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Faf's box kick results

Started by Pakie20 REPLIES1,534 VIEWS· 01 Oct 2018, 15:04
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PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Oct 2018, 15:04
#1
01 Oct 2018, 15:04#1

Of the 10 kicks Faf made from the base of the ruck, these were the results:


2 x touch

1 x Australia possession, knocked on (net result scrum SA)

6 x Australia possession

1 x Australia possession deep with pressure (net result lineout SA 25m)


Only the kick that Australia knocked on ended in a regain of possession for SA.


The only other effective one was at 70:42 when a great chase by Esterhuizen (making the tackle) & Kriel supporting trapped Haylett-Petty inside the Aus 22 and they ended up clearing for a lineout to SA 25m out.


The other 6 pretty much handed possession straight back to Aus, with Haylett-Petty in particular being impressive at gobbling them up. The one at 28:34 led to a counterattack by Haylett-Petty and Genia's try.


Not an option we'd want to see too much of against the All Blacks.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
01 Oct 2018, 15:25
#2
01 Oct 2018, 15:25#2
Yes, this is what seemed to keep Australia in the game during the first half, and part of the 2nd half.
Some of these should have been passed back to Pollard who has had more time and space to assess the situation.
Short up and under are a waste of time, and this is what many were.
It is either needs to be a long kick to play for territory- or one that is high enough to be chased to make it a 50/50 situation.





JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Oct 2018, 15:27
#3
01 Oct 2018, 15:27#3
Pakie , I suggest you also evaluate the quality of the chase as if that’s no good possession loss is almost guaranteed.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Oct 2018, 15:27
#4
01 Oct 2018, 15:27#4

He was even worse in the All Black test. I don't know why we persist with it. The box kicks doesn't work for us, and we usually don't have aerially dominant players anyway. Against the All Blacks we Ned to keep hold of the ball more. They can be hurt, but not if we have to soak up that kind of pressure again. We're doing too much defending. Another thing is ball security. In that All Black test we invited more pressure with silly forced offloads and sloppy ball retention in contact. These things combined with the box kicks are not helping. 

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
01 Oct 2018, 15:37
#5
01 Oct 2018, 15:37#5
Just for you, JW:

7:31 - well weighted, good distance, HP knocks under pressure22:33 Dyantyi chases but overruns, leaving easy take for HP23:55 botched clearance kick straight to Folau28:34 way too deep, no pressure possible, HP counters and runs over Kolbe, try sparked from first breakdown33:59 not deep enough, HP outjumps everyone. Dyantyi again sort of overruns it
40:21 short kick again, HP outjumps Dyantyi65:29 too deep, easy take for Folau, only Mostert in a position to chase70:42 already described


It was a mixed bag, JW. HP was better than us in the air.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2018, 17:05
#6
01 Oct 2018, 17:05#6
Thanks Pakie that was my impression. I also thought a number of the kicks were too short....even if we regained possession, probably a 10% probability the territory gain wasn't adequate reward for risking possession loss. The Bools of old put the ball high enough to kick it far enough, landing in the 10 metre zone outside the oppo 22. And guys like Basson were brilliant kick chasers who could challenge in the air. We don't have one kick chaser today....Rassie has to address this weakness. If you can turnover 35% of the balls landing in that zone you have a weapon.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Oct 2018, 17:46
#7
01 Oct 2018, 17:46#7

Those Bulls had a 77% retrieval rate. Ndungane was also another weapon in the air. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:01
#8
01 Oct 2018, 18:01#8

Making box kicks is the most stupid thing to do and the easiest way to give possession handovers to  the opposition.  

The Bulls had nothing of the sort claimed by Mozart and AO - the Bulls were even more subject to possession handovers than th Springboks were on Saturday.   

Fact is Morne was a disaster in out-of-hand kicking - the kicks were inaccurate and aimless - totally aimless and totally counter- productive.   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:04
#9
01 Oct 2018, 18:04#9
Oh sure Tokkie the 2 time Super Champion Bools and 2009 Lions taming and 3 times NZ sweeping Boks were a disaster
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:08
#10
01 Oct 2018, 18:08#10

Incorrect. Also, be careful, you forget so soon your gaff concerning kicking and Folau. Your judgment on what constitutes a good or bad kick is at best outright lunacy, at worst the pinnacle of deceit. Unfortunately, we all know it's the latter. You make no effort to gather information or investigate a matter. You just lie. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:12
#11
01 Oct 2018, 18:12#11

As per normal - Mozart remembers things happened a decade and more ago - and bugger all of what happened subsequently.   What a load of BS - how was  that applicable during the Meyer era and more importantly at present.

