Elton Jantjies...Is this what Saffex calls class??

 I watched the game this morning and recorded it to disect later focussing on Jantjies who was totally ineffective again today further cementing my claims that Jantjies is only half decent against unstructured teams like Cheetahs, Force and Rebels. When he comes up against the big players with great structure, he is totally useless.

He stood deep all day and first time he took contact with ball in hand came in the 58th min. He had a very quiet game whilst Morne controlled things like a veteran. It is boring but he did it effectively. Here is what I picked up from Jantjies in the way of errors and the minute it came in.

Missed tackle on Wynand Olivier 2.07

Missed tackle on JJ Engelbrecht 2.28

Goal kick comes up well short and wide from only 45metres out 13.58

Clearance kick from 22m travels for 10 metres gain only 15. 33

Forced onto right foot, cant make clearance as any good flyhalf should, switches to left and gains 5 metres 20.27

Missed touch from penalty 30.37

Aimless kick in open play handing possession back to Bulls 31.17

45m goal kick, poorly struck and well wide 36.25

45m goal kick, struck well but wide 39.33

25m goal kick, pulled across the face of goal 42.42 (relieved of kicking duties)

First run of the game, knocked backwards 57.43

Missed tackle on Francois Venter 64.08 (requires medical treatment. Subbed shortly after)

You will find that he did very little if anything of value in that game. He was the man Dave said would get the Stormers backline moving. He stood deep, did not attack the advantage line or take the ball up to opposition. Stormers backs looked far less "dangerous" than I have ever seen them. Some nice waves of attack toward the end once result was cut and dried but this came with Duvenage in the pivot role. Hardly saw Jean and De Allende was ineffective too. No help from their flyhalf and that was the reason.

My call early on, Jantjies must go. Stick with Grant or lets see this Swiel kid. Jantjies must stick to playing against unstructured teams. 

p.s..Kolisi was often knocked backwards or gained very little metres when carrying the ball. He tried hard, he was not bad but was nowhere near as effective as last year. He did what he had to do and no more.Second year syndrome + too light = increasingly ineffective! Bring back Schalk!

boklogic

Thanks for the summary - it was very comprehensive.   That must have been the worse display any Stormers flyhalf ever gave - but our friend Saffex would obviously have an answer to that one - and accept that it would be of Jantjies sad private situation recently.

I was the only member of the Board that said all along that the Stormers made a huge mistake by leasing Jantjies from the Lions.   I said he was a liability - and a bad one at that.   Before the game yesterday I said the Stormers could win the game - but that Jantjies is problematic and could cost them the game.   Remember all the question marks I put after his name?

Let me put it bluntly - none of the four penalty kicks Jantjies fouled up should have been missed - he gave the Bulls 12 points on a platter.   There were two other penalties that the Stormers should rather have kicked at goal - but they only had one kicker in the team and that was the same Jantjies and they could not take a chance with him.   In other words potentially the Stormers lost 18 potential points because of Jantjies.   Even if he converted three penalties - the entire nature of the ggame would have changed.

There were two other bad eggs in that game as well.   Saffex will go into another shouring match about them.   They were Kitshoff and Hougaard.   I want to add something about the latter that was of particular interest.   In the fantasy game point scoring system Hougaard had one distinction - he got all of one point in total for the game.   That made him the worst point scorer of any player in the competition.   I was very worried about his performances last year and am even more worried after yesterdays atrosious performance.  

You will notice one thing - Saffx would be very quiet about the situation for the next three days and then come back claiiming that there is nothing wrong with the two players concerned and that they are class acts snd had an off day - :"remember form is temporary - class is permanent" - a term always said is used to cpver up incompetency and should only be used in cases of an odd weak performance in singe games and not in cases of continuous bad performances.

In conclusion - I hope Grant gets back in a hurry or that the Stormers will in desperation use Swiel at flyhalf - even as a 19 year old with no experience in senior rugby the latter cannot be worse than Jantjies.        

 Saffex made the mistake of trashing Morne more than what was warranted. Mike makes the same mistake as Saffex. Both lack balance.

