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FORUM / RUGBY /  Flyhalfs of the Future

Flyhalfs of the Future

Started by clevermike13 REPLIES558 VIEWS· 27 Sept 2013, 23:21
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Sept 2013, 23:21
#1
27 Sept 2013, 23:21#1

I still have a problem with Earl Silky Hands Jantjies.   For every good pass he makes - he makes three bad ones.  Passing balls to nobody or forward or just not in such a way that it was contributing anything to the game.   His defence was no good either - hanging back hoping that somebody else will to the tackling.   Problem is the Lions were all over the Sharks in forward play and gave their backs a surfeit of clean good ball - yet they did not win the match.   And then Jantjies got injured and went off and the backline seems to improve as a result.  

 

On the other hand we have seen Zeilinga this afternoon - he was absolutely brilliant and scored 20 of the points of the Sharks - that try of his was real poetry in motion, absolutely  brilliant.

 

Catrakillis helped WPO in their win today  - he was brilliant and his drop kick sealed the match for WP.   Cannot understand why WP is starting with the average to poor Coleman at flyhalf.

 

Of the CC flyhalfs at present playing Zeilinga is by far the best - followed by Catrakillis and the unpredictable Jantjies. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
28 Sept 2013, 00:10
#2
28 Sept 2013, 00:10#2
Silky hands is so scared that he is going to get tackled that he does not concentrate when he passes.

 
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
28 Sept 2013, 01:28
#3
28 Sept 2013, 01:28#3
 Mike, I called Fred Zeilinga very early on. Before most okes knew of him as he had just made the Sharks team.
I wont often make a call on a youngster because a lot can change in a year but I did with Zeilinga. Every so often you get a young player that comes through that you know is going to be "special" like Frans Steyn was, Serfontein is...Fred is up with those players. When I was still in Durban, I watched him at Glenwood High and you could tell from there he was a stand out. He was actually too classy at that level and consistently turning in match winning performances and thats when you know the bloke is special.

2 more seasons or at least a full super rugby season at 10 for the Sharks and I think he will be ready for higher honours.I feel for Lambie, even at the Sharks now, because I am not sure if he is going to play at 10 anymore. They may pick him due to experience but he is not seriously being considered as a Springbok long term flyhalf. With SP Marais at fullback, Lambie might find himself at 12 or even the bench. 
I think Bok honours has actually damaged Lambie's game. He has lost his mojo and we hardly see him play anymore!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2013, 01:58
#4
28 Sept 2013, 01:58#4
 "Man that Heineke is stupid and conservative....why isn't Zeilinga in there for the one dimensional Morne".....thinks the OOM as he stews over a Cheetahs loss at home to the useless Stormers. Outthunk again by Coetzee.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
28 Sept 2013, 02:09
#5
28 Sept 2013, 02:09#5
 Many years ago having a few frosties at Collegians in Durbs was Keith Oxlee, Tony (Spots) Egner and Tim Cox I asked Keith a rather silly and difficult question for him...who was the greatest flyhalf ever...a really stupid and tactless question especially to a guy like Keith who indeed according to John Gainsford was the best ever...Keith without the slighest reaction said Hugo Porta by a mile...I tend to agree with him...but it showed the character of the man..he never waivered...shows his extreme and genuine humility as many people would have put him first. I think if Keith was alive today he would have difficulty in weighing him up with Dan because it would be a hell of a difficult question...as much as DC is my hero , I would still go with Hugo Porta...an absolute perfect flyhalf. One sees plenty of talent around today, Zelinga looks good, Lambie, Cruden, Wilkinson (over the hill now) and Goosen are in there but it will perhaps be many decades before one finds anyone that can compare.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2013, 02:12
#6
28 Sept 2013, 02:12#6

 Mozart

 

Don't talk tripe - the youngster is good on CC level - but before anybody can consider him on higher level - he has to prove himself first on Super 15 level,   He did some things tonight inclusive of scoring a brilliant try such as a player like Morne Steyn never did on CC level or for that matter any level.

 

But he has to prove that he belongs and have to perform first on Super 15 level, whereafter a really objective assessment of growth and development in the game  can be made.

 

I never do what you do - write off a player before you have seen him or try and find fault with him early on in his career - without any objectivity or based on personal prejudice.  

