End of year tour solution

Sack Coetzee and his assistants......select Ackerman and Swys as our Bok duo and take the following squad:
15. Willie / Gelant
14/11. Ulengo / Ismiel / Senatla / Sergel Petersen / Combrink
12/13. de Allende / Kriel / Janse v/Rensburg / Frans Venter / Serfontein
10. Jantjies / Goosen / Lambie
9. Hougaard / Faf / Groom
1. Kitshoff / Nyakane / du Toit
2. Bismark / Marx / Akkers
3. Malherbe / Marcel v/d Merwe / Koch
4/5. Etzebeth / PSDT / Lood / Willemse / RG Snyman / Jenkins
6/7/8. Kriel / Jacques du Plessis / Marcel Coetzee / Carr / Notshe / du Preez / Kirsten / Arno Botha / Mtembu

 Yep let's play England with Gelant...... Sergel Petersen..... Kriel....... serfontein...... Ulengo..... Jantjies...... Groom....... Du Toit....... akker...... Marcel....... Lood.... Jenkins....... Kriel.... Not she...... And Arno the robot....... We would lose the scrums, the lineouts, the breakdowns, the kicking battle, the running game.....a full house of cards. The scary thing is you believe this stuff.

 Dave
As expected Mozart is upset because you did not include his favourites in your squad.   No De Jongh, no Morne Steyn, no Strauss, no Louw, no Habana, no Alberts.   What else can be expected from that fart who believes players under 25 are all defective and they can only come into the picture when they are over 30 ears of age.  

 Dave
As expected Mozart is upset because you did not include his favourites in your squad.   No De Jongh, no Morne Steyn, no Strauss, no Louw, no Habana, no Alberts.   What else can be expected from that fart who believes players under 25 are all defective and they can only come into the picture when they are over 30 ears of age.  

 Any team without Morne Steyn, Juan De Jongh and Willem Alberts is already a step up.
There is much in your selection that I do not agree with but lets face it, it's a vast improvement on what we currently have.

 Uhhh mozart, why (from all the ones he gave you) you chose the third option for every position??? Just curious...why would you put

Pietersen over Combrick;
Groom over Houggard and Faf;
Akker over Marx;
Arno Botha over Kriel;
Jantjes over Lambie and Goosen;
Du Toit over Kittshoff...

I mean, he gave you options and you purposely made the MOST VULNERABLE TEAM EVER available from the list. That's not giving a solution or a counter argument. That's trying to sabotage the other's.

And Saffex, I would only make 3 changes:

Rhule (in) Ismael (out)
Tecklenburg (in) Mtembu (out)


and Bismarck out because he isn't the future and we won't have him for the next World cup (I think)...


And guys, one more thing...W(here) TF is Vermeulen? I haven't seen him in ages.

 Quacky
You must know Mozart  by now - he is the site misfit and his ideas about rugby is equivalent to Jake-ball - he is clueless about the g ame of rugby. 

 Vermeulen was injured,.... I think since the June tests,... this weekend he played his second top14's game of the season

Because I am demonstrating that at least 10 players on Dave's list are not international class.....and are a detriment to the team. Im doing that by combining those players into a team and showing just how poor the team looks. Try to keep up.

 Apparentely we have the same number or more of "non-international class" players in our current squad...so, maybe it's not that bad.

 Look you are welcome to ignore all the evidence that has accumulated over the years and in this year in particular, that a very low proporion of young succesful Super Rugby players make it in test rugby. Welcome to believe that all that's required is to choose a bunch of untested newbies. You are part of the mass thought process....take comfort in that. My position is quite different. That you build a team, manage succession carefully. That you are slow to hand out the Bok jersey, because it should be special. That your tactics should be determined by your your telative competitive strengths Its an old view, but one adopted by every RWC winner in this century.

I'm sorry, but I just can't read it anymore.

The moment you said the jersey is special...and then Rudy Paige pops up in my head.