Jantjes had a bad day for sure and cost us the match in the end as did that bad TMO decision. However objectively speaking Jantjes has also had very much better games. If Mike were a little honest he would see this instead of blowing his trumpet that something he predicted at last came true. 

Alistair made a bad mistake in lettling Catrikillis go. However Grant is back and could be playing next week. This season will, as I said, show what Jantjes is made off. The season has only just begun so Mike should stop congratulating himself in this most immodest fashion, and wait  patiently to see how things go.

Beeno

I am not ongatulating myself.  I have said for a long time now that Earl Silky Hands Jantjies is a bad proposition.  He did his normal last night and also in that his one atttribute - his kicking at goal deserted him completely.

Jantjies always was bad in defence, he always stood to deep in the pocket and he always fail in his passing game - there was nothing new last night - except that he was at his worst.   Can he get better - I doubt it very much - his problems are too bad and a snowball in hell has a better chance than Jantjies have in improving.

The Stromers can thank their lucky stars next week that Grant is back - but I want to make a bet - Coetzee will bugger up everything by playing the clueless De Jongh.    So back to zero-minus again.   In fact i am glad I am a Shark supporter - they do not have idiocy to contend with.                        

 I need to check the first two misses but apart from that his general play was good. His distribution and kicking out of hand was good. His goal kicking was poor

Saffex

Which game did you watch?   There was NOTHING GOOD in any component of Jantjies game - he was the main reason for the loss of the game by the Stormers.   Hard for you to accept but Silky Hands had the worst performance for a flyhalf for the Stormers/WP i have ever seen.   He did everything bad I mentioned previously as breing present in this playing - on Friday he made it more obvious than ever before..   

 I may need to watch this game again, but one thing that struck out about the Stormers play was that the backline was running much better than it did the whole of last season. Some good long passes from side to side of the field. It may have been the influence of Delande, or even in one play I did see Jantjies make a passwhen taking the ball really flat that was a smooth backline movement. Jean I believe is a better outside center where he has more space. Taute was mainly a crashball option although most of the time when he got the ball their was limited space and not many people behind him to pass to .

janties wasnt good last night at all, he was complete kak, so was goosen for that matter, but both will come right before the season is done. i still think janties is  a very classy player, even if he did play the worst game of his life.

i dont rate that stormers backline one bit, IMO their attack has gotten worse, which is a shame, cos so has their defence.
not sure what the who hoo haa with deallende was all about, i can gurantee that de jong will be reinstated as the 13 as soon as he is fit.
prob not deallends fault though, cos the stormes as a whole was completely poo, which is a little bit of a worry, considering the bulls wernt at their best, morne just kept them safe all game.

 Goosen kak? Are you off it? As soon as he got a foothold in the game it turned on its head and the cheetahs struck straight back. He's was better than any of the young New Zealabd Fly Halves in round 2 by a proverbial mile.

@shezza,

each to their own, but IMO goosen was crap in the first half and average in the second half. bugnling errors on his part cost the cheetahs at crucial times, like the penlaty he gave away when the cheetahs were behind their own post. his tactical kicking was poor and his goal kicks were rubbish and i watched the 2nd time i watched that game was specifically to see if their was any reasoning to my fellow bloggers here saying otherwise, the only conclusion i could come up with is that he was a saffa so any critiscim will be covered in cotton wool for a star saffas case.

i dont believe any of the NZ flyhalves lived up to their potential, but dont kill me with laughter with that silly comment about goosen being better then any NZ flyhalf in round 2.
 

as u can see for urself, every NZ flyhalf contributed something to their teams attack, offloads, linebreaks, defneders beaten, try assists, goosen did none of them.

goosen was second for the least number of meters made, barret was first, but even barret managed 3 offloads and tackle breaks, while kicking 4 from 4 with his goal kicks, comapred to goosens 50%.

every NZ flyhalf that played the game had an overall better performance then goosen, the numbers dont lie. 3 errors, conceding a penalty, and kicking 50% of ur goals is rubbish, but in NZ we dont celebrate mediocrity.
but if u still dont believe me, then why was drotske saying to day that goosen was absoloutely filthy with his performance, because he was good??? no because he knows what apparently many here dont, his form in that game was rubbish and if u compare ti to how he usually plays, its even worse.

