MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Nov 2016, 07:54#1
...he came unscathed through the Pom test, despite doing nothing and throwing a forward offload when a simple pass was on. Now the combination of this ordinary player and the slow witted Allende is being talked up. Sadly Italy probably wont expose this nonsense, and if Wales dont blow up this silly notion it will take a long time to set the record straight.
.
Happy is the flavour of the day player who comes in late in the season. He can pretend he is a real Springbok for 7 months.
18 Nov 2016, 08:07#2
Well, it's good to see him there. He should have been in the mix a long time ago.
Just a pity he's not playing outside Janse van Rensburg. You know ... that defensive liability that should have been replaced with Fats Fransie at 12 against the Barbarians.
I believe that if he's left to settle he could well be the flavour of the day for a little longer than 7 months.
Still prefer Vorster at 13 though.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Nov 2016, 09:36#3
Just a pity then that you were always howling for Mapoe. Stupid.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2016, 10:24#4
Mapoe at least is a better option than Fat Fransie is - the pot calling the kettle black.
18 Nov 2016, 11:33#5
One is never sure who'll make the step up to test level. Mapoe was brilliant all season long and the obvious choice.
We need to fill the 13 jersey and to date all we've seen there is the likes of JJ, Taute, Serfontein, Kriel and now Mapoe. The position is still open and so an opportunity has been forwarded to Franscois Venter. I'm hoping he'll make it his own so that we can move on.
Selecting a chump like Fats Fransie who can't even impress at club level for the national side is absurd. At least pick those who have a little talent. Not some wannabe waste of time.
Serfontein was a wizard at junior level yet dead average when it came to playing with the bigger boys, especially at test level. Even so, he was solid at 13 and a lot better than any of the others we've seen so far. I would have him in the mix. If he was left to settle at 13 we may have seen something special but alas Meyer thought it best to dump him for the useless Kriel.
To me the man for the job is still Harold Vorster as he's proven himself so far at Super Rugby level to be a class act. I can only imagine what kind of powerful combination he'd make with Janse van Rensburg on his inside.
Sadly it seems he's not a favourite of the quota coach and so we sit with the brainless hog of all hogs, Damien de Allende.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2016, 12:41#6
We had problems at 13 since 2012 when Meyer became coach. In 2012 Meyer picked Fat Fransie at 12 and De Villiers at 13. It nearly killed the career of De Villiers and lucky for him Fat Fransie was injured and he could move to 12 - with a list of 13's to follow.
Under Meyer we had afterwards Taute, JJ Engelbrecht, Fatter Jacque Fourie, Juan de Jongh (the AWOL master), Serfontein and De Allende at 13 before Kriel was picked. None of them never made the grade. The AWOL master was so bad he was never picked by Meyer again.
Fourie was atrocious as well. In the test he played he carried the ball 9 times for a 13 meter territory gain. Mozart was hysteric with delight when he was selected - but he was just about on par with Engelbrecht and Taute.
The best of the above lot was Serfontein - but the backline never really functioned while Morne was at flyhalf. So we had no real record of how th success rate would have panned out.
I would think that the solution would be to play Vorster at 13.
However, the problem remained the flyhalf - no centers can function properly with -
* a deficient flyhalf; and* a system where 70% of the balls never reaches the flyhalf and is passed back to the forwards.
Another problem is the emphasis of Meyer and now Coetze on the issue of kicking of balls. Both those two believe that a kicking game for territory is all that counts. However our kicking game is so bad it is basically just a means to hand over possession to opposing teams.
My problem remains the flyhalf - if flyhalfs are allowed to decide themselves as to what must be done for maximizing of benefit for the team the backline would start functioning better.
That is where the wheels in general came short under Meyer. The idea is with both Meyer and Coetzee is the ball must be passed to forwards (circa 70% of balls passed) by the scrummie. As if that was not enough we had Morne as flyhalf in 2012, 2013 and occasionally since then and if there is one thing Morne cannot do - it is to make decisions and to vary play. Morne does not attack the gain line - stood so far back in the pocket resulting in total neutralizing of the backline.
Pollard initially did much better - but then fell into the Meyer game plan - not allowing him to play to his true ability. Lambie is also at least a thinking flyhalf.
Goosen brought a breath of fresh air into the team when he came from the bench on Saturday. It is amazing - but over the last three months the Springboks only scored tries when Goosen was in the backline. If he does not score tries himself he assist in the scoring of tries, In the last 4 tries scored by the Springboks - he scored two tries and had been credited with two try assists. But then Mozart is not ever in the habit of supporting scoring of tries - it is foreign to his idea about playing of rugby.
