England set to be fined for haka counter-move

England's herculean 19-7 Rugby World Cup semi-final win over the All Blacks may not slide by without controversy with the victors set to be fined for their response to their opponents' haka.

Prior to the blockbuster clash at Yokohama Stadium on Saturday night, Eddie Jones' men set the tone of the night when they launched their own counter-offensive to the Kiwis' pre-match ritual.

With the All Blacks ready to begin the cry, England lined up in front of their opponents' in a V formation and had to be told to back away by officials when they moved too close to the Kiwis by crossing the halfway line.

Captain Owen Farrell could be seen smirking during the move and after the match explained: "We wanted not to just stand there and let them come at us."

Similarly, England prop Mako Vunipola admitted England knew the move would "rile them[All Blacks] up".

But England's ploy may not fly unpunished under World Rugby's "cultural ritual protocol" which states that opponents must not cross the halfway line.

Considering Joe Marler, Billy Vunipola, Mark Wilson, Elliot Daly, Luke Cowan?Dickie and Ben Youngs all appeared to be standing in the All Blacks' half at either tip of England's V, the finalists could yet be fined for the breach.

Speaking on the matter, Vunipola admitted there was confusion on his teammates' behalves who were only supposed to approach the halfway line

"(Joe Marler) said he got confused," Mako Vunipola said. "He thought he was supposed to go all the way around it and go to their 10. But because of that, he's the one who has to pay the fine.

"He dishes it out a lot so the boys would be more than happy if he has to pay it."

World Rugby will consider whether any punishment is to be handed to England late Monday afternoon.

However, former England player Stuart Barnes slammed any talk of a fine coming England's way.

"England should shove any fine up the appropriate bottoms," Barne wrote on Twitter. "If NZ has the right to the Haka, opposing teams have a right to counter it as they wish (within reason).

"England were within reason. Let every team have their own dance pregame, Michael Jackson, or a bob shuffle. Farcical."

In 2011, France found themselves fined $4000 under the same protocol after they formed an arrow shape and advanced on New Zealand while the haka was being performed.

Yep England put the wee abs in a tremble as they countered the hahahahahaha. 

Very funny really how the abs collapsed. 

Anyhow we all hope the wee abs will recover their MOJO and that Wales will be clobber them. 

Beeno supporting the wee abs in time of need

“Maybe if the ABs spent more time training for rugby and less time on practicing their haka theatrics.....”  

Yup the ability to stick out one's tongue further than anybody else does not contribute to rugby success!

What's good for the goose is good for the gander . . . and invading the territory of other countries is part of England's cultural heritage!

Gosh, you'd swear the POMS were trying to scale Donnie's wall

Exactly my problem with the rules around the Haka.

Stand there and do as you are told or be fined. It's got nothing to do with the game or preparation for the game yet somehow a player/team can be fined in regards to it? 

The Haka should be done ONLY upon invitation. 

That will make it mean something for both sides. It's supposed to be about respect. And that respect should extend to the audience, in terms of allowing them to offer the ABs the opportunity to perform their rite.

Forcing anything on anyone is not respect. It's exactly the opposite.

I think many of the Kiwis mistake ones annoyance by WR's Haka rules for a dislike of the Haka. 

I don't think many people dislike the Haka. 

How many English fans have zero problem with it but will be left with a shyte taste in their mouth because of WR's fining the English team...probably many. 

In other words, everybody loses.

Just an example. 

In the Lions series. The hardnose UK boys don't invite the AB haka for the first two games of a series. After two games the score is 1 - 1.

Prior t o the final game, the invitation comes. 

Tell me that Haka won't mean a hell of a lot more than if they had just done it three times in a row as a matter of course.

It would be electric.  

"Speaking on the matter, Vunipola admitted there was confusion on his teammates' behalves who were only supposed to approach the halfway line

"(Joe Marler) said he got confused," Mako Vunipola said. "He thought he was supposed to go all the way around it and go to their 10. But because of that, he's the one who has to pay the fine.

BS, no confusion at all. Everybody know the rules. This was deliberate to get under the Kiwi skins...and it worked....as it did for France in 2011.

Shame .. the poor All Blacks ... trying to save a little face after that hammering.