 

  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2013, 02:30
#7
28 Sept 2013, 02:30#7
The only thing I find fault with OOM, is your pathetic bias against the current Springbok team. You are a disgrace.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2013, 03:10
#8
28 Sept 2013, 03:10#8

Mozart

 

I am not biased against the present Springbok team - I am just a realist that recognise that most players in that team was nowhere to be seen as top performers in 2011, 2012 and 2013 and that they have been  losers  in the past and they will be losers in future.

 

Performance should be the norm and there are players in the team that failed miserably in key matches such as the Super 15 semi-final and also in the Eden Park game.  

 

Because I try and be objective make me very unpopular with members of this site like you - who are so prejudiced you cannot see when players you support under-perform.  

 

I said I think that the Springboks will win tomorrow - not because they are so good - but because the Wallabies have not really performed well in other tests they played in this year.   However, I do have reservations about the team and am not over-optimistic about a  convincing win - leave alone a win with a bonus point.  

 

One thing is for sure - they will lose next week against the All Blacks.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2013, 04:31
#9
28 Sept 2013, 04:31#9
Meanwhile the guys you want in the team can't produce in the CC. The trouble is you have no clue how different test rugby is from the S15, let alone the CC. And then there is the uncomfortable fact that we have one (losing) finalist in the S15 in the last two years.The Boks are performing ahead of our CC teams.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2013, 05:07
#10
28 Sept 2013, 05:07#10

Which players I want in the Springbok team is not performing on CC level and did not perform at Super 15 level?   Please give me a list.

 

Also tell me where the players in the Springbok team has proven that they are the top players in their positions in SA and also why they are - since some of them flopped on Super 15 level this year and in fact produced nothing of note over the past two years - even more so on international level than they did on lower levels .

 

How come Meyer has in his squad has players who flopped in Super 15, who flopped on CC level this year and even a player who cannot make the starting line up of his club team - other than where the club has injury problems. and then flop on club level 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2013, 07:30
#11
28 Sept 2013, 07:30#11
The laughable thing is you were picking the Boks to beat NZ in NZ....I wasn't, I understood the challenge. But now in a complete 360 you say they have no chance against NZ at home....one couldn't make up your utterances, they are that illogical
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2013, 10:19
#12
28 Sept 2013, 10:19#12

Mozart

 

I know you are the one who are illogical.   I did say clearly that they would lose against the All Blacks and they did - badly so.   It was not only the fact that they played for about 50 minutes with only 14 men - that was bad enough - but in the whole match some of the players I have identified as being the poor  performers - performed poorly.

 

Morne's out of hand  kicking game was diabolical and Jannie Du Plessis missed tackle after tackle - tackles that should have been the responsibility of the loosies.   In the 30 minutes they had the full team - Bismarck had to do the fetching - the loosies were nowhere in sight.  The line outs was also virtually all concentrated on only one jumper - Etzebeth.   

 

What amazes me as that you cannot see what is wrong with the present team - you constantly harp on Engelbrecht - while championing the useless De Jongh - who played in a few CC games - and like in Super 15 - was one of the poorest players in the Stormers and WP  teams.  No other players are at fault  - only Engelbrecht.  

 

The problem is that you are prejudiced against a lot of players and you do not hesitate to constantly show virtual hatred of some players in what you write on this Board.   I don't get personal and hate players - I say clearly - also based on statistics - when players under-performed.   That makes it different.   I try and prove my point - you try and make points which you cannot prove by attacking players you don't like.  

 

We are going to see a repeat of this catastrophe next week - I have no doubt of that.    

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
28 Sept 2013, 11:26
#13
28 Sept 2013, 11:26#13
 Zelinga looked good last night and has all the right attributes to become a good fly half, but the true test will come in the super 12. That said, the sharks seems to start playing a really good Brand of rugby.
I also like Maurnitz Boshoff, I don't why he is waisted full back when he is clearly the better flyhalf. I'm still not convince on Jantjies, flashy player but doesn't have the mental strength. He does take the ball flat but also gives a bunch of hospital passes.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2013, 11:46
#14
28 Sept 2013, 11:46#14

kingcorn

 

True enough about Boshoff as well - but the guy I really liken at full back is SP Marais.   Really has a lot more to offer than our present full back - the clueless Kirchner.   While Kirchner was poor all through the Super 15 season - played very well for the Kings.   In a way he reminds me of Ben Smith - really a guy with a rugby brain to augment the required physical skills.    

 

 

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