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FORUM / RUGBY /  Eddie Jones

Eddie Jones

Started by becs43 REPLIES1,353 VIEWS· 05 Dec 2022, 21:40
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BE
becsPro4,378 posts
05 Dec 2022, 21:40
#1
05 Dec 2022, 21:40#1

has allegedly been sacked by the RFU with Borthwick tipped to replace him. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Dec 2022, 21:47
#2
05 Dec 2022, 21:47#2
Thank goodness it’s Borthwick and not Scott
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
05 Dec 2022, 21:48
#3
05 Dec 2022, 21:48#3

Well, that’s the story at the moment. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,226 posts
05 Dec 2022, 23:30
#4
05 Dec 2022, 23:30#4

Sounds like a short-term replacement with a contract up to the world cup, with options to extend based on performance.

A bit bizarre to announce he is fired before his termination meeting. 

Perhaps Andy Farrell will take over after the world cup. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,226 posts
05 Dec 2022, 23:30
#5
05 Dec 2022, 23:30#5

Sounds like a short-term replacement with a contract up to the world cup, with options to extend based on performance.

A bit bizarre to announce he is fired before his termination meeting. 

Perhaps Andy Farrell will take over after the world cup. 

BL
Black & Red Club Pro255 posts
05 Dec 2022, 23:33
#6
05 Dec 2022, 23:33#6

Saffex,

Thank goodness it’s Borthwick and not Scott

 I don't quite understand your comment.




I am so pleased it won't be Scott because we need him.


What is your reasoning?

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Dec 2022, 23:38
#7
05 Dec 2022, 23:38#7
Scott Robertson would turn England into a world beating side and I don’t want that to happen:)
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,226 posts
06 Dec 2022, 00:02
#8
06 Dec 2022, 00:02#8

England needs a fresh approach. They have become stale. Players are changing but the game plan and results seem the same.

Just having a new coach may bring some energy to the team, something new. 

England's game is about having forward dominance to create space before going wide. Their forward pack can rival the physicality of the Boks when in form.

Their juggernaught pack needs to get momentum by dominating the collisions and breakdown in order for the rest of the team to work well. 
At present the pack is not putting enough pressure on the opposition, and efforts seem a bit hit and miss




TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
06 Dec 2022, 09:37
#9
06 Dec 2022, 09:37#9

A bit bizarre to announce he is fired before his termination meeting.

Nothing bizarre.

It is a leaked trend, not an announcement.

Rugby at the moment is run by globalists who place the international stage over the national stage.

While clubs are submissive and compliant, they still express limits at time. The English clubs tried in the past to get rid of that coach due to his invasive and demanding policies. They failed as he was protected by an impressive streak in results.

The results are gone and this leak represents the voice of the clubs, of the nationalists who are fed up with being crushed by the globalists.

With the english national stage being crippled with the loss of two major clubs, enough is enough.

Does not mean this guy will be fired by the way, it means that clubs have expressed a deep discontentment.


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
06 Dec 2022, 09:41
#10
06 Dec 2022, 09:41#10

Scott Robertson would turn England into a world beating side and I don’t want that to happen:)

Every coach is limited by the players he has. Naming the best coach in the universe as SA rugby coach will change nothing.

Beside, coachs may prefer a full cycle to shape a team. The new coach will already be in emergency mode as he must perform at the 6Ns.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
06 Dec 2022, 10:03
#11
06 Dec 2022, 10:03#11

Boy, did Eddie go downhill fast

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 10:28
#12
06 Dec 2022, 10:28#12

England hasn't fielded a power pack in over ten years. Eddie exacerbated that, and now they look a bit lost. They have tremendous fire power, without a platform. The message seems to have been lost. What will they do now? It's hard to fathom. Whoever adapts first to the changing game will be a superpower for a long time, can they find their way? Who knows. The message was clearest under Lancaster. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
06 Dec 2022, 13:27
#13
06 Dec 2022, 13:27#13

