Firing Coetzee solves only half the problem

 Coetzee is an ineffective coach and not a man to lead warriors. But he's right, there are very few players who would add to the squad we already have.....witness the failure of Mapoe, Allende, Kriel, Jantjies, Faf, Kitshoff, Mostert, Jaco Kriel, Mahoje and Kolisi. 
Sure these players were not perfectly coached, playing in a style that perhaps didn't maximize their talents. But they never made a personal mark, never did what they could do.....they bottled out. They will never be test greats, not one of them. 
 Of the players who haven't been chosen there are Senatla and Janse van Rensburg , both of whom have defensive question marks....but also have the ability, I believe, to be effective offensively. And among the backs there is Pollard who will come back and Combrink who is a safe pair of hands. 
 In the pack, despite the long list of untried players, very few will emerge. Certainly not ordinary chaps like Labuschagne or Tecklenburg. Maybe Snyman and Marx. And of course a powerhouse like Willemse should always have been there. The rest have to prove themselves.
 Coetzee made the mistake of kicking too much against the ABs and our defence was woeful... change the defensive coach immediately. But if we open up we have to find players to get over the advantage line.....Mahoje, Kriel or Whiteley won't do that for you. You need a power runner at 7 and at 12. Not Allende though, he simply can't see the field. 
 So let's hope Coetzee goes, but that is not going to be the end of our issues, not by a long shot. We need talent and our failures at age group, sevens and Super Rugby strongly suggest we just don't have the players. 

 #MzwandileMustFall

Geez Moz for an educated man you do miss the obvious......how on earth can you conclude that the likes of Kitshoff etc have failed under Coetzee when Coetzee is the man selling the side down the river with his selections and lack of direction?
But on the topic of Kitshoff and Jaco Kriel, how have they failed exactly given neither has had a start
Absolute bullshit........we have talent to burn you sound as ignorant as Coetzee is.....you said the same out our young talent under Meyer who by the end of the WC was forced to play a young side which took the Kiwi side to the wire
Your take on our young talent is ignorant and mirrors that of our failing coach
Why is Ackerman able to produce the goods at the Lions with these youngsters, while Coetzee chooses to ignore them or play the modern way?  

its a pretty fiction that we have more talented youngsters than other countries. Did you watch the junior WC games? Man we were so mediocre.

I'm not talking U20 I'm talking the talent we have playing CC and Super rugby......I have followed for 30 years and we have never had this kind of depth in talent....there have always been 3 or 4 quality players in each position, these days there are double that.
On the topic of JWC, did you see how poor the Kiwi side was not making the play off's for the first time in their history......same applied to the poor Oz side.
Does that make NZ short on young talent?
Did you see what the SA schools side did to England, France and Wales this year......thrashing all the sides by huge margins......even the SA schools A side put over 30 points over the full strength England side

 Nope that's great to hear about the school's side, in 5 years we may have some talent. None for the moment.

 Dave, this thing about talent you bang on about...
We produce no more or less talent than Oz or NZ....the glaring difference is that we don't coach the skills to match. For crying out loud there were senior players who crashed-balled rather than pass....reason being they lacked passing skills....could not trust their hands....even the highly thought of Jean De Villiers had poor hands.
We don't have coaches who can drill skills into pubescent heads...we simply DON'T have coaches with any skills at any level. They hold onto the pretenders for years before they are forced to pull the pin on them.
Question in point...how do you rate Gary Gold?

Polynesian players dominate world backline play......we have none. Our discussions would be more informed if we accepted that obvious fact. But we choose to pretend that's not the case. So where is our Folau, Kerevi, Naholo, Leinert-Brown.....we have maybe Janse as a power runner, who else? We have no backline player who would make the NZ team.....not one. It's a talent gap. There is also a coaching gap, but its the smaller issue.

 Mozart
You are stuck on the Polynesian players like a broken needle.   Sure they are good - but there are also exceptions to that category.   
To call that our backline malady is due to lack of ability/talent is largely crap as well - utter crap.   There are two problems with our backline and those are -
*   the selection of deficient players - that is the fault of the coach as well; and*   the poor backline coaching by the coaching staff - coupled to a serious defective and outdated game plan.
The priority is to use the physically adequate players and that exclude players like De Jongh, Mapoe and even the out-of-form Habana; as well as to get the right half-back selection.   Both Morne Steyn and Jantjies are no-no's - and that is a fact as well.
The backline player usage has deteriorated for years now - it was even present in 2007 - when Jake White got Eddie Jones to try and do something about it.   Since then it was going downhill faster and faster.     The last comprehensive rugby coach we had goes back to Carel du Plessis who tried to change the psyche in 1997 - after three months the Springboks beat both the British Lions and the Aussies b y the widest margin ever - a record still standing today.  
Du Plessis at the time said the Springboks failed to score tries and that deficiency had to be eliminated and it is still the problem today.   Dud coaches like Pieter de Villiers, Meyer and Coetzee cannot identify that problem and adjust their ideas to that end.  So the problem is with the stupid game plan of the coaches and their coaching limitations.   
We should not sulk about the Polynesians - we should work with our own players to contain the Polynesian issue - to just sit and sulk about that one and not try and do something positive about it is just stupid and shortsighted.     Nobody fit into the stupid and shortsighted category more than Meyer, De Villiers and Coetzee do.          