 There was nothing wrong with Jantjies general play at all. His goal kicking was poor, so what, shit happens. We know he is a quality goal kicker and that will come right.

Jantjies had a solid game apart from the odd so called missed tackle at the start, which I am not convinced about and need to check.

Morne was no better or poorer in general play and by Jantjies standards he had a quiet game.

 @Sasuke-

Goosen was good in the 2nd half. He was the link player as first reciever for most of the plays with quick accurate passing.

Most of the best plays were from counter attacks as he was playing behind a pack that was getting smashed by the Sharks.

He also came close to scoring 2 tries in the 2nd half. He also setup the try for Sadie by creating the gap that Sadie was able to squeeze through

-First 5 minutes of 2nd half he must have touched the ball about 5 times with quick fast distribution at first reciever.

-42 minute- chip and chase which he allmost regathered, and it could have been an open try line

-50th minute- massive clearance form his own 22, goes out in the Sharks 22.

57th minute- Good pass to Sadie 

62nd minute pulls the sharks defence out of organisation and good pass for Sadie to run on and go through the gap.

64th minute- Good converison from touchline

65th minute- A quick tap penalty to the corner is taken by the Cheetas and kicked into space for the Cheetas. 

Goosens pace outstrips most of the Sharks cover defence including Paul Jordaan who is fast. 

Ndidgane just gets back in time, otherwise it would have been a try to Goosen.

71st minute- another excellant cover tackle to prevent what may have lead to a Sharks try

.

Saffen

Jantjies had a bad game - and as to the missed tackles it did happen.  Problem is missed tackles is an element of his game ever-present in Jantjies -  he cannot tackle to save his life when a player rusn straight at him.   As for standing deep - go and look how far back he was and even iif he passed the balls the recoipents could do virtually nothing with it, 

Whether you like it or not - his display on Friday was worse than that of Morne Steyn in respect of defence and goal kicking - and his other aspects were on par with that of Steyn. 

Crap, name the points of his general game that were poor. I have the games on my decoder.

Apart from his missed kicks, the rest of his game was fine - FACT

Saffex

None is blinder than him who refuses to see,

 Nope I challenge you to point out what he was poor at - his goal kicking was crap, so what - that happens

Yeah Dave, right at the start of the game. Morne gives a normal pass, not even a flat ball, to Wynand Olivier who is at full speed through contact and Jantjies might as well not even have been there. Didnt even slow him down a bit. Later in that movement, in the Stormers 22, the Bulls go wide and Jantjies finds himself defending in an outside centre position. JJ sees him, swerves to the right, jantjies dives around him making decent contact and slides straight off him .

I made sure I got this right as I record the games on my Sky decoder as they are played live at ridiculous hours here in NZL. (I only wake for Sharks games! Rest I record) I watched the game, pausing everytime Jantjies made a mistake.

 Jantjies might have had a shaky start and given his poor kicking display, a lesser player would have cracked. Jantjies did not let this affect the rest of his game, where he was solid.

The way you lot go on, one would swear he was useless - its bullshit - he distributed well, kicked well out of hand most of the time - it was a solid enough performance given he has had no pre season matches given the death of his father.

I guess for me I have seen too many "cold" games from him vs "hot!" I like a player like Butch James, Pat Lambie who are the epitomy of composure. They will turn in an above average to brilliant performance each week. Jantjies in my opinion will turn in a brilliant performance in amongst a whole lot of below par games. That is not good enough in a world where consistency is key. Bulls were not good yet they controlled that game. Stormers usually control games and against that Bulls team and the way they played, the Stormers would have grabbed that game by the throat and choked the bulls out of it.

They do this by getting to the other end of the field and kicking their goals. Percentage rugby and it works. With Jantjies at 10, they do not have a game controller I feel. For whatever Grant was, he didnt miss tackles and he controlled the game well. Kept his forwards going forward.

Now Dave, you coach this game. I am not sure if you coach backs or forwards or both so maybe there is something in Jantjies you can see through coaching that we are missing but he does not strike me as one of SA's best options at 10 and he did nothing to expell my theory over the weekend. He is a bit like Sias Ebersohn. Too inconsistent but on their day, they can win you the game. Its unfortunate that, that day does not come often enough as is shown by the season end log results of both Lions and Cheetahs.

