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FORUM / RUGBY /  Fans see me as stupid says Meyer

Fans see me as stupid says Meyer

Started by Beeno133 REPLIES303 VIEWS· 06 Nov 2014, 10:50
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Nov 2014, 10:50
#1
06 Nov 2014, 10:50#1

Well exclude me Heyneke. However I do think you miss a trick or two. Confusing the piture is the quota issue which I suspect is being enforeced on you. 


Ex Sport 24


Cape Town - Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer believes fans back home in South African view him as a dull coach who is afraid of taking chances.

Meyer was speaking at a press conference in Dublin on Wednesday when he named his team to tackle Ireland at Aviva Stadium this weekend.

According to the Cape Times, one of the questions put to the Bok coach was if he thought his coaching philosophy was one of being a risk-taker.

He said he thought he was an "unbelievable risk-taker" and has done so on many occasions during his coaching career.

"Back home, people see me as this dull, Afrikaans, stupid, conservative guy!" Meyer was quoted as saying.(Well those who battle to understand rugby would probably take that view Heyneke!)

But Meyer insisted that it was not the case. He pointed to the fact that he has always backed the young players, picking Derick Hougaard at 19, Morne Steyn at 18 (during his time as Bulls coach) and now 20-year-old Handre Pollard against the All Blacks.

He admitted it was a risk picking Pollard to start against the All Blacks, but happy that it paid off as the Boks won the last encounter between the two teams 27-25 at Ellis Park.

Meyer has also shed the notion that he is a coach with a conservative, kick-at-all-costs approach, with the Springbok backs scoring some scintillating tries over the past few seasons.

I have some issues with Heyneke but do not think he is a stupid conservative coach.

If Heyneke is Bok coach in 2016 watch the Boks fly. The old brigade will be gone and the you ng guns in full flight.

I strongly advise a number of wee abs to retire post the RWC.


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 10:54
#2
06 Nov 2014, 10:54#2

No Meyer, I just don't hang on your lips when everyone you talk about is fantastic. 


Not everyone is fantastic, some are overstaying their welcome and not the best anymore.


Some of them may have experience, but their experience is also their weakness as they can't learn new ways.


And some are not good enough.





BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Nov 2014, 11:00
#3
06 Nov 2014, 11:00#3
 Agree BB but I still dont think he is a stupid coach. He has done some good stuff but his selections are problematic . 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 11:04
#4
06 Nov 2014, 11:04#4

 I don't think he is stupid either, I just believe his selections of "experienced players" is holding his progress back.


It frustrates me that he has such blind faith in experience

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Nov 2014, 11:13
#5
06 Nov 2014, 11:13#5
 I think the major blunders in the team currently are matfiled and oupa. jannie is a question mark and certainly Redlighuys deserved abench place at least.Biggets blunders re ommissions from the squad was Willemse and Elstadt. 
Yes BB he places a very high value on experience. Perhaps too much.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 11:20
#6
06 Nov 2014, 11:20#6

Selection mistakes in my opinion.


Jannie, the longer he starts Jannie the less time he has with young tight heads. ANd he is fast running out of time. Giving a guy like Redelinghuys one match vs Italy is not going to tell him anything.


Victor, the longer he allows him to run the line outs, the less time he gives th others to become proficient.


If Ruan or du Preez were available I would have had the same issue.


Jean de Villiers, committing to making Jean his captain is undermining the developmentof our midfield.


Oupa, I agree but am wondering whether he has a quota he must fill with a certain number of starters. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Nov 2014, 11:39
#7
06 Nov 2014, 11:39#7
 Can't fault you on what you say BB you nail the problems. I have always felt Meyer has wasted some time re the younger guys. There is nothing wrong with the Bok lineout sans matfiled. I think Meyer is very concerned re winning and errs on the conservative side as he thinks this will ensure the win.If all the old players had been availble/fit I wonder what the bok side would have looked like. What sort of rugby would they pla y - the old kick away our ball approach?
Why also is Steenkamp there. Schalk van der Merwe earned a place surely.
So I am happy about some things like his more balanced approach to the game but unhappy about his selections and not building up his repalcements well enough. I sincerely hope his weakening of the pack is not going to backfire. 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2014, 11:59
#8
06 Nov 2014, 11:59#8
 
He's cowardly.

He's afraid of the unknown and doesn't like taking risks.

Only time he selects out of his comfort zone is if injuries or prior commitments force him to.

He sets too a high value on public opinion.

He needs to grow a pair.

biltonbek ... I have a question ... right now, of all those available, who would you select in the place of Victor Matfield?

