Eben Etzebeth performance for the boks in 2014

 He has been piss poor in all tests so far this year.  Old man Matfield was 10 times better in all facets of play.He needs to up his game, or we find another old man in Bakkies starting

 Yeah got to agree, since his injury he hasen't returned to full fitness and form. He lacked Physicality at times. I am sure a certain someone well disagree

  Sharkbok 
You must be kidding to sugggest a Botha-Matfield lock combination is necessary   Have you studied Botha's performance particulars in the tests he played in since last November.   If there was a player ever in the Springbok team whose performance has been piss-poor,  Botha's performance was worse.

Haven't been impressed with him this year.
All I hope now is that he get's through this year unscathed so he can get a pre-season under his belt and be ready for next year.

 I don't know Botha was pretty influential againgst Argentina in Argentina. I recall he came off the bench and scored a try. Botha is match hardened, but I agree theirs better players out their. But making the step up to Test Rugby is hard, so you can understand if Meyer sticks with tried and true, then untested and unproven. 

 Eben is a legend. Leave him alone. His combination and Matfield is the best.

I do not prefer Bakkies to start, just merely stating what Meyer's selection will be.Their are better options like Willemse

Lood Foot, got the boot after destroying the chance of winning against the All Blacks  in New zealand.

Elizabeth/Eztebeth alter ego has been playing this year so far

I'm not sure how far Peter Steph du Toit is with his recovery, but time is running out for the RWC and if Meyer still has Stephanie as an option, the EOY tour could give Meyer an excuse to rest Matfield and see how well Etzebeth and Steph can form a combo. 

He has been anything but his best but is still ten times better than physical passenger Matfield.
Etzebeth has been nullified by being taken around the ankles.
But Eden is pure class and it's only a matter of time.
The fact that he walked straight back into the Bok side after injury shows just how indispensable he is.
He is the best lock in the game when 100% fit

 Can't help but agree that he was way below his best  but just how comforting to know it will be so much better when he fires up. Meyer has nothing to lose experimenting with a new face on the YET by resting Matfield and Bakkies.

 Yup, he has been more wimp that Ka-blam! Another potential great mismanaged. Let's see if he can get back to top form.

 Eben has been out for a year he will be back sooner than later. What's the Chances of Bekker playing for the Stormers next year. Oh to see a fit Bekker and Eben playing together! Whishfull thinking I know.

If you don't have a mobile athlete like Air Matfield....you miss him, as we saw against the Bargies. If you don't have powerful, aggressive all purpose lock like Etzebeth you miss him...as we saw when the indecisive Lomp was playing.
But what we missed the whole RC was a pure power lock of the Willemse/ Flip Flop type. This absence is sometimes disguised when Alberts a hugely powerful blocky type is playing. Our mauls were not as devastating as on the YE tour.
In my view if we are playing Matfield and Etzebeth, we need an Alberts type. If we play Etzebeth and Willemse, we probably dont...but we give up lineout dominance and kick return excellence.

Oh what bullshit you don't need a mobile athlete in a lock the game has moved on somewhat since those days where the one lock was a brute the other an athlete. These days both locks need to be athletes and have the physicality to go with it. Etzebeth, PSDT, Willemse, Retallick,  Whitelock, Lood, Jacques du Plessis,  Lawes, Thomas Lavini, Richie Gray, Launchbury and the Welsh giant Luke Chartiris are the standards for the modern lock. Matfield does not come close to these guys.
The notion that Matfield provides a line out or kick take advantage is simply complete rubbish as the stats confirm.  A no point did Matfield dominate and rule here as he used to. He was par in this department with the other locks out there - FACT

Mark Andrews is spot on enough said

 Matfield should be able to give us the line out edge from the sideline. It has more to do with whats between his ears than his phisical skills. Flip, Bekker and maybe Steffie. Matfield is the backup. lood missed the boat.

Draad to say Lood missed the boat after a handful of showings is ignorance of the highest order.
Why on earth would you want Flip when we have Willemse? 
Forget Be kker

 Flip is tried and tested. There is a good case for Willemse. Lood needs more XP A fit Bekker is fantastic. He might be past it, but i would still like to see him in SR next year.

Matfield doesn't come to close to Jacque du Plessis? What utter, pig headed tripe.

 I am going to get the discussion back to the topic.   Etzebeth came back from a none-month absence from rugby and was paired with Matfield - a physical deficient player and also saw what Bakkies Botha did and that impacted on his own persformance.   Matfield cannot by the best will in the world carry ablls in traffic and he produces zip in the Tight 5.   Botha's work rate was the lowest any lock produced in years.   In tests he prouced very few line out takes - an average of 3 per game and his tackles per game equates to even less, while his ball carries was less than Matfield.   
If that is what the norm is for the Springboks - he will comply with the norm set by those two locks - since the whole team is apparently built around what they produce.   Why should he exert himself when lesser norms is expected from other locks?          

Waaaaaaahaha.  