The man was a failure as a coach - because he used the Mozart approach for team selection and a non-existent game plan based on the Bulls game plan of 2004.

Get back to the present and start thinking about what should happen now.   Hope you can - but I doubt it very - very much.    

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:12
#12
01 Oct 2018, 18:12#12

As per normal - Mozart remembers things happened a decade and more ago - and bugger all of what happened subsequently.   What a load of BS - how was  that applicable during the Meyer era and more importantly at present.

The man was a failure as a coach - because he used the Mozart approach for team selection and a non-existent game plan based on the Bulls game plan of 2004.

Get back to the present and start thinking about what should happen now.   Hope you can - but I doubt it very - very much.    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:17
#13
01 Oct 2018, 18:17#13
No Tokkie ....I rarely talk about Morne, but in this case he is totally relevant. The Bools may not have been a balanced team, but no other team executed the kick and chase better. And despite all your bleating it's a tactic that all teams still use.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:21
#14
01 Oct 2018, 18:21#14

What are you writing about?

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:24
#15
01 Oct 2018, 18:24#15

During 2009 to 2010 the Bulls were one of the highest powered offence in Super rugby. Their linebreaks and linebreak to try ratio was outstanding. The 2010 season was one of, if not the best, attacking sides in Super rugby history. The motion that the Bulls were a 10 man team is garbage and can be easily debunked. It was twaddle perpetuated by our disgraceful journos. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Oct 2018, 18:38
#16
01 Oct 2018, 18:38#16

Balls - another BS statement without any real substance provided.   Carry on dreaming - it would help to create fictional stories - but no facts whatsoever. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
01 Oct 2018, 19:36
#17
01 Oct 2018, 19:36#17
The context of the 2008-2010 era should be considered The Bulls had a forward pack that could run over the opposition forwards and then pull in their backs as the last line of defence. By this stage, there was so much space on the field all they had to was straighten the line, and the outside backs could line up to finish the try. 
If a forward pack is totally dominant, and they have a 9 and 10 then can kick well- they are going to dominate both territory and possession. This is turned into pressure and with that points.The up and under's the Bulls did were well-timed, and had lots of chasers- allowing them to smash the opposition to pieces.
Imagine catching a high up and under at Loftus, and seeing Bakkies and co chasing this hoping they could run over you.
Matfield was also at his peak during this era, so kicking the ball out often led to winning the ball back at the lineout. Rolling kicks for territory were often a good option because Matfield would win the ball back.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
02 Oct 2018, 02:33
#18
02 Oct 2018, 02:33#18

The Bulls of that era played total rugby. They had a 10 and 12 who fixed the opposition and created the space for the outside backs. This is where Kirchner thrived coming into the line outside 13, sometimes a little further in. It was devastating. 

The plastic fan's Interpretation of total rugby is a team filled with players who can't tackle, no distributors and everyone runs into contact becoming a cul-de-sac. Sometimes, if we are lucky, we'll have offloads squirt out like a bar of soap. It adds to the excitement of this remarkably cutting edge game when one knows not the destination of said soapy ball. Even better, all the fun happens in one's own half, as there will be no kicking. The added risk of deadly turnovers 20 metres out from the goal line adds to the tension of the encounter. There will be no forward carries ala dinosaur rugby, so the backs will be left to fend for themselves. No forwards "in the backline", they'll all be condensed in the middle of the field. We'll do it like New Zealand definitely don't absolutely do. 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
02 Oct 2018, 03:18
#19
02 Oct 2018, 03:18#19

We seem to have wandered off the subject... yet again.

Faf's kicking game is not one of his strengths so I'm not surprised about the stats Pakie presented. It has been his problem for some time now. The coach is going to have to figure out what to do about it. Turning over possession like this will not help the Boks cause at all. 

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
02 Oct 2018, 03:22
#20
02 Oct 2018, 03:22#20

The only thing that can be done is working on his technique and accuracy. Until then, it isn't a weapon to be used. Who do we have to chase who will continually threaten to win it back? We are not an aerially dominant team, and haven't been so since 2009. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 03:31
#21
02 Oct 2018, 03:31#21
Pollard's tactical kicking is also limited, so it is certainly a weak area for the Boks. 
Just don't let Willie Leroux start his pop kicks that he was doing in 2015, that were so predictable.
— END OF THREAD —

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