You keep dissing him, speaking of his age as a liability when by rights he's one of the fittest guys in the squad, has an incredible work rate and secures us the lineout setpiece.

What gives??



BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 12:15
#9
06 Nov 2014, 12:15#9

CC, I am not dissing him, I just believe there comes a time to move on. Yes he can still win line outs, but scrumming wise he has never been that powerful, in the wide loose he has shown when he was moved to flank in one of the matches (can't remember which one it was) for the last quarter that he does have some pace and yes he isn't unfit.


But in another year's time he will be 38 and relying on him now means we will be in deep shit if he gets injured and Meyer has not given younger players chance to settle at 5.


When you body gets that old chances are you are going to get injured at some point, and Meyer is banking on him alone.


It is a shame Flip v d Merwe and Pieter Steph du Toit is injured, but Lood and Stephan Lewies could have been options.


It is also true that he has never been the most physical bloke in the Bok pack.

 

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 12:25
#10
06 Nov 2014, 12:25#10
What do we do when Matfield is injured and we have no experienced back up?  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2014, 12:48
#11
06 Nov 2014, 12:48#11
 
So what your saying is that you'd prefer us to bite the bullet now and blood the youngsters at 5 ... even if they're retreaded 4 locks ... selected out of position ... out of their depth ... just cause Matfield might get injured a little later ... and we end up with our dic-ks in our hands, cause of no suitable replacement ... right?? 

Well sheeyat brother ... why di dn't you say so??

Does that mean you'd still consider him as the starting 5 lock for next year's world cup?


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 12:56
#12
06 Nov 2014, 12:56#12

If he is in form and fit yes, but the way we are going now we'll be in deep kak if he isn't there.


I understand du Toit's injury is hampering things, so Lood is getting some game time, but you aren't going to learn how to control line outs unless you get the opportunity to play 60-80 minutes as that is how you learn how to establish dominance over your opposing line out.


These youngsters need to learn how to read their opponents and how to adapt over a match, not come in the last twenty for 2 or 3 lineouts. 


It is about creating an experienced group of second and third choice number 5's as it should be in every position

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2014, 13:10
#13
06 Nov 2014, 13:10#13
 
Fair enough .. but surely one would expect the replacement to learn his trade at club level or perhaps Currie Cup and Super Rugby level ... not at test level ... ?

You need the replacement to be skilled in that position and not learn as he goes along, playing against the top nations of the world.

That to me is madness.

Not everyone can slot in so easily. We've already seen how Lood struggled at 5.





CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2014, 13:16
#14
06 Nov 2014, 13:16#14
 
Personally I feel the only 4 lock that looks comfortable playing 5 is Eben Etzebeth.

That is where I'd select him ... with Willemse coming in at 4.


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 13:17
#15
06 Nov 2014, 13:17#15
Sure, you learn your trade at your Franchise, but Meyer and Matfield goes back a long way and has exacting standards, you aren't going to learn their standards at the Sharks.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2014, 13:49
#16
06 Nov 2014, 13:49#16
Meyer is a dull and conservative coach who sells Bok rugby short.....glad he knows it
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Nov 2014, 14:18
#17
06 Nov 2014, 14:18#17
 That's not what he said. It actually boils down to supporters, thinking that he is conservative and non-risking , getting it wrong.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2014, 14:39
#18
06 Nov 2014, 14:39#18
Glad he knows the supporters think it is what I meant. He is delusional if he thinks the supporters are wrong about that......the odd youngster being brought in by him (including the useless Derick Hougaard and Morne) does not counter the recent or continued selections of Kirchner, Basson, Fourie, Olivier, Jean, Morne, du Preez, Pienaar, Vermaak, Steenkamp, CJ v/d Linde, Cilliers, Heinke, Bakkies, Matfield, Kruger, Franco v/d Merwe, Louw, Alberts, Juan Smith, Schalk and Spies......not to mention the crash ball and kick and chase game plan, which he moved away from in his last two tests, but no doubt will probably r esort back to come Sat.   
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Nov 2014, 15:03
#19
06 Nov 2014, 15:03#19
 "......but no doubt will probably resort back to come Sat."

Is that a prediction?

