CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2013, 09:59#1
Since all players involved has already reported to the clubs and in fact has been involved in some club games - we are now in a tiituation that we have 9 foreign-based players in Meyer's squad. If I am not mistaken that means that foreign-based players (9 in total) are more than any of the local franchises have in the squad.
This to my mind is totally unacceptable and should be avoided. Meyer cannot argue about it - the playing styles and game plans are different in the NH countries compared to the SH countries. Our players will have to change their style - when playing in Europe and then they have to come back and play in tests next year. This while the rest of the players have to play a much different game in Super 15 next year. However, the NH playing style and game plan - with a concentration on tight forward play and kicking may find flavour with him.
Looking at the squad - at least five of the 9 foreign-based players should not have been in the squad at all - there are better local players available - and selections like Steenkamp is just ridiculous in the extreme. However, in the case of a number of locally-based players Meyer has also selected sub-par players - who on reputation MAY qualify - but in actual performance produced nothing ar all during the past year.
One will have to see how Meyer select the team to start next weekend. I believe that - like the EOYT he has painted himself into a nasty little corner - where options were severely limited - he may end up with an unacceptable team - thus ending up with a team losing games we should have won
I think that Meyer in any event has gone dilly and h is a dead loss as a coach. Like Sasue said - they are laughing their arses off - because of Meyer's selections.
NTntanga
Club Pro336 posts
09 Aug 2013, 11:45#2
Hey mike, I'm with you on this one. NZ and OZ are way better in managing the selection of foreign-based players. Meyer has left the door open for the maxi- exodus to Europe and Japan, any player can leave the SA shores and still be in contention for the Bok selection, a thing that previous coaches would have dared to even think of, and look at us now! I honestly feel for our home based players who are still waiting patiently for their chance to come. However, it does look to me that some of them will have to wait too long.
Steenkamp wont even last 20 minutes in the field.
Louw is fine, and I think he deserves a call, Habana is a machine and has to be there.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2013, 14:11#4
Wardad
Welcome to the site. First of all you are 100% correct in what you said. Secondly Meyer is not a coaches ass - or perhaps he is.
Lets just take on example of a total miscalculation by Meyer - and it is Steenkamp. The latter is contracted by Toulouse Club. He is hugely overweight and does not make the Toulouse starting line-up anymore - but the idiot coach still have him in his squad.
The self same squad has a variety of useless local players as well. I cannot believe a so-called coach can make those mistakes - but the opposing teams should be happy to play selected by our moron coach.- .
I was initially a Meyer supporter - but his selections are so incomprehensible and amateurish - I have given up on him.
POpolyboy
Club Pro601 posts
09 Aug 2013, 15:09#5
It has been commented on another site that the selection of foreign based players will weaken the domestic competition and block the advancement of young up and coming players. Initially when AB selectors said they would not select overseas players there was a fear that it would weaken the AB's which hasn't happened. SA need to follow this example, have faith in the younger players and their development.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Aug 2013, 15:48#7
Here is an approach from a country that has had similar issues.....but for much longer. Note the realism:
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Selecao coach Mano Menezes selected a foreign-based squad for his training camp in September...
Brazil coach Mano Menezes has called up only foreign-based players for the national team's training camp in September.
With the Euro 2012 qualifiers slated to start next month, Menezes plans to use the international break to polish his team. However, he has not called up any of the Brazil-based players so as not to disrupt the Brazilian clubs.
Daniel Alves of Barcelona, Alex of Chelsea, Marcelo of Real Madrid, Alexandre Pato and Thiago Silva of Milan and Robinho of Manchester City all have been named in the squad while Inter youngster Philippe Coutinho received the nod as well.
Speaking at the press conference, Menezes said, "We opted for a week of training due to the options we had at this moment. We understood that for this moment, it would be ideal to take advantage of the period to get to know the players. We are going to walk towards that direction.
"The most coherent option would be to utilise the players that play for European clubs. It would be tiring to take players from Brazil in the middle of the Brasileirao. I always said that we would have a moment in which we would call-up more players that were in the last World Cup. I think this will happen more in the next year. In this initial period, we will have more new players.
"We will keep doing the work and getting to know the players. You only truly know the players in the day-to-day work. For this moment, we understand that the best is to train. In the future, we will have friendlies against less known teams too. But for this moment, between a friendly against this type of opponent and training, we thought that we would benefit more from training.
"In every group that I've worked, I like to hear the players' voice. If you want them strong in the matches, they have to be comfortable. A player does not have a button to turn him off when you don't want to hear him. You can't just impose what you think to a group of players."
Menezes also gave his take on Coutinho, "Philippe fits that group of players that are very young and talented, with the condition to contribute to the idea of this more creative style of football. I think he already showed this talent at Vasco. He had his first appearances at Inter, showing a lot of personality."
The Brazil coach once again stated just why he thinks Neymar should not leave Santos for Chelsea this summer.
"I always think that if we could, the players should stay longer in our clubs. It's good because of all that happened with Santos, rescuing the Brazilian style that we were longing. I understand and respect the financial issue. But I'm very happy with the ending to the story."
Here's the full list:
Goalkeepers: Diego (Almeria), Gomes (Tottenham)
Defenders: Daniel Alves (Barcelona), Rafael (Manchester United), Thiago Silva (Milan), David Luiz (Benfica), Henrique (Racing Santander), Alex (Chelsea), Andre Santos (Fenerbahçe), Marcelo (Real Madrid)
Midfielders: Sandro (Tottenham), Ramires (Chelsea), Hernanes (Lazio), Fernandinho (Shakhtar Donetsk), Douglas Costa (Shakhtar Donetsk), Lucas (Liverpool), Philippe Coutinho (Inter), Carlos Eduardo (Hoffenheim)
Forwards: Alexandre Pato (Milan), Andre (Dynamo Kiev), Hulk (Porto), Robinho (Manchester City)
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2013, 16:10#8
Mozart
I do not care what Brazil is doing with regard to their soccer player - I care what Meyer is doing to SA Rugby. There may be some reason for selection of foreign-based players in some key positions - if those selections are performance-based. But to select iffy players and failures like Steenkamp - is a recipe for disaster.
