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FORUM / RUGBY /  For England to win this week, they have to lose; By Sam Taulelei (The Roar)

For England to win this week, they have to lose; By Sam Taulelei (The Roar)

Started by Just_win12 REPLIES195 VIEWS· 11 Jun 2014, 19:44
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
11 Jun 2014, 19:44
#1
11 Jun 2014, 19:44#1

The All Blacks over the past three to four years have developed a game where they will often surrender possession and rely on their defence, kick return and aerial ability.

This allows them to counter attack, beat the defence and score points.

So it’s uncommon to find the All Blacks in the positive ledger when reviewing match statistics. Statistics are often not an entirely accurate account of how well or how poorly they played.

Usually the All Blacks exploit their line breaks and convert them into tries, so these statistics are glossed over.

But since Stuart Lancaster and Steve Hansen have taken the reins of their teams, a curious statistical pattern has emerged in the three Tests that have been played between these two sides. Admittedly we’re dealing with a small sample, but nevertheless the team that leads the match across the usual statistics loses the game.

Everyone remembers the 2012 Test at Twickenham, it was a great English victory. On that day England out All Blacked the All Blacks. England trailed the All Blacks in several categories. New Zealand recorded 53 per cent possession and 55 per cent territory and 23 more ball carries.

However England made 10 clean line breaks to the All Blacks 7 and their breaks finished deep in the red zone where the All Blacks conceded six penalties and a drop goal. Both sides did score three tries but despite England trailing for possession and territory, they created more opportunities to score and took them.

Last year at Twickenham, the All Blacks surrendered territory and possession to England, carried the ball 92 times to England’s 135 but made 5 clean line breaks and scored three tries. England only recorded one clean line break and one try, but they were able to create pressure forcing the All Blacks to concede penalties to keep them in touch.

Last Saturday, New Zealand trailed England in territory, possession, line breaks, ball carries, defenders beaten, offloads and metres gained. The difference was the higher number of turnovers England conceded,18 to 12.

Tactically England were better than the All Blacks, but they couldn’t convert any of those line breaks into tries.

When the biggest margin during the match was only six points, it was always going to be a try that would break the deadlock. Currently the try tally favours the All Blacks in their last three Tests against England by seven to four.

This Saturday is shaping up to be a fascinating contest, with so many more variables to contend with from both teams. What will be equally fascinating to me is if this statistical pattern continues. Does the winning side need to lose the major statistical categories to have a real chance?

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
11 Jun 2014, 19:52
#2
11 Jun 2014, 19:52#2
Well the title is interesting. Of course we have the ongoing celebration of the 2012 victory (congrats Poms... once again). And we have the conclusion that of all the stats IT IS THE SCORE BOARD THAT COUNTS (please take note Beeno).
It is also being able to take your opportunities when they are there and adjusting as needed. If you are overpowered in the tight five & cannot win the line outs consistently then you have to find another way to win. The ABs don't deliberately try do worse than the opposition in the stats thinking this will magically translate into a try, lol
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
11 Jun 2014, 20:08
#3
11 Jun 2014, 20:08#3
english fans have adopted the saffa blame the ref mentality, so this game will only go to england losing cos of the ref, or england winning cos they are the only team who deserve to win.

watch the windows at forsyth bar all smash and break when steve hansen yells release the kraken and the All Blacks run onto the field.

robshaw and his boys will then turn their white shorts brown when they hear kaino scream, FE FI FO FUM I smell the blood of an Englishman. Be he alive or be he dead. I'll grind his bones to make my bread,

SU
Sunnyjones123Rookie20 posts
11 Jun 2014, 20:46
#4
11 Jun 2014, 20:46#4
If you look at some of England's line breaks, NZ stopped 3 possible tries through illegal play. Nonu's tug on Haskell, Nonu's tug on Tuilagi after Eastmond's break and Fekitoa not releasing after Jonny May's break.