How about a prediction for the test on Saturday? I have asked on another thread as well, but you are obviously too yellow bellied to make one. Unless this one falls under the umbrella "....we will get hammered week after week...." one of earlier.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2014, 15:46
#20
06 Nov 2014, 15:46#20
 Eina - Meyer must have read some of the comments made about him on this site, since his poularity asa coach does not come out in the media in general.   How would he get a feed back like that in any other way.  
Give the guy a break - he is not losing  tests in the RC  - and the record shows an improvement in that regard if one looks at stats over the last three seasons:
*   2012   -    2 wins, 1 draw 3 losses*   2013   -    4 wins,  2 losses*   2014   -    4 wins,  2 losses
The 2014 record could have been better - bar for the Morne Steyn fiasco in Perth.   The problem in both 2013 and 2014 was that he kept on with Morne - which was a fiasco in itself.
I think that we are not always fair with Meyer.   He has to pick players with due regard to injuries.   I am sure that if Pieter-Steph du Toit and Malherbe was available - players like Bakkies Botha and Jannie du Plessis may not have been in the squad.   He is also under political pressure to choose more players of colour - so lets be fair on that score as well. 
However, I think the main problem with Meyer remains - there are way too many under-performing geriatrics in that squad and he needs to rather pick other productive  players and not the geriatrics - especially since the geriatrics are not really producing the goods in any event.      

       
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2014, 16:33
#21
06 Nov 2014, 16:33#21

Look here prick......I don't read all your pathetic posts. 

 

But if you want a prediction, my guess is that we will scrape past Ireland.  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Nov 2014, 16:46
#22
06 Nov 2014, 16:46#22
 Good. That is that sorted then. Are you also sticking with your prediction of "..................the crash ball and kick and chase game plan, which he moved away from in his last two tests, but no doubt will probably resort back to come Sat. "
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2014, 16:49
#23
06 Nov 2014, 16:49#23
Yes, we are playing in the NH and dumb Meyer will resort back to the bash, crash and skop  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Nov 2014, 17:02
#24
06 Nov 2014, 17:02#24
 OK. That is that sorted then. Just one final point to clear up. What do you regard as scraping past ?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2014, 17:24
#25
06 Nov 2014, 17:24#25
It means the Boks will win by 50 points  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2014, 17:39
#26
06 Nov 2014, 17:39#26
No really give us your definition of scraping past....you are so misunderstood..  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2014, 18:02
#27
06 Nov 2014, 18:02#27
What part of 50 did you not get Moffie?  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2014, 18:05
#28
06 Nov 2014, 18:05#28
 To be fair - the Springbok wins in too amny tests were by a very small margin - even in tets they shoud have won easily.  And some of the losses can be ascribed to serious problems caused by some players - mostly the sae ones at that.
If Meyer does have a problem - it is not necessarily the ones mentioned - it is the fact that he is too loyal to some players and tends to overlok their deficiencies.   
I will gve you a definition of scraping wins - any win by less than 7 points - and there were way too many of those in recent history of the Springboks is scaping past.  Why - bcause one score more bythe opposition would have eliminated the win.   Wins by less than 4 points could be a disaster waiting to happen - since a penalty or even a drop goal is a chance of losing or drawing the game.    


CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
07 Nov 2014, 00:09
#29
07 Nov 2014, 00:09#29
 Mike I don't think Meyer has read some of the comments on him from this site otherwise he would be a dribbling mess in the corner. I have no doubts his job is a tough one and a balancing act a lot of the time. He is just fortunate to have such a laid back, understanding and sympathetic supporter base behind him.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
07 Nov 2014, 00:13
#30
07 Nov 2014, 00:13#30
 Meyer is the best coach we have had since Kitch Christie. Frame that Mozart. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
07 Nov 2014, 07:39
#31
07 Nov 2014, 07:39#31
 
Mallet must surely top Meyer.

For that matter White too.

Meyer has shown us nothing so far.

A talent pool that most would love to have at their disposal ... not used.

He needs to step up quite a bit to claim that title.

 

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
07 Nov 2014, 07:48
#32
07 Nov 2014, 07:48#32
 I am a bit partial to Nick Mallett myself.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Nov 2014, 08:15
#33
07 Nov 2014, 08:15#33
 Can any one prove that our lineouts were not just fine when matfiled first departed.Matfield's lineout contributions are another myth. 

Anybody thinking matfiled is needed is daft. This 106kg stringbean's monumental achievement has been to con so many. Away with the show pony! He is a disaster to Bok rugby and always has been. NO TEST TEAM IN THE WORLD FIELDS A TIGHT 4.His selection has messed up our pack for a decade now. Enough is enough - do us all afavour victor and retire NOW!
3 KG HEAVIER THAN BRUSSOUW - THAT IS A TEST LOCK BWAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wake up cc ya halfwit! 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Nov 2014, 08:18
#34
07 Nov 2014, 08:18#34
 By the way cerudunce windpomp what is your prediction and how about yours Moz?
I predict Boks by at least 10.

— END OF THREAD —

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