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Fickle Bok fans

Started by DbDraad28 REPLIES1,708 VIEWS· 29 Oct 2019, 18:42
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DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Oct 2019, 18:42
#1
29 Oct 2019, 18:42#1

I can't believe people are so critical of a team that just made the Rugby World Cup Final for the first time in 12 years...won the Rugby Championship for the first time and if you include the 3N, first time in 10 years. We beat the current 6N champs, the team that was No. 1 in the world a few months ago. We also beat the team that topped their pool ahead of Ireland and booted Scotty out of the world cup.

We beat NZ in NZ last year, drew there this year, ran them close in other encounters for the last 2 years.

The only negative was losing by 10 points in a dead rubber of sorts in our opener against the Mighty Allblacks...which turned out to be a blessing....

We improved exponentially since Rassie took over and almost beat the Poms at Twickers last year...but some are putting it down to luck...what a bunch of tossers SA supporters are. We don't deserve to win the RWC, but the Boks do! They put in some hard work...and it shows. Thanks Bokke and coaches, thanks for the whole team. I really hope you pull it off, you deserve it more us fans....GO MAKE HISTORY. I am behind you 100%, make or break, regardless  of the  end result. I'm proud of everyone of you!


Rant over:

GO BOKKE!!!!!SKOP GAT!!!AND THEN SOME!!!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Oct 2019, 19:21
#2
29 Oct 2019, 19:21#2

Draad

There are some members on site who for some reason hates Erasmus and also some players in the team.   This started years ago when the players were young and already showing massive potential.  In the case of Erasmus it started the day his appointment was announced - even though they were already giving a false description by his coaching career years before that,   

What is going on here of how poor  coach he is and how poor some of their pet hate players are and in case they are wrong they just added a sentence that they support the Springboks in case they win.   There is no such thing as loyalty to the team.

I support the team even though I may not like some selections.  So GO Bokke GO.        

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Oct 2019, 19:31
#3
29 Oct 2019, 19:31#3

You are confused Draad with a simplistic measuring stick. We were no better against Wales than we were last year. No better in general than last year. What has improved.....our backline  play? Our work on the deck? Maybe our defence but that was pretty decent anyway.

Your joy in victory is actually a low bar.....the wins this year, except maybe for the tie in NZ should be routine for a nation with our kind of talent.


Set high standards and things will improve. We could certainly improve in a lot of ways. And yes as you get to a WC final we can focus more on just winning....but off a tactical base that one can be proud of, not just box kicking.


Eraser has done half of what we should have demanded of a new coach, returned the Boks to playing a more physical game.....but he has added nothing new. If we had some backline nous along with the physicality we could really be something. As it is skop en donder wont make us the best team in the world even if we beat the Poms on Saturday.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Oct 2019, 19:53
#4
29 Oct 2019, 19:53#4

Here's Rassie basically making the same point:


Erasmus was asked on Tuesday what he made of suggestions that the Boks were playing "boring" rugby at the tournament.

"If one understands where we’ve been coming from – being number six, seven or eight in the world – we’ve got certain challenges, and one of them was always to redeem ourselves and become a power again in world rugby, and try to get to number one and two," the coach explained. 

"By doing that, you have to have some building blocks in place, and we’ve followed a certain route and played according to the stats, and the way the game is being refereed currently and what gives you good results in the short term and on the scoreboard.

"So, we certainly accept that there are some things in the game that we have to improve, and we take it on the chin.

"But we feel that we have put ourselves in a position to maybe win the World Cup, and we are in the final. 

"Yes, we accept the criticism, but we are also happy that we are in the position to compete for a World Cup final, which is where we ultimately want to be."


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Oct 2019, 20:19
#5
29 Oct 2019, 20:19#5

"You are confused Draad with a simplistic measuring stick. "

No, you are deliberately confusing and complicating things. Rugby is a simple sport. Yes, you need a bit of luck at times to reach the finals, but luck alone will never get you there. Give some credit where it's due instead of looking for reasons to trivialize an outstanding achievement. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Oct 2019, 20:40
#6
29 Oct 2019, 20:40#6

PS, Nam has better supporters than the Boks. Imagine some of the Boks stumbling onto this forum before the match? Pathetic, we deserve a team of losers, we don't kick a dog when it's down, we kick a team that reaches the final of a RWC...the pinnacle. Complaining to the end. Shameful. 

MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
29 Oct 2019, 20:47
#7
29 Oct 2019, 20:47#7

El draado you are smoking seriously potent shit.. literal shit. You uys talk up a storm about the most ordinary things. The wobblies are the hsittest theyve been ever... dont take my word for it listen to THEM! Kiwis are not the team they were two or three years ago and they raped your D in that game you won but your "best defence in the world" got raped again when they beat you next game. What next... the crappy draw and the other game where you were both crap. Your best defence was shit and lost you that game... I see a pattern emerging here... your crappy defence just cant handle pressure because your players are too stupid to think on their feet! Hahahaha!!! The goats are literal brain dead billy goats! Hehehehehe!! What next... argies were shit but still made you look bad next game almost getting revenge. You beat what good team? Wales??? nah they were savaged by loads of injuries and you had the ref bail your ass out just like ythe ref bailed your asses out with the argies and japs. Your team is shit your entire gameplan is the ugliest and crappiest in world rugby. I havent seen Bokkies play this crap for nearly 20 years. What happened?? You iused to whine like babies about kicking now you cant get enoiugh the worst shitty kicking ever... 2 metre box kicks that you cant win back! Heehehehehhe!!! This shit is sooooo funny... but it gets better... you cant understand what happened when we beat the kiwis... its a great mystery. Heres the thing you dumb fuckwad... we play rugby. 15 man rugby. we ripped them apart. whens the last time you retards did tht? 1856??? Your flat track bullies but we arent minnows or injury depleted. Youll get the refs on your side again but we'll beat you anyway. I cant wait to see the crying its going to make the next four years the best ever!!! Then back down the rankings you go to where you belong. I mean, shit... you got nilled as fresh world champs on your own ground with a better team that this bucket of crap.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Oct 2019, 20:55
#8
29 Oct 2019, 20:55#8

I'm not reading all that BS...you don't know your elbow from your arse...even if your tesm  manages to beat us this weekend...even beat us badly, there is still no logic to your ramblings.  Go LARP some other idiots in your fantasy land. I don't have time for your childish nonsense. Finish school and come back next RWC when your ears dried some.

MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
29 Oct 2019, 20:56
#9
29 Oct 2019, 20:56#9

Truth is hard to hear aint it. Thats okay I understand. Bokkies are the last thing you lot can feel proud about. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,246 posts
29 Oct 2019, 21:00
#10
29 Oct 2019, 21:00#10

The only issue I have with the Boks is the overuse of the box kick, and picking an exceptional player like Faff to overuse the weakest skill he has. Most of us could probably box kick better than Faff. 

Hopefully, the Boks can apply an extra dimension in the final, or just fewer box kicks. I would prefer more up and under from Pollard, and grubbers from the back. 

Then when in the opposition half, never kicking unless it is into space.



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Oct 2019, 21:17
#11
29 Oct 2019, 21:17#11

Shark. There is a huge difference between positive critique and constantly running down the side or some of the members.

I don't like the box kick BS either, but it was the best quick fix option for the short time rassie had to prepare for the RWC...that, together with the Nienaber Defence, team spirit and some other minor adjustments. 

Yet some on here valued Alistair Coetzee's contributions more than Rassie's. The mind boggles at the sheer pig headedness of it all. No congratulations, no "well done Rassie and the boys" ...a couple of excuses about how lucky we were and how kak some players still are. "Ondankbaarheid" of "Stank vir dank" has no proper translation in English. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Oct 2019, 21:21
#12
29 Oct 2019, 21:21#12

Oh cry me a river......your outstanding achievement at the WC is losing to the ABs and narrowly beating a weakened Wales. None of the other matches were worth a fig.

You want a chorus of groupies.....fine....I prefer honesty.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Oct 2019, 21:21
#13
29 Oct 2019, 21:21#13

Yes well said Draad. Carping and whinging is all we get. Take wee cc as an example. 

If we win it will be because of luck. Moans about the draw. The boring play. 

If we win true Bok fans will be delighted and give credit where it's due. 

Face facts the two best sides made the final. 

MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
29 Oct 2019, 21:22
#14
29 Oct 2019, 21:22#14

A short time eh??? I thought the Bokkies have improved loads since the previous coach??? Now he did a sticky tape job to hold it together. What did he do in nearly two years? Eddie did a better job in one game. faf aint great at box kicks but none of your other guys are good kickers either. I keep telling you but you wont listen... your coach is playing AWAY from your strengths. faffy has a good little pass on him... USE IT. Willie has a good pass... USE IT. You got speed on the wings with some size in Sbu and Mapimpi... USE IT. Counter attack off those ruck cleans and turnovers. Its so obvious. Youll still be worse than us but at least youll play a rugby that isnt so ugly it turns our eyes inside out. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Oct 2019, 21:36
#15
29 Oct 2019, 21:36#15

Hell maybe we have something up our sleeve for the final.....any ball passed sequentially to the outside centre would be unexpected.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Oct 2019, 21:53
#16
29 Oct 2019, 21:53#16

"Oh cry me a river......your outstanding achievement at the WC is losing to the ABs and narrowly beating a weakened Wales. "

Classical "glass is half empty" stuff. In 2015  we lost to NZ and Japan and we trailed against Wales till the try in the death...yet you applaud Meyer and deride Rassie....honesty you say? Like charity it starts at home...