Lets face facts the Springboks had played 315 minutes without scoring a single try - the last try before Saturday was scored by Habana in the AB away test early in the game. For the rest the Springboks did not score a single try in the rest of the RC and only managed two tries on Saturday after Goosen came from the bench and ignored the Coetzee BS imagined game plan which actually means there was no game plan at all.
To sum up I am with you on the Vorster issue and am looking forward to his return to the game next year.

sharkbok
Captain23,262 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,262 posts
18 Nov 2016, 14:17#9
A Solid player at best, a Curry Cup player at worst. Mapoe was in much better form- and should have combined with Rohan.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Nov 2016, 16:02#11
Point taken Venter and Stepfontein are 12s not 13s. Trouble is neither of them has any weapons. They are in fact both bog ordinary.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2016, 17:03#12
Mozart
They may be bog-ordinary - but your hero Fat Fransie is even worse.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2016, 17:03#13
Mozart
They may be bog-ordinary - but your hero Fat Fransie is even worse.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2016, 17:03#14
Mozart
They may be bog-ordinary - but your hero Fat Fransie is even worse.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Nov 2016, 18:00#15
Frans isnt my hero....but he is a Bok hero. Won the WC.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2016, 18:34#16
That was NINE Years ago - start thinking of the present - please. By the way he was my hero too until he was so bad for the Springboks in 2012 and for the Sharks subsequently. Most people has accepted he is not Springbok material since he damaged badly his reputation over the last four years.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Nov 2016, 22:53#17
I'm not interested in most people. Most people voted for Zuma. Most people believed Trump would never make it. Most people believed Jessie Kriel was headed for a great test career.
19 Nov 2016, 08:07#18
Fats had a good 2007 ... and then fell away to nothing.
He was on a high during the 07 WC. Everything he touched turned to gold.
He has never seen that kind of form since. If he was the Frans of 2007 I would slot him in without a second thought ... but he's a one hit wonder and that's all he'll ever be.
Venter is comfortable at both 12 & 13. Vorster is much the same. A special talent.
Most centers are comfortable at either 12 or 13 ... never both ... and playing them out of their comfort zone upsets their focus and rhythm.
Look at Jean, as so nicely pointed out by Mike. A good 12 but a poor 13. Same goes for De Allende. A better 12 than a 13.
DON'T play Janse van Rensburg out of position. Don't move him elsewhere just to fit another player in. Place them where they're hot and leave them there.
We all saw how the brilliant PSDT struggled at 7. Muscle memory is a toughie to change. It takes time.
I would continue with Venter at 13 and leave Janse van Rensburg at 12 where he's had a great season this year.
It's just logical.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Nov 2016, 09:09#19
Mozart is again mixing up politics with rugby - but he cannot be blamed for that. The Zuma idiocy started when Mbeki became too unpopular for some members of the ANC. They went for a crook and they are regretting it ever since. The DA desperately wants to see Zuma staying on as President. He is their best vote-getter.
The ANC is in serious trouble. There were 13 by-elections last week and the ANC got less than half of the votes they had in the August elections (21 000 as against 46 000) and in wards not won in August the winners percentage went up drastically - in one case from 50% of the votes casted to 70%). Even though the turnout is much lower than in full elections (there was a 20% decline in the recent by elections) the other 30% represent loss of support. If that is emulated throughout the country the ANC will be lucky to get 35% support in 2019. We will have to see what happens over the next year.
Back to rugby - CC dealt with the issue clearly above. I do think Fat Fransie's support on this site is limited to Mozart and one or two of his cronies.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Nov 2016, 09:09#20
Mozart is again mixing up politics with rugby - but he cannot be blamed for that. The Zuma idiocy started when Mbeki became too unpopular for some members of the ANC. They went for a crook and they are regretting it ever since. The DA desperately wants to see Zuma staying on as President. He is their best vote-getter.
The ANC is in serious trouble. There were 13 by-elections last week and the ANC got less than half of the votes they had in the August elections (21 000 as against 46 000) and in wards not won in August the winners percentage went up drastically - in one case from 50% of the votes casted to 70%). Even though the turnout is much lower than in full elections (there was a 20% decline in the recent by elections) the other 30% represent loss of support. If that is emulated throughout the country the ANC will be lucky to get 35% support in 2019. We will have to see what happens over the next year.
Back to rugby - CC dealt with the issue clearly above. I do think Fat Fransie's support on this site is limited to Mozart and one or two of his cronies.