He also missed out on Meyer’s recent Bok training squad, but I don’t see him missing out in June if the Bulls forwards sustain the intensity of Port Elizabeth and Serfontein and Steyn remain on his inside.

Jean de Villiers will captain the Boks if fit but Serfontein will get an introduction to Test rugby against Scotland and Italy and of all the South African 13’s on display Engelbrecht is the one I’d be picking.

De Villiers and Fourie, at their peak, were the best midfield in the game. Serfontein and Engelbrecht, in time, could be even better.

So well done to the snapster with sticking to JJ at center. One of his calls I guess had to come off!

Unforunately his calls re Vermaak and Morne have been hopeless as is his call on Brussouw and Kolis etc etc. I mention this lest a little success goes to ou snapsters head.  But lets enjoy the moment eh snapster!

BB
Bok -Bef$KClub Pro216 posts
22 Apr 2013, 14:08
#2
22 Apr 2013, 14:08#2
It is going to take me more than one good game to convince me JJ is a centre. I still see him as a wing especially with Rohan Janse van Rensburg bursting on the scene within a year or two.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Apr 2013, 14:28
#3
22 Apr 2013, 14:28#3

Bokb I too had him more pegged as a winger. However he is improving in all aspects of his center game. I like the fact tha the has real pace and a step. A center pairing to watch as the bulle will not move him to wing.

Who is Rohan?

BB
Bok -Bef$KClub Pro216 posts
22 Apr 2013, 14:37
#4
22 Apr 2013, 14:37#4
Agree JJ really stepped up at outside centre. Rohan currently plays for the Vodacom Cup Bulls team, he is a real prospect at 18 or 19 years of age. Big, strong and fast. One thing is forsure I am quite exited about the bok backline in 2/3/4 years time.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Apr 2013, 15:15
#5
22 Apr 2013, 15:15#5

Beeno

I am a great admirer of Serfontein - but am unsure about Engelbrecht.   He has had an up and down Super 15 thus far this year with as many good games as he had below par games.   He has speed - but he is not really effective in breaking lines and creating space for other players.

However, his most problematic issue is his defence.   As far as I can remember he has this year made 52 tackles and missed 10.  It was not only that - there are cases where he was not attempting tackles at all and the opposing teams scored tries.   Basically for every five tackles he makes - he misses 1 in essence it means that he misses about 20% of all attempted tackles.   At center missed tackles are very problematic since it puts cover defence at an extreme disadvantage.  Tackles will always be missed - but a figure below 10% is really essential - 20% is way too high for comfort.  

As an example I wish to mention a player like Jordaan who has made 69 tackles  this year and missed only 4.   That is more ideal and although Jordaan only on Saturday showed some attackking spark of life - his defence was very good this year.

On the other end of the scale you have De Jongh - who made 24 tackles and missed 8 - a really totally unacceptable figure.  Despite the three tries scored by him - his poor defence cost his team dearly and the loss against the Cheetahs is an example of where he defensively was totally inadequate. 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
22 Apr 2013, 16:08
#6
22 Apr 2013, 16:08#6

Yeah, I am 100 % with Mike on this one! Serfontein is a raw talent and in my opinion, a potential great. I am not entirely convinced about JJ. He is good, but he has real deficiencies in his game.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
22 Apr 2013, 17:32
#7
22 Apr 2013, 17:32#7

serfontein has the goods to be one of the best around but he still needs to be developed and looked after. he is not the complete package yet but he is getting there.

 

JJ has for me never set the world alight but in the blue bulls team he looks like a decent player. is it a case of in the land of the blind the one eyed is king ???? i dont know. time will tell

 

on the other hand i prefer jordaan do his attacking ablity even though for some reason people tend to think he gives away yards on defence but he for his frame has done amazing work. he just needs some decent quick ball and space to work with.

