Francois Steyn - his position at present

In the first instance I feel sorry for the guy and I hope he regains his form and his place in the Sharks team.   In the first instance he will have to get rid of the extra weight and become speedier.   The latter shall be easier than the former.   I believe that if he loses the extra kilos -

*    his speed will with extra training comes back; and

*   his kicking game will improve.

However I do not think it will be in the no 12 position - but at full back.    To my mind Steyn does not read games well enough to be a good no 12 - and I think he will not make it back into that position with the return of Whitehead.    I think Plumtree is thinking of him as a full back - not a center.

There is one thing though - I saw this change coming.   I said after the Stormers game that Steyn is not performing and the chances are that it is negatively affecting the backline performance.   Some of the posters disagreed at the time and Saffex nearly threw a fit about how dumb and idiotic I was.   After the Kings game I said the change was imminent and I really was surprised that Steyn got into the team against the Brumbies - because even last week the writing was on the wall.    Howvever he did make the team and proved to be inadequate again.   I was absolutely sure he would not make it into the team for this week and even started a thread on the issue.

In essence I think that members must realize that all of us are real lovers of rugby and we all make a study of the game and come up with conclusions.   People may interpret performances differently - but that does not make members who differ  idiots, dumbo's, stupid or fools.   This case shows that we all know quite a lot about rugby - since from the time I initially raised serious concerns about the performances of Steyn - the number of members who shared my views constantly increased.    In the end the only hold-out was my friend Saffex and he can be assured I do not take all the namecalling as serious at all.

My advice to fellow-members are keep your eyes open - check you impressions against the stats of players and be frank and honest about assessments.   Do not form an opinion based on one instance in a game like some members are apt to do - rather determine what trends throughout the game in respect of specific players are in evidence.   If you then reach a conclusion - put it on this site for nice healthy debate.

Apparently he has not trained with the side this week. He has been doing conditioning work all week and will play off the bench.

Sadly it means the Sharks will have the useless Bosman at 12.

Botes is in for Kankowski, so Plum has learnt nothing from the Brumbies drubbing - instead of beefing up the Sharks pack he brings in a smaller loosie.

Steph du Toit and Herbst are also starting at 4 and 3

As for Frans, disagree, he is a good fullback, but his best spot is 12. He is not quick enough to make a real impression at 15. You need really quick players at 15 like Halfpenny, Mogg, Dagg, Foden, Hogg and Brown.

Frans has the skill set to make the perfect 12 for the modern game. Modern test rugby is mostly played in traffic, there is little space to work with given the emphasis on structured defences. Frans has the creativity and physicality to execute the SBW model of inside centre play.

We saw this from Frans in the first round of the S15, where Frans stepped the first defender, took contact and offloaded perfectly to his support runners. He did this twice and he needs to trust his skills to continue in this vain.

However, in the last few matches, we have seen the Sharks forwards lose the physical battle and with that the backs have seen less ball and with this Frans has resorted to the predictable crashball stuff. The fact that he is struggling with his fitness and weight is not helping matters. When you are dead on your feet, the direct route is the easy option, being creative tends to fly out the window.

We need a fit Frans at 12, trusting his skill set to beat his man through that very set and not trying to run over people. We dont want to see a crashball 12.

Saffex

I am glad to see that Steyn is doing conditioning work and I am sure he must be given an opportunity to get his confidence back.

I agree with you about the Sharks loosies - but I think the Rebels are not as strong as the Brumbies in that Department and Plumtree may have thought about it that way.   If it proves to be  a problem - he can bring back Bresler and move Du Toit to 7 and Coetzee to 6.

My problem with Steyn at 12 has been that since his return from France - he has become one-dimensional in that his only real method was efforts to run over the opposing defenders followed by crashballing.   There was not much else in evidence.   I also watched some games he played in in France before his return to SA and the same trend was in evidence there as well.   You are correct in what you wrote in your last sentence above - but that is excactly what Steyn tried to do constantly since his return to SA.

His off-loading of balls became ineffective and haphazard and his passing game was erratic and not really effective.   The end result was that he never helped in creating space for players outside of him.   Due to the other issues mentioned the outside players in the rare instance of getting a ball from him - could really do nothing of note with it.  There is one issue where I do differ from you - any backline player must have sped and Steyn had a problem with that all along.

Is he going to recover the skills you say he has - I am not sure of it al all and we will have to see what happens in future.

I think there will be a  vast difference and improvement in backline play on Saturday compared to what happened thus far in Super 15 this year  

Frans showed in his first S15 match how to beat the defender with a step and offload - we needed to see more of that but as the weeks have passed and the Sharks have got worse and worse, Frans has resorted to the crashball role, which is not what we wanted to see.