That's just too much, I can't. I'm out

 Actually the pictures of Frik du Preez, Doug Hopwood, Joggie Jansen, Carel du Plessis, Danie Gerber, Os du Randt, Joost, Habana, Jean de Villers and Schalk Burger pop into my head.

You're ignoring your mistake by throwing at me big names. I'm not stupid, I know that South Africa had and has great players.

But when the national coach selects RUDY fu*** PAIGE, that's the moment when shi it hits the fan. That selection alone cheapened the Bok jersey, big time.

 No mistake.....who said I supported the Rudy Paige selection, even though he had a decent test. I made the point that Faf should have been retained. Who said this year's debacle resembles building a core team? Not me. i predicted the debacle when it became obvious we were throwing all the balls in the air. Obvious for example when Coetzee selected his team and A team, almost universally lauded by those who now pretend they hated the teams. Pathetic stuff from a very dumb rugby public.

About the Sout Africa A team, I enjoyed almost all the selections and still do, despite the losses. Certainly were better display than the "top team".
Ackermann did what he could, despite not having a choice about the squad selection. I bet if he could, along with a competent coaching staff, things could be better right now.

NOT SAYING WE WOULD BE WINNING THIS PAST GAMES , but certainly Springbok fans would leave the stadiums with a sense of pride; knowing that their young team ripped their hearts out in the game.

This squad had nothing to prove at the start of the championship: a bunch of old timers, coaches' favorites and quotas selections. A young team brings the inexperience, but all brings the burning desire (of course we should leave a few core players to guide the team around, but gennerally in the year after the WC cycle, we should start bold)

Puleeze......Goosen, Combrink, Mapoe, Allende, Jantjies, Faf, Koch, Redlinghuis, Marx, Kitshoff, Stephanie, Kriel, Mohoje, Whiteley. All flavour of the day selections, none old, no coach's favourites....maybe one Quota player Against all these new players we started the Rugby Cup with 4 holdovers,,. Habana, the Beast, Strauss and Louw. All 0f whom may still be the best in their positions, granted they have all declined somewhat. After that we added Morne and brought back Willie because Jantjies and Goosen failed. Its all rubbish Quack. The truth is so few of our new players stepped up, the old guys did about what they have always done. Strauss and Morne won the Aussie test....indisputable. Thats the one tiny bit of flawed success we have this year. So how can it be the old guys fault when there were so few of them and others only came back because the young guys failed?

 Mozart
I can understand how Quacky feels about the BS spouted by you as if yo know and understand rugby issues.   Look dofdoos - teans are built up over years - and not in the way you want it.   Instead of building up a sustainable squad and using players regularly - your hero did the exact opposite.   He stuck with the rugby geriatrics and they gave him the ultimate prize - a loss against Japan.
Morne always was a flop and what is worse is your utter BS about players.   Start thinking about how our coaches deteriorated over the past decade and the usage of the term "Traditional SA Rugby" - so frequently used by you - has been used  to cover up the flops made by players way past their sell- by dates to remain in the team.  
You are way to stupid and prejudiced to realize why the Springbok team is at present a mess - without any enthusiasm because of a total absence of leadership.   ,  

 Mozart
I can understand how Quacky feels about the BS spouted by you as if yo know and understand rugby issues.   Look dofdoos - teans are built up over years - and not in the way you want it.   Instead of building up a sustainable squad and using players regularly - your hero did the exact opposite.   He stuck with the rugby geriatrics and they gave him the ultimate prize - a loss against Japan.
Morne always was a flop and what is worse is your utter BS about players.   Start thinking about how our coaches deteriorated over the past decade and the usage of the term "Traditional SA Rugby" - so frequently used by you - has been used  to cover up the flops made by players way past their sell- by dates to remain in the team.  
You are way to stupid and prejudiced to realize why the Springbok team is at present a mess - without any enthusiasm because of a total absence of leadership.   ,  

'Teans (sic) are built up over years.' Really? Carel du Plessis' team was formed in exactly 7 games after which the winning streak of 17 tests started. Yet another knockdown .....stay down Poof.