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,246 posts
29 Oct 2019, 23:08
#17
29 Oct 2019, 23:08#17
Rassie's Boks are on the up. Winners of the 4 Nations in 2019, and into the final of the World Cup.
I did prefer the playing style of the Boks during the 4 Nations. It was a better mix of running and kicking. Fewer box kicks, and using the outside backs more often.
I wonder if Rassie will continue to coach in 2020, or hand the reigns over to someone else while he takes over the director of rugby role.
MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
29 Oct 2019, 23:10
#18
29 Oct 2019, 23:10#18

They played the same donkeyball. Always the flat track bullies what were your running stats in the tier 2 cup? 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Oct 2019, 23:44
#19
29 Oct 2019, 23:44#19

Difference is nobody called our win over Wales in 2015 an outstanding acheivement.

MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
30 Oct 2019, 01:13
#20
30 Oct 2019, 01:13#20

I think these four years have badly lowered your expectations as a rugby nation. That's the only explanation I can come up eith. 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
30 Oct 2019, 06:05
#21
30 Oct 2019, 06:05#21
Moz, how about our loss to Japan with a full strength side? What do people call that achievement? Unlike most here, I liked Meyer and I like Rassie. However, Meyer made a long term tactical error by not blooding new players early enough. A fault he himself admitted. As a result, in 2015 he had some established players that were out of form, but nobody with enough international experience to replace them with. 
Long story short, Rassie had less than two years to prepare for this world cup, Meyer had four. Meyer inherited a team that had won a B&I lions series and convincingly won a Tri nations under its previous coach. Rassie inherited Coetzee's abortion. Rassie returned to traditional Bok strengths, something that you lauded White and Meyer for, but for some almost inexplicable reason, resent Rassie for doing. 
Because of the platform created by your infantile feud with Mike, you now seemingly have to defend your pro Meyer and anti Rassie position at all costs. As result you have lost objectivity. Something I can't quite fathom, because I know you are easily smart enough to see the contradiction. 
And Red Rose, stop pretending to be an English supporter. You are a troll! And I'm certain you're a South African one too. You ain't foolin g anyone. 


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Oct 2019, 06:21
#22
30 Oct 2019, 06:21#22
Posted by: mozart (29560 posts)

Oct 29, 2019, 23:44

Difference is nobody called our win over Wales in 2015 an outstanding acheivement.


The outstanding achievement is reaching the final of the RWC, beating Wales was only a part of that. Wales wasn't close to the no1 side in the world in 2015, they were just before this world cup. You seem adamant to convince everyone how bad we are. What's with that?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Oct 2019, 06:36
#23
30 Oct 2019, 06:36#23

I think that Draad summed it up 100%.   Mozart is 100% against Erasmus as a coach and started his campaign against Erasmus the day he was appointed,   He gives neither Erasmus or his pet hate players in the squad any credit for winning matches,  He ignored Du Toit and De Allende scoring of tries and falsely blamed Du Toit for the Welsh try on Sunday.

It is as pointed out other members it is an infantile attack on Erasmus and some players by Mozart.  He now accuses the Springboks of making box kicks as their only means of attack.  I do agree - there is a problem with the execution of the kicks.   When challenged on the kicking issue - at the time the real issue was kicking and especially aimless kicking by Morne Steyn - Mozart came up with a story about kicking being 90% of the requirements expected from a flyhalf.  He defended the kicking game at the time as the only thing that counts - nothing else in backline play was important and he went so far as to say that there is no such thing as aimless kicks.   

Now suddenly he came up with box kicking as being a deficiency - despite the fact that half of the reputation of Du Preez was based on box kicking as well.   The difference is that Du Preez was a better box kicker when it comes to execution than De Klerk is.

It is ironic that when the kicking game under Meyer was criticized he defended it all out - now he leads the attack on the kicking game under Erasmus.  

What is also bizarre is that Mozart ignored one basic fact totally and that is under Erasmus the Springboks scored many more tries in both series and matches than they did with Meyer as coach.

The fact is that Mozart is really getting to be a joke on site.   