I'm a fan of Eddie and how he manages backlines but he has never had a decent grasp of forward play. He also seem to have become more belligerent as time has gone on. Rugby people seem to like him. Although, Clive Woodward, the ultimate moaning pric has moaned so much in his column about him. Not that Clive was that much better as he too was one dimensional and found a golden moment to win the World Cup. After that, it all imploded

Very few international coaches have longevity. Eddie has been very fortunate to have the English coaching gig for 7 years. He should have gone last year, but he brought in some young players and had relative successful results with them, but he was meant to show his worth this year and he still haven't been able to motivate his players to perform and seem to be in two minds. 

I'm also shock that he hasn't been able to put a decent pack together. 

However, I don't mind if England stays shit. 

That said, England has won the U21 World Cup several times in recent times and if history is anything to go by. Youth teams that perform here normally go onto to become successful for the national side. I'm just shocked that England is not number 1 considering the talent that they have at their disposal. 

NZ youth rugby has gone backwards and it is showing in their National Squad. 

So I think Eng need to tap into those players that brought them success at age groups and built a squad that is familiar with each other. 

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 13:30
#14
06 Dec 2022, 13:30#14

Forward play and back play are both part of attacking rugby. You cannot separate the two. He understands all of the technicalities, he has a different emphasis. You can generate momentum through the backs, or the forwards. He chooses the former. When English backs get into their rhythm, they are very hard to stop. We don't let them do that very much. 

MO
MoonroverPro1,973 posts
06 Dec 2022, 14:33
#15
06 Dec 2022, 14:33#15
England were always the best team in the world under him.

The team he assisted in 2007 became his nemesis in 2019.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
06 Dec 2022, 15:26
#16
06 Dec 2022, 15:26#16

Well, I didn’t want him in the first place so I’m glad he’s gone. Taken too long, mind you. Whoever gets the job has been left with a mountain to climb. 

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 16:33
#17
06 Dec 2022, 16:33#17

Times are changing, the game is changing rapidly. England have no identity. It'll take a coach of the caliber of White to steer the ship. He was always their best option, but they blew it when it mattered most. 

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
06 Dec 2022, 16:48
#18
06 Dec 2022, 16:48#18

Oh lord no. We don’t need him !! 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
06 Dec 2022, 16:53
#19
06 Dec 2022, 16:53#19

Question: Will Jake the Snake rear his ugly head or will he stick true to his word and finish his work at the booollls. 

We know how often he has moaned to the media and when ever he got a sniffed he was very happy to dump the franchise that employed him. He doesn't have a stellar record other than his first and final year in charge. 

I'm not sure Borthwick is the answer but he understands English players, been part of the coaching setup and has done well for Leicestershire even though they are struggling a bit. The did invest poorly in Pollard and allowed George Ford to leave. 

Personally, I would love to have Scott Robinson involved with bok rugby but unfortunately Rassie likes to have his hand up his puppets arses and I don't Scott would take to kindly have another mans digest up there. 

If I was England, I would bring Robertson as Interim coach for 2 years. I don't believe any coach need more than that. 

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 17:08
#20
06 Dec 2022, 17:08#20

Jake White is the most successful, and time-tested South African coach. Nobody comes close to his credentials. He is unique in that he understands a culture, and how best to remedy their ailes.  

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
06 Dec 2022, 17:12
#21
06 Dec 2022, 17:12#21

What about Nick Mallet, won trophies with Stade, more successful than Jake and even had a stint with Italy

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Dec 2022, 17:14
#22
06 Dec 2022, 17:14#22
Jake White my arse
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
06 Dec 2022, 17:21
#23
06 Dec 2022, 17:21#23

Succinct as always, Saffex 

Cockerill has been named interim Coach.

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 18:36
#24
06 Dec 2022, 18:36#24

Mallett has scarcely been a success post-Boks. Who could forget Bergamasco at 9 against England. That's the level of thinking of this man. 