 Yeah ... we should bring back Bakkies, Gurthro, Matfield, Fat Fransie, JP Pietersen, Jaque Fourie and Naas Botha.
They'll pave the way to a Bok revival.

 Who are the fool here - Moffie.   Everyone following this thread who knows who are the fool and it is definitely not me.  

The fool 'are' always you.

All the players there have potential to be really good, it's much better than using players who've not got anything left to give for little to no reward (Alberts)

Ideally I'd like to see something like this

15. Willie
14. Combrink13. Mapoe12.Van Rensburg11.JP
10.Janjties
9. Faf
8. Whiteley 
7. Louw6. Kriel
5. PSDT
4. Etzebeth3. Koch
2. Bismarck 
1. Beast

Obviously over time the older players will be fazed out but we can't get rid of all the experience overnight, plus JP, Louw, Bismarck, Strauss and Beast still have something left to offer

 What exactly would that be?
JP, Louw, Strauss and Beast are waaaaaaaaaay past there best. They have nothing to offer. They in fact are contributing to our poor season big time.
Have we seen any leadership coming from them this year?
For all the worlds experience they have, how did it benefit the team this year? We've only won 4 from 9 tests. 
What did their experience and leadership do for us against Japan last year?
Nah .. the sooner we get rid of these old age hasbeen the better. They are taking up spots that could be used much better. 

 They are all obviously past their peak but all offer something
Both Louw and Strauss has some good games in the Rugby Championship, with Louw seeming to be the only one bok able to affect things at the breakdown. I'd be all for another alternative but what other fetchers do we have? Strauss is still a sound hooker, not as good as Bismark but he offers something, but he definitely shouldn't be captain.
JP is aging and has lost some gas but he's good on defence and a big ball carrier, plus meets a quota which as unfair and racist as it is, is still something that we have to take into account.
Beast is solid at scrum time, and I'd be all for Beast keeping it rtght before a more destructive scrummager like Kitshoff comes on later on.
Over the course of the year players should be fazed out, JP for Skosan/Petersen/Senatla/Rhule, Beast for Kitshoff/Smith, Strauss for MarxUltimately all this is trivia though as we have a subpar coach and oppress ourselves with racial quotas.

Saf and Quack understand the problem. Quack is a Freestater that's obvious and he is probably a youngster but understands the problem it seems more than some of the coffin dodgers...I guess he is probably a Grey Bloem product and if so is worthy of some respect.

Saf is right in some of his insights...he sees AC as a destroyer of talent...in other words although he is the type of coach that has pre-conceived ideas...has personality clashes with certain players...Silky Hands is one. Elton is talented, there is no doubt in my mind but the young man needs mentor support and it seems that Johan Ackerman can give this to him and he excels under Johan...put AC in charge and Elton confidence goes for a loop...and it seems that there are others.

Meyer and AC and Mallett of old have shown this tendancy...huge potential gets th warted by personality clashes...what I recognise in these type of coaches is that they may have some attributes but seem to lack mentoring ability...Johan Ackerman on the otherhand has deep insight and brings out the talent in the gems and gives initiative.

Both Patrick and Elton need space and freedom to be themselves and initiate but stiff, convention game plans hinder them.

Hahaha.....imbecilic stuff from Chabal. Patrick and Elton need space and freedom. Donr we all? Trouble is as we saw in the Super final, those inconsiderate Canes never gave Elton space. Just like the Nipsters never gave poor Patrick any quarter. Yep thats the trouble our opponents never give these tiny little chaps any space.....they stuff them like saisages. Unfair.

"Donr we all?"
Huh??
... and what the hell is a saisages?? Do you need an anti-bacterial cream for that?
English please, Moffie!!!