Saffex

As a Shark supporter I hope Jantjies is playing against the Sharks in Round 3 - that is the most certain guarantee that the Stormers will lose again.  

Boklogic, I am not saying Jantjies had a good game, but nor did he have a poor one. By his standards, I reckon he will have been disappointed. I would discribe his general game as solid on Friday.

Jantjies is not a percentage player, he is an off the cuff player. Jantjies should have been a Frenchman. He lives on the edge, much like Michalak, Cipriani, Carlos Spencer and Quade Cooper. Its all about flair, creativty and instinct. Players like this should be embrased, not supressed. One has to entrust them to play it as they feel and the art is ensuring their team mates are atune to their creativity. 

Support players need to be aware of the fact that the ball could come from any angle as they seek to create space through means that are anything but conventional. Therein lies their strength for its difficult to defend against, but only effective if those around him are tunned to expect the unexpected.

Players like this are more suseptable to making mistakes, which yes, can be a liability at times, but more often than not it creates opportunities from nothing.......an asset in the modern game, where space is at a premium.

Jantjies has always shown these touches in a weak Lions side and I want to see him execute his skills in a dominant Stormers side.

These types of players are usually a gamble at test level and therefore I would never select Jantjies to start as my Bok 10, Goosen and Lambie would always start ahead of him. Jantjies is the perfect impact player off the bench, if there is room for him. 

Why have two like for like players when you can have something different coming off the bench. If you have like for like, there is no point in subbing your starter unless he gets injured at test level

This is the very reason I would always have invested in Schalk Brits as my Bok bench hooker in certain matches. He would always have made my squad as he brings something different to the game off the bench. Its about being dynamic - Jantjies is dynamic and yes is gamble.

As a coach I embrace the gamble, stuff that conservative approach

Saffex, just to make sure you get it correct next time you replay the game.

Earl Jantjies is the guy wearing the Stormers #10 jersey.

Saffex

I think that it will take a long time - if ever - for you to realize that Earl Silkey Hands is not a good flyhalf.   I have watched him playing in many games and there was consistently a number of problems in his games.   In some games he was so bad that Mitchell as a coach lost patience with his poor prformances and replaced him - leading to the campaign of Strauss and Jantjies against Mitchell.

I am going tobe blunt and write down exactly what Jantjies problems are at flyhalf - and those are fact based and continuous - noticeable in most games he played in, but even more pronounced on Friday:-

Defence

He always was a poor defender - especially when players runs striaght at him  That has happened in countless matches and is being used against him more and more.   Teams attack in the channell and runs over him with ease.

Positioning

For reasons obvious too many he stands extremely deep in the pocket - he does that in every match.   Doing that he makes it very difficult to his teammates to get over the advantage line,   In many respects he is equal to Morne Steyn in that regard.    In a few cases of broken play where he was by acciident was nearer to the gain line - like in the famous Aplon tackle case - he dropped the ball before the tackle.   The fact that he himsel never attack the gain line shows to my mind a degree of fearfulness in making contact.

Passing of Balls

Jantjies -- standing too deepin the pocket  should by all accounts have a good opportunity to effectively distribute balls - that despite the fact that he puts the receiver at a disadcantage.   However, I have to agree with Stranski that he has a manufactured passing game.   Insttead of running against towards the defenders before passing balls - he runs a few steps towards the recipient - putting the recipient under great pressure as the defenders by then is on top of them.    The same happened with his inside passes.   A backline canno function properly under such circumstances - and since his plays are predictable and he never himselfattacks the gain line - passes to recipient largely represents what is known in common parlance as :"hospital passes".    Despite your total denial of the fact - that lead to the players themselves cutting him out from passing to him in the Soweto test.