Saffex, if Jake is your arse, better you insert your head into your pants and let Jake do the talking. There's a good lad. 

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
06 Dec 2022, 18:44
#25
06 Dec 2022, 18:44#25

Mallet at best is a club coach.

Gary Teichmann was the man and captain who inspired and owned the longest Springbok winning streak.

Not Mallet

After Mallets disgraceful action in overlooking Gary and making a Stormers player Captain he has since lived to regret his stupid selection and will always be a .....

White was the best coach the Boks have ever had, just ask the players who played under his spell in charge.

The ANC hated him and SARU did not have the balls to support him.

Much like some of you Armchair Springboks.

I think White is more content to stay with the Bulls than undergo another round of International Rugby with England.


BE
becsPro4,378 posts
06 Dec 2022, 21:25
#26
06 Dec 2022, 21:25#26

This has nothing to do with Jake ! He was not on any shortlist or interviewed by the RFU. No-one here has mentioned his name. 

Borthwick is the chosen candidate, he has been set to take over from Jones after the RWC after working with him for the past seven years. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2022, 21:34
#27
06 Dec 2022, 21:34#27
Mallet inherited a winning side from Du Plessis and had a 16 test win record  when he was coach.   He was weird he hsd the best captain the Springboks ever had - Teichman - and never for 6 months spoke to him before dropping him from the side and could not find suitable player to replace retirees when it came to the push. in 2 000 after reaching the semi-finals where  the Aussies beat SA.    Was a reasonable coach while he had the inherited  players and went south when h e had to find replacements - 2 000 was a disaster and he resigned before he could be fired. 
Jake White did well enough in the 2004 tests and  in the 3 Nations each of the competitive teams won two tests and the Springboks ended up as the winners of the trophy on points scored in matches - won the trophy by 1 point.   In 2005 and 2006 he was a disaster as coach - anytime as bad as  Meyer and Coetzee were and came within an inch of being fired before the WC.  one of the problems was  that he had no idea about backline attacking play and ended up bringing Jones in as a backline advisor.    The Springboks had the easiest run ever of any team playing in the WC and in the end came to the final where the Springboks faced an aged team with very little to offer.   Smit once said they had zero attacking plan in the final and bar for a few minutes had zero chance to score a try in the match planned before the start of the final and if the one English try was allowed  to stand the Springboks by some means or another would have to find a way to score a try themselves.    Be is as it may in some ways the English played a better rand of rugby - but the Springboks won the final by goal kicks.   When it came to performances in the 3 WC finals - the 2007 was the worst performing team of the three WC final teams the Springboks participated in.
After the Springboks coaching stretch, he ended up with the Brumbies where he did some work and ended up with the Brumbies being in the finals in the first year.  He then tried to get appointed as Aussie coach and he promptly came back to SA because of "family reasons".  
He then in 2014 joined the Sharks as coach succeeding Plumtree and by a miracle win against the Highlanders the team squeezed into the semi-final where they lost badly against the Crusaders.  He was a divisive coach and 14 senior players refused to renew their contracts if  he stays on as coach.    In the end his services with the Sharks were terminated because of the poor relationship between the coach and the players in the squad - the only player he got along with was  Frans Steyn - at the time underperforming as a player.    As a result he was fired by the  Sharks  at the end of the 2014 season.   There was an excellent chance that the contract of Meyer after a disastrous performance record would not be renewed after the 2015 WC and White thought he would get a chance to be re-appointed at Springbok coach.   It did not happen as the equally incompetent compared to Meyer, Coetzee was appointed as Springbok coach.       
After two years coaching Montpellier his coaching contract was not renewed and he went to coach in Japan.    After Rupert and Monsepe took over the ownership of the Bulls they provided huge funding to the Bulls to contract players and White was appointed as Bulls coach.where he was reasonably successful as a coach with the Bulls ending up as finalists in the 2021 URC final against the Stormers.
Looking at his coaching record was a reasonable to good coach for all the teams he coached - a top class coach he never was.    In that Dave is 100% correct.                                                
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2022, 21:34
#28
06 Dec 2022, 21:34#28
Duplication                                                
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2022, 21:34
#29
06 Dec 2022, 21:34#29
Duplication                                         
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 21:53
#30
06 Dec 2022, 21:53#30