 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Apr 2013, 17:41
#8
22 Apr 2013, 17:41#8

bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 803
RE: Dynamic midfield duo delight
April 22, 2013, 14:08:56

Yeah, I am 100 % with Mike on this one! Serfontein is a raw talent and in my opinion, a potential great. I am not entirely convinced about JJ. He is good, but he has real deficiencies in his game.

 

 

 

But he does not miss 20% of his tackles. Oom Maaik is just batling with the stats again. He has missed 8 tackles and made 52. That is a tackle success rate of 52/60 ( or 83.67%) or a tackle fail rate of 8/60 (13.3%)

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Apr 2013, 17:54
#9
22 Apr 2013, 17:54#9

Ceradyne

Acording to ESPN stats he missed TEN TACKLES - not 8 as you said,    Try your sum again and you wmay come up with a better calculation.  I used 20% because most of his misses were in key games all lost by the Bulls - ie where he missed tackles and the opposition scored tries - iespecially against stronger centers and stronger compeition.    Remember on intrnational level - he will come up against stronger opposition all the time.   Against the minnow teams with average centers that will never see international selection his defence is relatively good. 

The question is - is his defence solid enough - or not?   I do not think it is adequate at all.  .

 

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
22 Apr 2013, 17:57
#10
22 Apr 2013, 17:57#10

with or without the stats JJ is not international quality in my view. his game is to one dimensional.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Apr 2013, 18:48
#11
22 Apr 2013, 18:48#11

Oom Maaik, according to ESPN stats, he missed EIGHT TACKLES.

0 Against the Stormers
Did not play against the Force
2 Against the Blues
2 Against the Crusaders
2 Against the Reds
0 Against the Brumbies
1 Against the Cheetahs
1 Against the Kings

By my calculations that amounts to 8. 2+2+2+1+1=8, or am I missing something?

 

My calculations has the bare facts as follows. He made 52 tackles (as you have confrimed) and he missed 8. That is a total of 60 tackles. He missed 8 of the 60 tackles. In my book that equats to 13.33% (8/60X100). Does that make sense?

 

Or you could say that he has succeeded with 86.67% of his tackles. (52/60X100)

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Apr 2013, 19:09
#12
22 Apr 2013, 19:09#12

JJ is not the finished article but is progressing.  One hopes his defence will get better and better.  These are just young palyers and its early days but the signs are promising.

Jordaan is operating in a dysfunctional backline. He is also a  fine young player but again is he a winger?

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Apr 2013, 19:22
#13
22 Apr 2013, 19:22#13

Typical Keo diversion after calling for the Kings to beat the Bulls.

 

Engelbrecht's problem is he doesn't know how to hold the defensive line, and he doesn't see the field. Can he learn this, maybe, but my guess would be no. As for the odd good S15 game it happens, factor in the opposition.

 

Jordaan is a good open field runner, but certainly no better than Aplon. And his tackling is much less effective than Aplon, nor does he have Aplon's ability to seize the opportunity. If Aplon wasn't Bok material on the wing, why should Jordaan be at centre.

 

The real deal here is Serfontein. A tough kid with good pace and a real understanding of centre play.  JJ's step up coincided with Serfontein starting....players that lift those around them are likely to succeed. He has one issue as best I can judge and that is a proclivity to step off the right foot. But I'm guessing he can add some variety and become our 12 for the next RWC. For this year I'd play him at 13 outside Jean.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Apr 2013, 20:05
#14
22 Apr 2013, 20:05#14

Mozart

Wild statements again without checking the facts,   You really must be consistent and use facts to substantiate your statement,   According to ESPN scrum Aplon in all the Super 15 games played this year MADE ELEVEN TACKLES and  MISSED FIVE TACKLES.

Trying to make out he is as good a defender as Jordaan is once again a wild statement without substance.  Defence is where Aplon is POOR.

Mozart - before making solitary wild statements based on one or two incidents in six or seven games played - my earnest advice to you is check the stats and then proceed.   I know you love stats as long as it fit your statements and ignore them when not - but please refrain from showing utter contempt for the truth.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Apr 2013, 20:29
#15
22 Apr 2013, 20:29#15

That is now twice in one thread. According to ESPNScrum, Aplon MADE 13 TACKLES, Oom Maaik. Not eleven.