They probably lodged the complaint.

The next team to face the Haka should all gather under their posts and turn their backs to the All Blacks. Wait till they're done pulling their faces and stuff.

We saw Read and his battered face pouting at the post match interview ... and then the "coach" throwing a little hissy fit.

What a bunch of sore losers they've turned out to be.

Goooooooooooooooo Wales!!!

The Haka I believe is a Maori custom.

The Maori NZ team have all the right in the world to perform that tradition if and when they wish prior to the start of a Maori XV game.

The NZ All Blacks are not all Maori's so why are they allowed to do the Haka prior to games.

It is a form of intimidation nothing less and should not be allowed.

Proud of the English team taking a stand showing that they would  not be intimidated by all this grandstanding from the Kiwi rugby crowd.

All BS.

Up Wales, trust you guys can follow up on the stand.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LgF8IVPeR48

Please read the comments under the Haka video.

Note how many are anti-haka but even more are against the special treatment given to it.

This is extremely rare in today's world where sports psychology has only grown.

No other tier one nation wants to do anything similar to a haka. But the ABs do, and so special provision has been made.

If it really was about respect, doesn't respect begin with consideration?

WR will have to change their stance on the forced respect for cultural rites or suffer an increasing dislike for the Haka as a consequence.

It's in the haka's interests for opposition to have more of a say in when it can be performed and how they are allowed to respond.

I have no issue at all with the All Blacks performing the Haka before every game...… provided that any opposition that they play can also respond to that Haka in any way that they deem fit, just like the English team did

Imagine the Boks lining up..... with a few Zulus in full war cry dress, spears in hand......both sides advancing up to each other slowly and meeting at the halfway mark...… it would be a spectacle to behold...…

This shit about penalizing the English team is complete and utter bullshit, the All Blacks are not special and don't deserve any preferential treatment for anything.....including the "special" cultural war dance...…

To be honest, it's actually a bit sickening to think that some people would actually push for this

The whole thing is a joke...respond at will...FFS.

Moola

Do you think the the ABs should have special provision made for the Haka before each game, or that it's more respectful to everyone involved for it happen upon invitiation?

Plum, it used to be only performed when the ABs were on tour but is now done at all tests. 

I'm sure that most unions in the world want them to do it to keep up the tradition and if they objected then the ABs would have to shelve it being guests of another country. 

If the ABs were ranked lowly in the world, I'm positive no-one would have an issue with it a la Samoa, Fiji or Tonga but because they generally win, it's perceived as a psychological advantage!

Funny how when the ABs do lose, which is not often, opposition players and supporters are quick to jump on the bandwagon and shout "see, the stupid dance didn't have any effect and it never has done!".

Then when they go on another run of victories, opposition supporters are all up in arms again. 

So in answer, it should only be done with the permission of the country's Union they happen to be playing in. 

In truth, they probably don't even ask. Who would want to be the first Union to turn it down and thereby admit it gets to their players??

I think there'd be more value in it if it were rearer and generally more as the culmination of a story or sequence of events in a series or competition.

Not a good example but...If the ABs declare they'll only do the haka if they make it to the final. Or as a tribute to a player, or people. Right now it's like the rock pulling out the people's elbow at every fight. It loses value.

It is a big draw for WR. Financially the status quo is understandable.

In truth, they probably don't even ask. Who would want to be the first Union to turn it down and thereby admit it gets to their players??

Well, that's the point.

 It's not that hard to "get to" someone. Should you be allowed to? 

It's also a ritual. When human beings take part in a ritualized activity their brain chemistry changes. They are more alert while being calmer. From communication to endorphins, adrenaline and serotonin levels. There are quite a few direct benefits. 

There is also the fact this type of activity is able to produce hypnotic states. A primary influencer for the refinement of ritual in the first place. 

Without knowing, I'm sure that if I read up on the haka, I'd find that self and/or group hypnosis is, at minimum, an outcome. Likely it's the desired outcome. 

I don't know if self-hypnosis wins rugby matches. 

All i'm saying is, there is an argument for the haka having benefits.

Fine is gonna be donated to charity.their captain Owen Farrell seems to enjoy the bad boy image,esp withal his high tackling.