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FORUM / RUGBY /  France’s continuous game vs the Boks set plays

France’s continuous game vs the Boks set plays

Started by Mozart25 REPLIES1,903 VIEWS· 20 Mar 2022, 15:54
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2022, 15:54
#1
20 Mar 2022, 15:54#1

The game the Boks have been playing under Harrassmiss has veered in the direction of American football. Heavy defence, hard yards and kicking. Each action separated with a natural or injury/substitute induced pause. A game of set plays.


France by contrast keep things continuous. Short, unexpected passes lead to sudden breakouts, kept alive by more close passing with the objective of drawing in the defence and finding clear space out wide. A delightful game to watch.


Does that mean France’s game trumps the Boks?  Fans will wish it does. Given a neutral stadium the vast majority would be routing for France.


But in rugby dominant strengths in a few aspects can undo complexity. The Boks have won almost all their close tests via scrumming dominance. Ominously the French starting scrum is looking rock solid.



Increasingly the Boks have added ‘all player’ fetching….by the front row, centres as well as the back row. Much more so than Marx, for example, foraging on his own. This has worked quite brilliantly against stodgy attacks like the Poms where the break down point is predictable. Whether it will work against the fast shifting, wider, French offense is debatable.


France has many weapons. The best center and scumhalf in the game for example. And  a brilliant game plan. We have tremendous forward power and a great defence. The resolution should be interesting.


SH
sharkbok
Captain23,220 posts
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
20 Mar 2022, 16:17
#2
20 Mar 2022, 16:17#2
The slick passing of France will be hard to match, but hopefully the Boks can add more to their attacking game before the world cup to ensure when they have forward domination they score more points. 

The Boks have been losing the 1st half in many games, for Marx and the bench to up the tempo to win the 2nd half. 

The current Bok team is the best ever at the breakdown. If some more counter attacking could be done, in addition to more phase play attack. 


MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2022, 17:20
#3
20 Mar 2022, 17:20#3

I see no signs of phase play attack…if anything we keep going backwards. Am and Kolbe have been crucial to the counter attack and generally we do this as well as any team.

MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
20 Mar 2022, 17:50
#4
20 Mar 2022, 17:50#4
With the likes of Gelant, Fasssi , Madosh, Edwil van de Merwe we have more than enough attack players....phase play attack should actually be coached properly, which is clearly absent from bok coaching structures......this is what R&N must be eager to correct in the Boks Arsenal before and during this season before World Cup starts .....unless the Boks can force there Forward dominated gameplan on France, we will have a hard time beating them.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Mar 2022, 14:14
#5
21 Mar 2022, 14:14#5
The best centres in the game are de Allende and Am The Boks on the EOYT showed plenty on attack Labelling them as predominantly forward orientated is a joke. France are looking good but they need to play the Boks and NZ to really see where they stand. Their captain is crucial to their game - the best general in the game
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Mar 2022, 15:33
#6
21 Mar 2022, 15:33#6

They beat NZ last year...but that was at home...different story away.

MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
21 Mar 2022, 16:28
#7
21 Mar 2022, 16:28#7
The Boks are good at counter attack, but structured phase attack is not used that often.....they would rather kick in the hope that the opposition makes a mistake.....our last game against England showed that we had ball possession but that we rather played with the forwards......actual structured attack with the backline, short passes and creating space in the middle field or on the outside is not used that often ....all I am saying it would not hurt running more with the backs in structured attack combining of our forward dominance.....it will just make us better not worse. And Damian Willemse in his short time at 12 is showing that he is better playmaker than DA.....he deserves atleast a starting spot at 12 for some international tests.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Mar 2022, 17:59
#8
22 Mar 2022, 17:59#8
Ag kak man - no ways is Willemse a better play maker than de Allende. Comparing Willemse playing against NH club B sides versus the test DA plays in is laughable. DA plays to a game plan for the Boks - his primary role is carrying it up in traffic which he is the best in the business at. It’s not open running rugby because test match rugby dictates that most the game is played in the trenches. DA does exactly what the French 12 does - he bashes it up in traffic But when the opportunity presents itself then DA attacks with plenty of skill as he displayed on a few occasions on the EOYT Willemse is looking good at 12 but put him in a test and there will be little opportunity for those dancing feet The amount of rugby ignorance surrounding the likes of DA, Willie etc is astounding The Boks play a physical game, they are WC champs, Lions series champs and world number 1 because of this Wake the fuck up people
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Mar 2022, 21:21
#9
22 Mar 2022, 21:21#9
Dud Allende never created anything and lost the English test with the most stupid defensive move of the year. Fickou is better than Am
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Mar 2022, 22:41
#10
22 Mar 2022, 22:41#10
Bullshit DA was great on attack on the EOYT and had absolutely nothing to do with the loss to England There is no way in hell Fickou is better than Am, who the world over is regarded the best 13 in the game France only trump us at 9 and at 8 but only because Vermeulen is probably past it. But we have more than enough class acts to replace Vermeulen Dupont is their general who masters their play - we have Faf who brings energy and disruption and is a close second to Dupont
MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
22 Mar 2022, 23:14
#11
22 Mar 2022, 23:14#11
“ Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards wrote in The Guardian: “I’ve seen the future and it runs, tackles, scores tries and is called Gael Fickou.” - this guy is impressive, been watching him in six nations.....close call between him and Am. When we play France, it’s going to be a Great Game.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Mar 2022, 23:23
#12
22 Mar 2022, 23:23#12
Fickou is very good - been more consistent of late - used to blow hot and cold mostly cold At 28 he is hardly the future
MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
22 Mar 2022, 23:26
#13
22 Mar 2022, 23:26#13
He wrote that in 2012 to where he is now.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Mar 2022, 00:07
#14
23 Mar 2022, 00:07#14
Nonsense Dave the best two centres in rugby at the moment are Kerevi who dominated Dud and Fickou. Dud is robot and Am is a clever player, but more of a counter attacker.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Mar 2022, 00:54
#15
23 Mar 2022, 00:54#15
Kerevi never dominated DA, that’s a lie Am is better than Fickou and it’s not only me who says Am is the best 13 in the game, numerous articles do His strength is in all forms of play - brilliant rugby brain with the touches and skills to match
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2022, 05:09
#16
23 Mar 2022, 05:09#16