 

"I know you love stats as long as it fit your statements and ignore them when not - but please refrain from showing utter contempt for the truth."  Hahahahahahaha Pot..............kettle.......................black.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Apr 2013, 20:57
#16
22 Apr 2013, 20:57#16

Ceradyne

Sorry - I made a mortal and sinful mistake.  While checking out the stats I did not includre the Cheetahs game where he made 2 tackles and missed none.

The gross mistake recftified the impression that he is a wonderful defender and he really is a great in that respect.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Apr 2013, 21:53
#17
22 Apr 2013, 21:53#17

I have told you many times. Do not exaggerate to make your point.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Apr 2013, 21:55
#18
22 Apr 2013, 21:55#18

Oom Maaik how can we take you seriously if you can't add?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Apr 2013, 22:13
#19
22 Apr 2013, 22:13#19

Mozart

Did I not aplogize for leaving out the Cheetahs game - where Aplon made two tackles and missed none?  I am truely sorry about that oversight.

Be is as it may - your statement about Aplon be a good tackler is not justified by facts.  I think the reason why he is not in the Springbok set up can be linked to his poor defence.    So your whole argument on the Jordaan - Aplon issue falls flat.

However, I do agree with you about Engelbrecht  and his defencive deficiencies.  The same issue was mentioned by the New Zealand commentators in the Crusaders game.   He was titally out of line on two occassions and the Crusaderd ran past him without him being in the position to make tackles.  Both occassions resulted in Crusader tries.

Saffex is going to have a fit about the issue - and try and tell us his defence  is sound - but I do not think it is and I cannot see how he can overcome that playing s a center.  He probably will overcome that on the wing by using the sidelines to good effect as a defender     

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Apr 2013, 22:44
#20
22 Apr 2013, 22:44#20

Well OOM Maaik, Aplon has made 41 of his 48 attempted tackles in tests, for a success rate of 85%. More importantly he has pulled off some amazing one on one tackles in space. He is a superb tackler, with outstanding technique. I know of no SA player I would rather have making a tackle at fullback against an opponent with running room.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Apr 2013, 23:56
#21
22 Apr 2013, 23:56#21

Wrong JJ has always been the best of the 13 candidates in SA, along with Taute. JJ has great balance, is physical, has good speed and always looks to beat the defender through skill, be it a step or swerve.

 

JJ in last years S15 showed me his credentials when he executed the best break I have seen from a SA 13 in years. That was followed with a Bok call up, only to be pathetically discarded by Meyer after a 10 min stint on the wing off the bench.

 

This treatment knocked him and he went into his shell in the CC, struggling at times with over commiting in defence.

 

To his credit, he has now solved the defensive issue and turned it into a strength. Moz seems to conclude that he does not know how to hold the defensive line - this is not the case at all. The lad has perfected the art of snuffing out attacks in the way Fourie and Jean do. Its a strength.

 

He has been good on attack all year, prior to Serfontein joining forces. The two will grow together and for me are the obvious choices as the Bok centre pairing. In fact its one of the easiest selections I would have to make. 

 

DomMike as per usual your take on a player is a load of crap, hardly surprising you have it wrong with JJ as well, keep up the good work, its predictable crap at least

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Apr 2013, 23:59
#22
22 Apr 2013, 23:59#22

Rohan Janse v/Rensburg was last years SA Schools inside centre and snapped up by the Bulls straight away.

 

Big lad at 100kg

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2013, 00:21
#23
23 Apr 2013, 00:21#23

Saffex

No crap - his defence is suspect and has caused problems for the Bulls in some games they lost this year.  Mozart is correct  about that aspect - and the question is - can he overcome his deficiencies in the relevant regard?   If he can - OK he may be a candidate - if he cannot - there is no way he can be a 13 on international level.   No team can afford a 13 that cost them points through deficient defence. 