 Moizart
 Have you ever had a look at what Botha produced in all the tests he played in since November last year?   Have you ever avaluated his stats?   If you did you will find that he was an even lower work rate player than Willem Alberts and I always thought that one was the lasiest Vetsak playing the game of rugby.
To discuss Matfield with you is like talking to a wall - no logical discussion wih you is possible and when anybody expresses an opinion - like Mark Andrews did - you go on the maligning track.   
But thn - that is what is normal with you.  that is your attitude and has always been - when your favourite players shows a downside in their perofrmances.   Morne was good because he was so good in kicking at goal - his tackling flops and other things wer ignored - his goal kciking is all that counted.  Frncois Steyn - a real Vetsak - is supporete because he is so physocal and his kciking at goal is supported.   Neve rmind his total deficiency in attacking ability, his sabotaging of the Sharks backline and his atrocious defense - that is all ignored because he is so physical.   
In the above cases -
*    you use the ESPN stats only once - and that is because it fits your argument about the number of tackles made and the number of line out takes he made - forgetting that they do not reflect the number of line outs fluffled and the qaulity of the tackles and line out takes;
*    you totally disregard the ESPN stats when it comes to th Steyns.
That is why a discussion with you about some players are a otal waste of time.

 

Bring us back to the topic Oom. You promiised you would do that but here you are widening the debate with every sentence. Talk Etzebeth....strangely we know what you think of Matfield, Botha, Francois Steyn, Morne Steyn, Generaal Steyn, Ouma Steyn...and every other Steyn.  

 The Oom has a point....I just can't seem to find it.

  Re the many Steyns LOL. 

 did someone mention Alberts?

You people  should know that in a work environment it happens that the norm in production is set by the lowest and not the highest performer.  In such an environment the probem employers have s to deal wih the lowest level denominator - and when - like in the cases of Matfield and Botha - that is not done, the norm became the level on which the lower performers function.  That i am afraid is what happened to Etzebeth in this case.   
There is ample evidence that Botha has done squat since his return to Spruingbok rugby and that Matfield has been deficient in the Tight 5 - that is the point I am making.    So if that is the norm to be applied - then I am not surprised that Ertzbeth went down in performance this year - after a very lebgthy injury period =- the norm set by Matfield and Botha.        

To blame a poor performance by Ezetbeth on Matfield and Botha is laughable. Last year Ezetbeth was playing well and his locking partner for much of the season was Juandre Kruger who is a clone of Matfield. 

Sharkbok
 Etzebeth did much better with Flippie as his lock partner than with Kruger - that is a fact as well.    Kruger was not part of the leadership group as Matfield and Botha is.   By the EOYT Kruger was out of the squad altogether - Matfield and Botha are still praised publicly by Meyer and his assistants - so they are the favoured ones.   
In any event the lack of application to the job the latter two display and the obvious favouritism shown insofar as they are concerned  - must essentially have an impact on Etzebeth.    The norm here would be - model your  performance on theirs - that is all that is required.  
 

Hahaha lessons from the Natal Provincial Administration. Let me guess OOm, you were lowest performer they never fired.  

 The NPA has bugger-all to do with this - and stop referring to a body i never worked for.   When you discuss rugfby issues - don't involve personal accusations - you stupid old so and so.   
I aked before that personal insults be eliminated - but with you it seems it is the only way you can debate rugby issue.   Y ou have no principles in life. 

Is anyone really surprised by this? How many more times are people going to believe the Cape Blowhards describing a perfectly average WP plodder as a world class sensation before they realize it's all just hot air?

This happens at least once or twice every season. Some bog ordinary WP donkey beats a tackle or scores an opportunist try and the Blowhards all clutch their tiny little gherkins and start blathering about the greatest loose forward since Rob Louw or the next Carel du Plessis.

Abby- Elizabeth is a steroid bunny with very limited skills and a weak engine who thinks he's some kind of tough guy. He trundles around the park looking for fights (with the smallest opposition players) for about 45 minutes tops before he runs out of puff and has to be subbed.

He's just the latest in the long line of overrated WP donkeys elevated to greatness by the least knowledgeable group of supporters on the planet.

Forget him. Pieter-Steph du Toit, Paul Willemse, Stephan Lewies, Grant Hattingh and Jacques du Plessis are all potentially great young locks. We don't need this Bruno lookalike . . . especially if he's going to play like Bruno.

Dear oh dear it was only the WP supporters who thought Etzebeth was great in 2013. But hold on.....here comes the egg. He was nominated among a handful of players by the IRB for Player Of The Year. SCHPLOTT!!!! 

Moz, he was fantastic last year, but has struggled this year. I still think the future lies with him and Du Toit! Lood was disappointing for me, but as usual, there is no shortage of locks in the republic, so hardly an area of concern. 

 Rooi, remind me, what has PSDT done to date, other than being a gaad prospect from the Cape, exported to KZN? Eben has been injured for a year, what did you guys expect?

What has Pieter-Steph done to date? Well he's looked like a world-class young lock prospect in every game I've ever seen him play. I can say the same for the other young locks I mentioned . . . but I can't say the same for Abby-Elizabeth. 
Apart from the fact that he's a bit of a donkey, has Abby ever completed 80 minutes?

 Youcant say the same for Etzebeth who was an IRB palyer of the year in 2013 and has spent a long time out injured this year.Rooitiwt if you cant see Burger as a great what can you see . 

PSDT has had some great games like his man of the match award last year in the Curry Cup final. Although he did seem average at the start of the season, and has become another Goosen

Stephanie seems a bit  fragile thus far. He had a great CC final. But honestly the Sharks pack were dominant that day. At this stage there are many unknowns.