This story of Mozart started a week after the WC final and he has been found to be talking shit all along.  I did not comment on the situation - it is not worth commenting on.   To start off - when De Allende create things - it is ignored by Mozart - when his fake stories are pointed out  he goes quiet and repeat the BS in later threads.   

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Mar 2022, 10:52
#17
23 Mar 2022, 10:52#17
The facts are de Allende made some lovely breaks on the EOYT discrediting all the shit written about him. Anyone who does not see the value in DA for the Boks does not understand the game of rugby - it’s as simple as that. Same applies to PSDT at 7 - sorely missed in his absence
MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
23 Mar 2022, 12:18
#18
23 Mar 2022, 12:18#18
Damian is a very strong guy and good in taking the contact.....he does have some clean breaks, but mostly when there is a overlap or space is on offer...his playmaker skills compared to Esterhozen, Serfontein , Willemse and even Rickes Pretorius is not up there where it should be.....let’s hope he has improved that part of his game by playing for Munster.....don’t think R&N will drop him, but you never know with all of the talent back in SA and overseas players.....imagine esterhuizen or serfontein next to am and am playing of there play making skills, I think there will be action in the midfield :) instead of crashing into opponents most of the time.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Mar 2022, 18:37
#19
23 Mar 2022, 18:37#19
Mpower you are speaking utter horse shit Schalk Brits said in an interview that de Allende is one of the most gifted rugby players he has ever played with. He says he plays to the game plan DA on the EOYT tour made a great break using a step so stop speaking shit Like I said people who don’t appreciate what DA does for the Boks does not understand the game One would swear we see modern test centres making clean breaks all the time the way you fools carry on Wake up to the reality of test rugby - test centres crash it up all the time. DA happens to be the best at that and that’s why we are number 1. Stick Willemse at 12 for the Boks and we die - there will be no forward momentum created
MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
23 Mar 2022, 20:39
#20
23 Mar 2022, 20:39#20
I think Willemse will surprise us all and you we’re one of the initial with moz, saying that Willemse should be tried/played @ 12...and he is doing quite well I might add....not perfect, but is showing more initiative in creating space by stepping and even scoring tries and his defence is good.....Ok it’s not on Test level but for Stormers , but I do think they should give him a chance in some tests...just like esterhuizen alone on his form overseas, deserves a spot and starting position at 12....maybe even a combination of Ester 12 and DA 13 might work just as well....Damian is good, but not perfect and other 12 SA players are putting up there Hands very strongly.
MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
23 Mar 2022, 20:52
#21
23 Mar 2022, 20:52#21
Scrap that, 12 Ester 13 Am....won’t drop AM for DA....I had a terrible brain freeze sorry.
SE
Seb
Pro2,680 posts
SE
SebPro2,680 posts
23 Mar 2022, 21:21
#22
23 Mar 2022, 21:21#22

About +2/3 or maybe more years ago after watching the Junior "World Cups" (ie under 19's, 20's) I remarked watch France, especially Dupont plus a few others  from their juniors in the next few years. There was little response if any.It was common sense and did not need much insight. Now we are seeing some fruit, which when you think of it is not Space Research.

Not so long ago commentating on France's up and coming brilliance, I was attacked by Australia's most intelligent rugby expert, Queenslander Supporter, who remarked by the next WRC in 2023, France will have preliminary peaked and spent.

Well, you never can tell who wins, "D o or Die" competitions but I think France has it all to take SA and NZ to the cleaners. Betters should have climbed in then, your odds were around 6 to 1, now they are hot favourites. I pay little attention to this...but my call is this...France's first feel of the William Webb Ellis Cup...they have been on the fringes so many times...it's time to take it.

SH
sharkbok
Captain23,220 posts
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
24 Mar 2022, 01:24
#23
24 Mar 2022, 01:24#23

France is now 2nd in the world rankings, and they could be in the perfect spot to peak for the World Cup next year.


SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Mar 2022, 20:51
#24
29 Mar 2022, 20:51#24
I said Willemse’s best position is 12 at no point would I select him ahead of de Allende at 12. No way in hell
MP
Mpower
Pro5,061 posts
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
29 Mar 2022, 23:11
#25
29 Mar 2022, 23:11#25
Well this is debatable....DA is strong, like I have said so many times, but Rugby clever he is not....he crashes it up thinking he can run over everyone, but he can’t as proven....would it not be better to think and use his attributes in a clever way, step, better positioning to avoid unnecessary contact, creating space, dummy and scoring the tries that Boks need so badly with all the forward dominance? Cleverness exceeds brut force or not?
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Mar 2022, 01:02
#26
30 Mar 2022, 01:02#26

All these attributes Dud supposedly has, but none of them show up in the stats. Why? Because mostly they are imagined by believers like Dave.

Allende’s great year end breaks for example….ffs he made 2 breaks all of 2021!!!

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