You normally miss 50% of the games you look at - and misinterpret the other 50% - so I assume the fact of defnce has never been noticed by you.   Bad boy - go to the corner and put your dunce cap on.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 00:35
#24
23 Apr 2013, 00:35#24

Oh what complete bullshit, there has been no issue with JJ's defence this year at all. Moz is not right at all. JJ has been very effective in snuffing out attacks by hitting ball and man, but you are too stupid to see this.

 

Its something experienced backs like Jean, Fourie, JP and Habana do........JJ has mastered the art early on.

 

His defence this year has been bloody good. Your stats are a load of shit. But its not his defence that is worth talking about, its what he brings with ball in hand that counts.

 

JJ has been by far our best SA 13, but you are far too bloody thick to catch onto that. Let me guess you think Jordaan is better - what a dunce

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2013, 01:02
#25
23 Apr 2013, 01:02#25

Saffex

Words - words - words - but no proof.  You may not have seen it - or refuse to recognise it - but there are defencive lapses on the part of Engelbrecht that gave opposing teams the opporunity to score tries against the Bulls.

There may be arguments about it - but in all games played he made 52  tackles and missed 8.  That is a fact of life.   Those 8 misses should be considerably less - if it was 5 it would be acceptable - 8 misses are not acceptable.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2013, 01:04
#26
23 Apr 2013, 01:04#26

Disagree Taute is a very ordinary talent...as was obvious this year. JJ has speed and a step. He is also a big lad. But every NZ 13 we play against has those attributes, and they still choose Conrad Smith. Why? Because he reads the play, gets himself into the right places and executes as part of the whole. JJ is still no centre, even though he looks impressive against weaker teams.

 

Much of the JJ press has come from games against the Cheetahs and Kings...not exactly teams with great 13s. His four prior matches against Saders, Brumbies, Reds and Blues saw him gain only 82 metres.......40 of which came unopposed in his try against the Brumbies.

 

His tackling stats are ok at 84% but they dont reflect mistakes like the Ranger try where, over committing,  he allowed Ranger through without being touched.

 

Serfontein is the talent....JJ is along for the ride.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 01:49
#27
23 Apr 2013, 01:49#27

Wrong JJ has all the attributes of a quality 13 and has shown that this year and the very reason writers are waxing lyrical. 

 

The reality of the Ranger try was that JJ's wing had not come up in the line, JJ was caught in two minds and went for the rush, it did not work. That is the only time he has let one slip.

 

One certainty is that not a single 13 has got the better of his this year, Fruean got no change out of him, the Brumbies 13 did nothing against him and JJ dominated Fiangua at 13 for the Reds. 

 

Moz I have an issue with the fact that you have not even watched the majority of these Bulls games. You are wrong about JJ and always have been. JJ has been by far our best 13, for he provides more than the usual crash ball we see from SA centres.

 

As for Taute, you are again totally wrong, he was our best Bok 13 last year and achieved admiral stats in a poor Lions S15 side. This year he has been injury plagued and never had the chance to settle with the Stormers. Judging him on his years performance is unfair. The lad is 22 and will be back and will have a long Bok career. 

 

The lad has achieved at the highest level throughout his career for a reason. Two seasons as a Baby Bok and straight into the Bok side after an injury. 

 

If we want a dynamic centre pair we have to have Serfontein and JJ, we cannot have an old man like Jean and a pretender like de Jongh as the answer. If we play Jean, we will continue to achieve a 67% win record. We need to move on to these youngsters.......we need youth and agility in the midfield, not an old man on his zimmer.

 

I'd be very surprised if Conrad Smith gets selected as the AB 13. Ranger and the likes have been far superior. But chances are Smith will find favour as Jean will for the Boks

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 01:53
#28
23 Apr 2013, 01:53#28

 Mike don't lie.....there has not been a single miss by JJ that has lead to a try you lying twit.