You apparently do not take note of the problems created by this dolt coach of ours insofar as differences between NH and SH playing approaches are concerned - and those differences will kill us in future. Soccer does not have those playing style differences so notable in rugby.
I can see why it is necessary to select players like Habana and Louw - Meyer would be silly not to - but the rest should be nowhere near the Springbok team. Meyer is making SA Rugby the laughing stock in the SH rugby circles - so let us get further punished and then he may get fired - that being the sole consolatiion.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2013, 20:10#10
Ceradyne
Interviews on TV - they played in pre-season games to prepare for the coming season.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2013, 23:19#14
Beeno
I have no problem iif Meyer picks the best players playing overseas when ABSOLUTELY necessary. However, what he picked was 70% non-essential players that could be replaced locally without weakening the team. The local players will even strengthen the team - because Meyer's picks are no better than they are.
Meyer really made an asshole of himself when he picked the latest squad - and that is a fact. It will cost us dearly in the Championship
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2013, 23:24#15
Ceradyne
I go on what was said on local TV when they interviewed some of the players. Do not have details of the matches played. However, there was a training camp until yesterday and none of the nine foreign - based players were present. They are coming to join the squad on Monday. This is what I call bulklshit of the first order by our dunce Coach.
10 Aug 2013, 02:18#16
OK. Let me try again. As you know I am in the UK and have obviously not seen the local SA interviews. So let me ask you again. Which players have already reported to their clubs and have already played been involved in games for their clubs?
Bear in mind that the only one, as far as I know, that has reported to his club is Juandre Kruger whose contract with the Bulls has rub out at the end of June or July. Morne Steyn, Zane Kirchner, Chilliboy, etc are contracted at the Bulls until the end of Oct. I do not know about the rest. This of course excludes the likes of Ruan Pienaar who is contracted abroad for some time.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Aug 2013, 02:31#17
The part of the interview I saw was with Morne Steyn and he mentioned Vermaak and Krichner s being in France with him already. I think they got released early - because they would only feature in two Bulls games in CC in any event - since they are in the Meyer squad.
I stand with my statement - why the hell do we need foreign-based players unless they are absolutely outstanding in the Springbok squad. All but two (Habana and Louw) are easily replaceable with local players.
10 Aug 2013, 02:47#18
The French Top14 kicks off next weekend and I am quite sure that the SA players would not have been released to start playing, unless they are not contracted in SA anymore. The last I read was that the Bulls have tried to keep Juandre Kruger for longer but the French would not budge and he has to report as soon as he is not needed by the Boks. The French also tried to have Steyn et al at the start of the Top14 but the Bulls, this time, refused because of the players' involvement with the Boks. I am not too sure when they could have been involved in any games for their clubs. I do not deny that they could have been to their clubs in France but I don't think that they could have played for them yet. If at all, it could have been nothing but warm-up games but I doubt it.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Aug 2013, 10:34#20
moolaa
The problem in SA is not the issue of depth - we have more than any other country - but the issue of SA coaches. We seem to always get the worst when it comes to coaching. Where on earth would you get national coaches like Pieter de Villiers and Meyer - and franchise ones like Coetzee and Ludeke?
I do not take their selections as logical or any reflection of players available for selection. Meyer is absolutely sold on selecting players form anywhere if they have been associated or are still associated with the Bulls - that is how he can come up with duds like Steenkamp - who is not even in the starting line-up of his club sider anymore. Other better players do not have a snowballs hope in hell to get selected.
The second hand up in SA is the political bogeyman. There needs to be a certain percentage of Black players in teams - so it is easy - pick players not worth their salt just to make up the numbers. Meyer is a sucker for that and he is not prepared to base his selections on merit and tell the politicos SA comes first - their aspirations afterwards.
The third scenario is that Meyer is a sucker for the Bulls game plan he developed in the period he was bulls coach and especially when the Bulls came to the fore as a contender for Super Rugby honours. He would pick absolute rubbish who can run the 100 meters in rugby in 50 seconds - like Alberts - as a loosie, because he is a "strong ball carrier" - which he is not. That game plan needed change but Meyer cannot see that the changing of the laws impacts on the game itself - the game of rugby moved on - Meyer's ideas did not.
Thirdly - Meyer select players on some premise that if somewhere in the past you have been a Springbok - then you are fully entitled to be in his squad as well - whether you are still performing or not.
You would find most SA Rugby supporters - other than limited examples like the fringe such as Beeno and Mozart on this site are in absolute agony when it comes to our coaches and their useless and clueless adherence to rubbish. If these were coaches anywhere else in the world - they would not have been appointed as national coaches in the first instance - or fired after one season - because they could never make the grade.
And the latest star coach we have for the Sharks buggered up his selections even worse with a false start last night in the CC - with a side that lost to the Griquas in a home game. His selections proved to be equally stupid and short sighted even in his first game as coach. Another bonus for the opposing franchises next year is looming.
Hell - if South African teams only could have reasonable coaches - we have ample players of quality - other than the rubbish that is floating around at present, they would be top notch in rugby. At present the opposing teams must be laughing their asses off every time they think about what is happening in SA team selection and licking their lips when it comes to easy consequential victories against them. Sometimes I agree with Saffex - the present coaches need a permanent stay in the loony bin.