Strategic and Line kicking

Other than Morne Steyn - there is no other flyhalf in SA that makes more aimless kicks than Jantjies,   His kicks are normally way too far for effective following up of kicks and allows the opposition to run back at his team in counter-attacks or other counter-measures.   He has one real deficiencies - he jas great difficulty in kicking with his left foot and kicks made by him under pressure with his left foot is normally very poor.  Ther was one case on Friday where under such corcumstances the net gain in territory froma rleieving kick was five meters and the Stormers remained within their own 22.   A decent ffyhalf can kick equally well with both feet.

Catching of High Balls under pressure

This rarely happens in the case of Jantjies - but in one case I can clearly remember he akkowed the ball to bounce 2 meters in front of him without any attempt to catch it - because the follow-up opposing players were s 5 meters away from him.   Incidentally that particular play let to his early replacement from the bench.  I wonder sometimes about his positional play as well in receiving of kicks - unlike other fly halfs he virtually never is covering to receive opposing team kicks.

Goalkicking

This is normally his strong suit - but when under pressure he is known to miss kicks - like his last twoo misses in the Soweto test - and his total collapse in his goal-kicking game on Saturday.

In essence you said that other than his poor goalkicking he was good on Friday,   On the Test Rugby Fantasy Site Jantjies got -20 points for his display on Friday - the largest negative score by any player thus far in Super Rugby this year.   That allocation is made with due regard to all activities a player is invoved in on the field of play.  He made no successful tackles - he lost possession of the ball twice, made no line breaks,   made no advances in running at the opposition and cause no turnovers in possession.   Bad news with a poor display in evidence.

You guys are wasting your time with Stupid Dave the Halfwit.

He has a lot to say about most things but sadly one always comes away feeling as if you've just wasted the last few minutes reading his garbage. 

He should have taken this on the chin, like a man, but I guess he needs to grow a pair first. 

What an arse!!!

Shan't bother reading his twaddle any further!!

Oh please al get off your pompous high horse. Snapster makes some relevant comments and raises interesting points. Not to ever read his comments is daft. As if yours are so profound! Bwahahahhaha

Jantjes on another day woul d have booted the Stormers to victory and then what will you have said.

Some folk never learn. First they trash Morne. Then he bounces back, Then jantjes has a bad day and he is trashed. He is selected for the Boks nogal but is complete rubbish. Could it be vaguely possible folk overreating to Jantjes.

My take has been that Jantjes will battle to replace Grant at the Stormers. Grant is a very experienced operater and a deadly goal kicker.  Nevertheles I sill think jantjes can do a job for us as well. One swallow doesnt make a summer. Give the guy a chance!

Beeno

Let me summarize this issue.    I hope Jantjies is in the starting line-up for the game against the Sharks on Saturday - nothing will contribute more to another Sharks victory

GO THE SHARKS

Agree Shark, people can say this and that, but in the end, Jantjes lost the game for the Stormers all by himself. Every game in Super Rugby is a must win game, and if one player costs you even one game, then his value to the side must be re-evaluated. I do agree with Saff, in that Jantjes does spark magic from time to time, if the players around him are in tune with his game. And that is fine, but a few moment of magic, every couple of games, is not enough to cancell out the games he single handedly loses for his team. Cooper, Spencer are more dangerous than Jantjes and even though they aren't Dan Carter, they are/were much more rounded players than Jantjes. As a Bull, I am very glad he played on Friday night, but he is just too much of a liability to be relied on. The sooner the Stormers management see that, the better.

Capcap you are not in a position to comment on rugby for only a fucking idiot would tell the world that fat Basteraud is a dominating world player - what an ignorant twat you are - not to mention telling us Hougaard is talentless and Frans is kak

Refrain from rugby comments for we cant take you seriously. Stick to your thing which is a whole lot of hot air that lacks substance - its your speciality

Quite right ... He was absolutely pathetic.

He's a defensive liability as well ... I couldn't help but laugh out loud when a bozo like Olivier ran right over the top of him and kept going as if unaware of the obstacle. 

What will a Ma'a Nonu or Jamie Roberts do to him? It should be hilarious to see him defend his channel against Willem Alberts!!!

Shame!!!

And that ridiculous stance of his before he takes a shot at the posts .... and what the hell is he muttering to himself. Is he praying "Ag please let this one go over" ... it really irritates me.

Hope the Stormers keep him.