Its not like you get plenty of chances vs NZ if we scored those 3 tries we probably would have won
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
11 Jun 2014, 21:12
#5
11 Jun 2014, 21:12#5
Isn't it like that an almost all rugby games (not just those in which NZ teams are playing)? 
On balance, we just have to accept that some infringements are seen and penalized some not & we all hope it evens out and the best team wins. If not we walk away shaking our heads & saying well next game we will beat them. That's the way I remember such games when I was playing and how it is now I am a spectator.  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
11 Jun 2014, 21:19
#6
11 Jun 2014, 21:19#6
I would like to see the All Black forward pack get slapped around again like last week when they were all wishing they were married to Julian Savea.
The off the ball stuff is frustrating allot of fans, as with the other deliberate professional fouls and infringements. 
The amount of breaks by England, and they did not score- something was just not right. 
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
11 Jun 2014, 21:59
#7
11 Jun 2014, 21:59#7
 interesting article but next saturday this strange stat btwin Lancaster and Hansen should be broken and the AB impose themshelves over the poms in both the major stats of the match and the score.
The AB need (and I think they will get) a big win and this way we could be at least one week without hearing the saffas and poms complaining, whining and crying all the time about the ref.
Although something very big is needed for that matter (something like last year's at Ellis Park, eg) I trust the AB to achieve it once again.

Let see if Read is fit and can leave behind this concussion issue he's bearing all the season. I would like to see Barret starting, IMO he's now one step forward Cruden.
My team if Savea and Read are fit would be:

1. Crockett   2. Coles   3. O. Franks

4. Retallick   5. S. Whitelock

6. Kaino   7. McCaw   8. Read

9. A. Smith   10. Barret

12. Nonu   13. C. Smith

11. Savea   14. B. Smith   15. Dagg


16. Mealamu   17. B. Franks   18. Faumuina   19. Tuipulotu   20. Vito 

21. TKB   22. Cruden   23. Feikitoa/Jane


I leave out Messam who probably deserve to be there also but Kaino was huge last weekend, he was everywhere and has regained his 2011's power (with him in the mix there's no other loose trio in the world that can match the one of Kaino-McCaw-Read). Vito was really powerful also the few minutes he was on the field, seems that he has totally fullfill AB coaching's requirements.


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
11 Jun 2014, 22:13
#8
11 Jun 2014, 22:13#8
Abasquefan: yes another huge challenge for the ABs for sure. The Poms looked good  in the first test, will be reinforced by strong players and will smell blood. Abs will have to really up their game.
The AB team was just announced (bench wasn't listed in the article I found). You can see it by clicking on AB starters for second test
Hansen has decided to stay with those he selected for first test except for one change in lineup (Dagg out Smith at FB & Savea on the wing).
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
11 Jun 2014, 22:32
#9
11 Jun 2014, 22:32#9
 @JW,
just saw your thread when I finished my post here.

well, I supose that there will be no changes for the bench and though I would have preferred to see Barret starting, that's a great team.
can't wait to see this math, it's gonna be a huge one. Last weekend there was no possible comparison with the other matches in terms of intensity (hope this weekend the welsh can offer a little bit more because the french seem they won't)
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
11 Jun 2014, 22:51
#10
11 Jun 2014, 22:51#10
Abasquefan: the French have made a lot of changes so same ol' story we never know what to expect. Part of the  pain and thrill in watching them I guess, lol
SU
Sunnyjones123Rookie20 posts
11 Jun 2014, 23:26
#11
11 Jun 2014, 23:26#11
 England's pack will be stronger, more dynamic with Hartley, Lawes, Wood and Billy Vunipola coming in. 
Billy Vunipola is a monster he's been a revelation for us at 8, it will be the 1st time he'll play with Tuilagi (2 of our biggest ball carriers) 
Then you have Danny Care who sets the backs alight with his pace, quick ball, quick thinking and Farrell at 10 who controls the game, puts people in space and knows how to close a game out.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
11 Jun 2014, 23:47
#12
11 Jun 2014, 23:47#12
 Not sure about Farell. He seems like a Jonny Clone. Good kicker, great defence, but I have not really seen him get his back-line running. 
Cipriani I think is better with ball in hand
SU
Sunnyjones123Rookie20 posts
12 Jun 2014, 00:06
#13
12 Jun 2014, 00:06#13
Farrell has improved alot in his attacking play, he doesn't just kick the ball all the time anymore hes more rounded.

Its a real shame George Ford got injured he was penciled in for this tour many in England see Ford at 10 and Farrell at 12 where they played at England youth teams together

We have really struggled with the 12 position ever since Will Greenwood retired. Kyle Eastmond looked class in his first real test (Previous 2 vs an Argentina team missing key players) but Lancaster will bring in Twelvetrees/Burrell possibly one to play alongside Tuilaigi or shifting Tuilagi to the wing.


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