 

He never touched Ranger, the issue was with Olivier at 12 and his wing outside him, he rushed out as Olivier had not commited and his wing had remained deep.  

 

If you knew your rugby, you would realise this very fact. 

 

Name a single tackle by JJ that has lead to a try you bloody liar

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2013, 02:15
#29
23 Apr 2013, 02:15#29

Dave in Serfontein, we are finally able to agree on a young centre. The reason goes beyond his physical play....he believes in himself and his ability to compete. He is not standing on the fringes, hoping he doesn't make a mistake. That makes him different from Olivier, Murray, Taute and, JJ, centres we have disagreed on before.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 02:25
#30
23 Apr 2013, 02:25#30

Agreed, there is no questioning Serfontein. Olivier was never going to play ahead of Jean and rightly so. Murray was an injury disaster and was never going to play ahead of Fourie. Taute we can't really judge at present as he tends to play a different position each week and is now out for the year.

 

JJ has always had the skill and is a centre convert. We can only ask for progression and that is what he is delivering and we need him to succeed as we need to find centres with clout. Jean was great in his day, was the best Bok 12 I have certainly seen, but we have to move on. He could do a job, it would be a solid job - we should be striving for more than solid.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2013, 08:00
#31
23 Apr 2013, 08:00#31

Saffex

You really are a miracle - you can find excuses for everything and your normal one is summarized in ttwo words - "it happens".   I have seen major flaws in defence when Engelbrecht plays at 13.   It did happen in the Crusaders game this year - where he was so bad - the commntators even mentioned it as extremely poor.  Two of the Crusader tries were a direct result of poor defence by Engebrecht.  

Lat year his defence was wicked and I am not surprized meyer took one har look at him and send him packing.   Listen - there were some arguments about missed tackles this year - but he did miss 8 tackles -way too high a percentae to be comfortable about.   That beside the cases where he was so far out of position that h was beaten outright and did not attempt a tackle.  You mnentioned the Ranger case - and came up with a nonsencical excuse - but it did happen twice in the Crusaders game as well - so it was not only once that it did happen.

I think that Engelbrecht remains a wing - and that is where he should play/   As a recycled center he is bound to show deficiencies and will not achive as much as he can achieve on the wing. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 12:16
#32
23 Apr 2013, 12:16#32

LiarMike, the real issue here is that you are smarting because you are too stupid to pick up on what constitutes a good player. I have said from day one JJ was the business, now he is getting favourable write ups from the scribes and you are hating it.

Your pick was Jordaan, who has been a major flop this year, culminating in him being embarrassingly exposed by Fruean. I dont think I have ever seen a centre run over like that - it was man vs boy stuff.

You are lying about his defence against the Saders, he never missed a tackle - liar It is very sad to see you resort to lying to try make a point, but the best bit is that you are too stupid to realise that in the process of lying, you are making your name mud, for it is JJ getting all the good press at this point and its as a centre not a wing. There has been no talk of him as a wing for some time now, wonder why that is.

 

JJ is twice the outside centre little Jordaan is. Jordaan is a little guy who can't live with the big boys - he needs to take a leaf out of de Jongh's book as he is smaller, but never gets run over the way Fruean ran over Jordaan. Give me de Jongh over Jordaan at 13 anyday

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2013, 15:43
#33
23 Apr 2013, 15:43#33

Saffex

Can you read at all?   Here is the stats of the Crusaders game in respect of Engelbrecht:-

Engelbrecht 0/0 0 1/2/5 10 0 0 0 1 12/2 0/0 0 0/0

See -he made 12 tackles and MISSED 2.  That was besides the two  cases where the opposing layers beat him outright and he made no attempt to tackle anybody.

You are indeed stupid.   You cottond on the one incident involving Fruean and that now becomes your bible.  All else is forgotten.   I was indeed diappointed by that incident - and said so.   I also said that Jordaan did not perform this year as well as last year and said that too.   However, he played outside Steyn and that accounted for a lot of backline problems - but you even refuse to recognise that Steyn's form is so poor - that he should play Vodacom Cup.  Biosman is poor as well - but at least he is fit and do not bugger up the backline as badly as the one-dimensional unfit Steyn managed to do.