 Firing Coetzee and hiring a Jones type solves our problem altogether. 
Gone are the elderly players like Beast, Strauss, Louw, Alberts, Morne and Habana.
Gone are the quotas like Mohoje, Mbongnambi, De Jongh, De Allende, Mvovo, Paige and Kolisi.
Gone are the useless players like HouGat, Jantjies, Lood De Jager, Jesse Kriel and Willie Le Roux.
Gone are selecting players out of position. 
Gone is the no game plan approach.
Gone is the leaderless approach.
Gone is aimlessly kicking ball away.
Gone is the awful attitude. 
In comes the young and vibrant ... the hungry and passionate ... the talented skill we have an abundance of. 
In comes merited players of colour.
In comes proper on field leadership.
In comes a comprehensive game plan where actual an@lysis took place prior to each match. 
In comes blooding talented youngsters and developing depth. It's all good with Coetzee gone.





   

 Agreed! The sooner the better!

(but I'd keep Le Roux, when he's inspired he causes real havoc in the opposition)

 Usually, supporters fall back on that selection game: they have in their sleeves better players, better line ups, better game plans.

So often, when their wishes are granted, that their men are selected without bringing the expected results, they bring new better players, better line ups, better game plans.

All this to avoid facing the obvious fact that their team is not up to win.

SA rugby is loser rugby. SA is also a country where children are dying of malnutrition.

In the past, SA excellent men have squandered resources to buy themselves a face.

The resources to renew, to change SA rugby are no longer there.

The conclusion shall be that professional XV rugby must be stopped. Supporters cant achieve it and will cling to a priviledge to lose. Their players must be bestowed on the priviledge to lose.

 The truth hurts

Yes we shouldn't sulk about the Polynesians.....we should devise a plan to starve them of the ball. Not as you clowns suggest, run at them in our own half risking turnovers. The first step to devising a winning strategy is to make an honest assessment of our strengths and weaknesses. All I see is embarrassing delusion....silly school boy stuff.

 A plan requires players to be applied. SA players do not have the skills to play a ball conservation game.

SA is still on the idea that harsh tacking to destroy the opponent is the path to victory. NZ made quite a lot of work on the collision side of the game, tackling is no longer what it was.

As to polynesians, how many of them in the last NZ squad? That is blinding oneself.

SA rugby is loser rugby. It is kept afloat with that quota story that sort of keeps justifying the practice of professional rugby.

In SA, children are dying of malnutrition. So the inclusion of non white players is mandatory. Priviledged whites clinging to their right to lose would be unbearable.

 To answer your question 4 Polynesians in a starting backline of 7 by my reckoning.....same for Australia.

 That is 4 out of 15. And NZ capability to chain up phases was decisive. NZ 4 was instrumental in all determining tries.

No it's not....it's 4 out of 7. Nobody is saying Polynesian players have changed forward play, even if there are many great Polynesian loosies. It's back play they have changed.

Yep Denny we have more talent than ever at our disposal but have been lacking in the coaching department with the likes of Meyer, now Coetzee as Bok coaches......Ludeke, Gold and Coetzee as Super rugby coaches.....we were being sold down the river.....nothing has changed at Bok level sadly but at least we have seen changes in the right direction at the Bulls and Stormers with Marais and Fleck taking over.
Sadly Fleck is still learning his trade but we know from how he played the game, we wont see the conservative approach advocated by Meyer and Coetzee
I read an interesting article by Bashford who was an assistant coach at the Sharks under Plumtree.......he is good mates with Plum and spent plenty of time recently in NZ feeding off what they do.....he spent time with most of their Super rugby sides.
He says the big difference between SA and NZ players, is not talent but attention to details with reference to the basics.....he says that formal training sessions by Kiwi sides are much the same as SA sides but its after training that things are different. He says SA players go off and kick or muck around whereas Kiwi players refine the basic skills.....he used Fekitoa as an example.....he said initially he struggled to pass off his left hand so would spend hours after training working on this.
Our biggest issue is that there is no uniform way of playing amongst the SA provincial sides.....and with that a seamless move to test rugby....take the Lions who play an attacking style......move those players into the Bok conservative plan and they are lost
There is no thought process in how we do things....the board must have known that the way forward was playing the Kiwi way, evidenced by our Lions side......if that is the case why choose a coach like Coetzee who historically embraces the conservative approach.....its ludicrous 
Ackerman has shown the way, Marais is taking the Bulls in the same direction as is Fleck with the Stormers and the Cheetahs have always played it that way. Only the Sharks under average Gold are being let down. With the talent we have and these coaches, we would be heading in the right direction if we had the right man as I Bok coach.....so no matter what happens at provincial level, its always going to fall flat with Coetzee.
As for talent....hell just look at the locks for instance......never have we had such quality depth in numbers.....Etzebeth, PSDT, Lood, Paul Willemse, RG Snyman, Jason Jenkins, Jacques du Plessis, Lewies, Ruan Botha, Mostert, Jean Kleyn, JD Schickerling......its crazy.....the same applies across the board 

 I read recently about how if it was wet the ABs would come out early and start drills to get used to the conditions .As Saffex says attention to detail.And given the Bok propensity to kick why dont they have a proper drill for exiting their own 22 ?

 Coaches and teams have known about the ABs superior fitness for years, why haven't they taken action before? It must be something to do with the AB players as we all have physical limits no matter how much training we do. 
I base this on my own experience. I ran two marathons & in spite of improved training in preparation for the second marathon my time was only a few minutes better. Basically my body couldn't do much better regardless of the training. So, the ABs have highly skilled players but also players with the capacity for higher fitness levels than most teams in the world.

The most valuable player in the Oz/Pom series was Billy Vunipola and the Poms won with forward play and kicking, .....exactly what the Boks did last week. NZ and Oz have the best outside backs in the game enhanced by Polynesian players. Playing wide open rugby against those two teams is not a winning strategy......Eddie Jones gets it.

 Playing restricted rugby without ball in hand against any team is rank lunacy and Jones is not a fool.  Kicking aimlessly and handing over possession to the opposing team is the craziest idea ever - but that is the idea of how the game should be played - what a farce.