           

MO
MoonroverPro1,973 posts
30 Oct 2019, 08:04
#24
30 Oct 2019, 08:04#24

If you offered me a ticket to the World Cup Final and I knew that it would be another box kicking context I would turn it down.

Did the same for the World Cup Soccer final in JHB in 2010.Having watched the boring spanish in the semis I couldn't stomach another defensive game,gave my ticket away.

The 2014 and 2015 All Blacks vs Boks @ Ellis Park were the best games of running rugby and I would turn up for them any day.If World Cup finals are won only from within  the opponents 25 metre area then so be it,well done for the winning team.We just need to take out half the field and let the two teams play within 50m next World Cup.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Oct 2019, 08:56
#25
30 Oct 2019, 08:56#25

If we could win kicking high up and under I would be delighted. It's about winning. 

Hopefully we will see something more than up and under and driving mails. 

Let's be honest.  Should Rassie win very few Bok supporters will be moaning about style if play. 

Again I note, Gatland employed the up and under as much as Rassie. Why?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Oct 2019, 12:18
#26
30 Oct 2019, 12:18#26

Beeno

Get it straight - Mozart and Red Rise (the new user name of AO)will continue with their standard BS.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
30 Oct 2019, 12:42
#27
30 Oct 2019, 12:42#27

Again I note, Gatland employed the up and under as much as Rassie. Why?

These come to mind quickly:

1) The Boks are poor in the air (Wales got money from their high kicks, as pretty much any side that have bombed the Boks this year)

2) Lack of confidence in their own attacking ability

3) Little concern about the opposition being an attacking threat from deep ball


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Oct 2019, 00:49
#28
31 Oct 2019, 00:49#28

Bloo what Rassie is doing is not returning to Bok rugby, which I would applaud and called for when most others wanted to play expansive rugby.  It's a new brand of hyper conservative rugby....even F du Preez never used the box kick as much.

It's worked so far....but apart from Kolbe's exploits, it's hardly stirred the emotions, ugly, win at all costs rugby.


That may be enough for most Bok fans, I find it  depressing. We could be so much better without reducing our chanceto win.


And as far as success is concerned, do I believe the AB team we lost to by 2 points in the semis in 2015 would have beaten our current Bok team by more in the semis? I have to say yes.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
31 Oct 2019, 00:59
#29
31 Oct 2019, 00:59#29

I'm surprised at you Blue. You should know better than that: 

"Moz, how about our loss to Japan with a full strength side? What do people call that achievement? Unlike most here, I liked Meyer and I like Rassie. However, Meyer made a long term tactical error by not blooding new players early enough. A fault he himself admitted. As a result, in 2015 he had some established players that were out of form, but nobody with enough international experience to replace them with." 

We didn't lose to Japan with our full strength side. Kirchner, Mvovo, Steph, Pienaar, Lambie, Lood and Steph were not our incumbents. 

Meyer began blooding new players from his very first test. In fact, he blooded a steady stream of players throughout his tenure, though there was some slow-down by 2015, due to the World Cup of course. He never did "admit" to this. The only established player who was out of form was Jean, and that was due to his first start at 12, post knee op, coming in that Japan test. The big problem was that those whom he turned to largely failed to deliver. By the standards set now, those players would unanimously be heralded a success. 

"Long story short, Rassie had less than two years to prepare for this world cup, Meyer had four. Meyer inherited a team that had won a B&I lions series and convincingly won a Tri nations under its previous coach. Rassie inherited Coetzee's abortion. Rassie returned to traditional Bok strengths, something that you lauded White and Meyer for, but for some almost inexplicable reason, resent Rassie for doing."

Meyer didn't inherit a team. He lost Danie, Bakkies, Matfield, Smit, Schalk, Du Preez, Brussow, Butch, Fourie to name but a few. During his first few tests he suffered injuries to Spies, Thor, Bekker, Jean and Frans. 

Rassie on the otherhand inherited a very experienced core group of players. He added but a few new faces, how many of those stuck around? How many are core Boks? Very, very few. Aside from the wings, almost none. Don't forget, our turnaround began under Coetzee in his second year! 
"Because of the platform created by your infantile feud with Mike, you now seemingly have to defend your pro Meyer and anti Rassie position at all costs. As result you have lost objectivity. Something I can't quite fathom, because I know you are easily smart enough to see the contradiction."
Actually, Moz has merely been doing the same thing he has always done: Correct errors and lies. That's the bulk of what Pakie, Moz and I do here. There is nothing more objective than the truth. Something I have had to assert yet again.


— END OF THREAD —

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