I at least would giive Engelbrecht credit for good achievement and point out where he has problems - you do not have that ability at all.  I criticize whre criticism is ecessary - you do not want to see when your favoured players are being below par.   I think Engelbrecht is a good player - but HE SHOULD BE on the wing - not at 13.

Now quiet - put you dunce cap on and go sit in the corner where you belong.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 17:00
#34
23 Apr 2013, 17:00#34

Ah DomMike, how many more times must I tell you that your stats are a load of shit, much like your rugby brain. But best of all is your take on him not attempting two tackles at all - what an insult to a rugby player and what a stupid comment from the dunce that you are.

 

Given how well JJ is playing at centre, why would anyone want to move him to wing, well unless they were you of course and as stupid as pigshit.

 

As for Jordaan, its not so much that he missed the tackle on Fruean, all rugby players miss tackles, it was the execution of the miss that told the story. There have always been question marks against Jordaan's physicality and size at 13. Could he live with the big boys? Fruean by running straight over him, confirmed our concerns about Jordaan. He is not up to playing 13 from a physical point of view.

 

Fruean showed him for the small man he is. The only player that needs to move to wing is Jordaan. He can hide his lack of physicality on the wing. Lets hope he recovers well from his injury and returns as a world beating wing - for one thing he is not, he is not a centre - he is too small - we now know that without reservation.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2013, 17:43
#35
23 Apr 2013, 17:43#35

Saffex

I only rely on stats when it confirms what I have seen on the field of play.    I saw clearly what happened in the Crusader game and that is a fact.  Tou never look at defence - unless it slaps you in the face.    In the Crusaders game Engelbrecht did exactly the same as he did in the Ranger case - and the players just ran around him.  

Anyway Jorrdaan is out for the year and I am glad he does not need to play next to dunce inside centers anymore.   It spoiled his reputation.  By the way - his technique against Fruean was wrong - he tried the Jantjies style - and got run over.   Jantjies is a regular to get run over.   Bismarck tried to do the same with Etzebeth and he also landed on his backside.   Get it into your thick head.   Defence depends on technique more than size.  

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 18:07
#36
23 Apr 2013, 18:07#36

Ah good old DomMike, true to form - as thick as ever.

 

Bismark's technique was fine, Etzebeth just went in to meet whatever Bismark threw at him.

 

I have never seen Jantjies run over the way Fruean ran over Jordaan......it was career defining - it confirmed Jordaan was not up to playing centre

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Apr 2013, 18:37
#37
23 Apr 2013, 18:37#37

Saffex

I always says you miss about 50% of what is happening on the field of play.  Maybe I am wrong - you miss 100% of what you do not wish to see and actually only see only 20% of what actually happens.   In the Etzebeth case "it happens" - he.   Same thing happen in that case as happpned in the Jordaan case.   In the other matches Jantjies gets run ovr time and time again - and you miss all of that.   What a farce you are - ppretending to tell us about performances.   Funny- funny really and one thing you can e assured of - I enjoy reading your messages - they really are ofdd-ball and so fr remvoed from reality -that really makes it funny.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2013, 19:22
#38
23 Apr 2013, 19:22#38
Difference between a dunce like yourself and rugby man like myself, is that I point out that JJ is a class act at 13 and now the rugby world is singing the same tune. You only take on JJ is that his defence is poor and he should be playing wing. What a stupid out of touch thing to say. We move on to Jordaan where his exposure by Fruean is well and truely pointed out to you by Moz and myself, but in your stupidity you choose to ignore the truth. There has been very little positive written about Jordaan this year, I wonder why that is? Now DomMike do you spot the difference here? If not, I'll enlighten you - I know my rugby, you dont But please do keep amusing us
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