Du Plessis? Are you serious? What is it with some of you and loser worship? Du Plessis has a 37% record. He was a failure. You say Erasmus was a saviour for achieving an inferior record to the one who got his predecessor the sack, but Mallet "just inherited a winning team" from the third worst Bok coach of all time? You have a warped sense of perspective. Most of what you are saying is nonsense, and you get basic facts right, such as dates, chronology, and results. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Dec 2022, 22:08
#31
06 Dec 2022, 22:08#31
Mallet was a better coach than Jake
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 22:11
#32
06 Dec 2022, 22:11#32

Jake showed he could learn and adapt. Mallet was too inflexible. He was baffled by the cerebral coaches he faced. Always was. His punditry is embarrassing, and a good insight into lacking analytical skills. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Dec 2022, 22:36
#33
06 Dec 2022, 22:36#33
Jake learnt fuck all, he was good when he started then soon lost the plot so much so he was on the verge of being sacked SA rugby instead sent an SOS to Eddie who saved Jake’s arse and won him the WC Jake is credited with the WC victory when it’s blatantly obvious it was Eddie’s input that changed the Boks fortunes It did not help that Jake was a complete prick as well, the players soon worked that out after Jakes honeymoon period in the first two years
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
06 Dec 2022, 22:57
#34
06 Dec 2022, 22:57#34

Eddie himself stated he didn't do a lot. He observed some plays, which were largely Brumbie plays anyway. Where was the great Eddie innovation in the warmups? Or against Samoa? Until Frans started, it was same old. That was the ignition, as well as JP (a bold Jake pick) settling in. Jake was always good. In 2006, suffering over 30 injuries, he was still good. We lost several games at the death, and ended beating New Zealand and Australia back to back. Broke England's hold over us. Important strides. You are too shortsighted. His plan to rest players yielded a new crop of players who served Bok rugby for the better part of a decade, in some cases much longer. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Dec 2022, 23:14
#35
06 Dec 2022, 23:14#35
Dont lie Eddie said nothing of a sort
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Dec 2022, 23:31
#36
06 Dec 2022, 23:31#36

Jake’s record was superb in 3 of his 4 years. 2006 was the exception for two reasons. Firstly the Bok game was built around Schalk Burger who missed 2006 with the neck injury. And secondly Jake and the team were horribly distracted by the Bools attempt to oust Jake and the whole silly campaign to make a marginal p rovincial player, Luke Watson, a Springbok.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Dec 2022, 23:37
#37
06 Dec 2022, 23:37#37
No Moz two years leading up to the WC, Jake’s record was piss poor Reading the Poisoned Chalice will confirm that SA rugby wanted to sack Jake but instead brought Eddie on board
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Dec 2022, 23:49
#38
06 Dec 2022, 23:49#38
Moz but let’s face it nothing you say is going to convince me Jake was a great coach and no that has nothing to do with Luke Watson. Some of his selections where piss poor and he was never a great player manager Just like nothing I say is going to change your opinion of Rassie For me he is the best Bok coach we have had, but certainly not perfect thanks to him going AWOL after resurrecting the Boks
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
07 Dec 2022, 00:45
#39
07 Dec 2022, 00:45#39

Why am I bothering to entertain this drunk? 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Dec 2022, 02:46
#40
07 Dec 2022, 02:46#40

Dave in 2005 the Boks were 8 and 3 and we were within 2 minutes of going back to back in the TN. 

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