All our backs have been disappointing and sadly not much will improve with the Bulls ignoring Serfontein, the Stormers snubbing de Allende and the Sharks bringing in the very average Bosman at 12

For once i have to disagree with you Mike. I have never rated Steyn as a good centre. He was only moved there to cover for injury the Boks had to the centres we had at the time. He was very good at defence and that was his role. When he came on the scene he had pace and a huge boot, making a name for himself with his long kicks and defence.The perfect fullback at the time...

With injuries to the sharks Steyn was tried at flyhalf and centre and failed , often having his kicks charged down due to his extensive windup when kicking. At fullback he had time and space and he shone in that position.

I am not fond of a huge no. 12 centre, preferring the dick muir / smith / Barnes type of inside centre, a play maker and like you have not been impressed with Steyn this season at centre. I do check the game stats and sometimes rewatch the game. Ive stopped doing that as this rugby addiction can be bad!

Seems the Coach is letting him play off the bench probably hopeing that he gives a beter 20 min then the shocker of last week.

As for the loose forwards i am a fan of Botes. He is hugely underated and has outshone Coetzee this season at 6 and apart from Deysel has been the form loosie for the sharks. 

I like the sharks side for saterday With Bosman we have mr reliable who will make a huge diffence to the backline. With the three loosies you have a lot of speed. Lets hope the tight five stand up and lend a hand if needed.Pity we havent got a Deysel or Alberts off the bench!

Mrplebs, I'll keep this short, you are speaking a load of crap

Coming from the guy who thinks Steyn is the best no 12 in the country ..i have to take it as a compliment ! Soon you will be telling us Hougaard is the best no 9 in the country! Read the reviews! Nobody agrees with your views and definetly not Plumtree! Just accept it and move on...

Well Frans is the best 12 in the country and Hougaard is by some distance the best 9 in the country. Plum is hardly the measure, his side got taught a lesson last week and I dont recall him winning the S15 or CC last year.

Frans will be the Bok 12 this year and Hougaard the Bok 9

You see that is the problem! playing players out of position. Hougaard became a sensation at what...wing and Steyn at ....fullback! South africans love playing players out of position and wonder why they dont perform consistently.

There is no doubt both players have the x factor.But let them use those skills in enviroments where they excel.

I wouldnt put it past Meyer to choose those two for the boks! He stuck with players like Spies and Matfield who were under performing weekly so its possible he would make a dumb decision like that!

What a load of crap. Hougaard has played a handful of games on the wing, he has spent his whole rugby career at 9.

Frans was a 10 at school, would be interesting to see how many games he has played 15 vs centre at Bok and Sharks level

Saffex

I am sorry to say - but you seem to have learnt nothing anout the situation Steyn is in.  The situation is simple and clear - Steyn was problematic at 12 and was so from the time he returned to SA from France.  He never was and still is not the best 12 in SA.   He will have to improve massivly to be even considerd for selection at 12.   It is to my mind unlikely to happen - because although he has the physique (if he can get rid of some fat) - he is not speedy enough and he  is deficient in reading of games. He kicks balls away with overlaps in evidence and space for his outside backs and then expect miracles.   I think he could make it at full back - if he can speed up - but I cannot see him being useful at 12 - sad to say.

Lets keep back on the Hougaard issue for a while.  Hougaard was poor last year and Meyer had more than ample reason to move him away from scrummie.   Yoiu may not think so becaue you did not want to see what bad and unthinking play Hougaard was involved in  - but there ws ample evidence that he was completely out of form.

He came back this year as a scrummie - and showed some improvement on last year - but did not really show anything people can shout about.   He then got injured and sent back to SA early.   In all fairness he should be given a reasonable time to prove that he could still be considered as scrummie of the Springboks.   What we have seen thus far in Super 15 is that Pretorius are leagues ahead of him to get thee job.   Hougaard has a lot to .prove before he can be on the candidates list for selection  - leave alone be considered for se;ection,

Lets give  the guy a chance to get to a stage where he can play again and study him for 3 or 4 games and then we can talk.  

Wrong Mike, he was our best test 12 last year, for Jean sure as hell was not. He was also our best 12 in the first 2 rounds of the S15.

As for Hougaard, he was spot on until his injury. Pretorious can never be considered for test rugby given how shocking his service is.

Saffex - Saffex - Saffex

Will you ever learn to stop making statements based on your preferences only and not based on actual performances by players?   Pretorius played excellently thus far this year for the Cheetahs and constantly in the run for scrummie of the week.  If his service was as bad as you say it is - than why would he be rated so highly by others?   Matter of fact realistic observers see that you are talking crap here - sad to say.

Sorry sir - but De Villiers last year was better at 12 than Steyn and by now De Allende is well ahead of him in all respects -  Best 12?  You are deluded my friend. 

Well that frightens me Saffex if Hougaart played all his rugby at 9. He battles even with a chip kick, he needs a long line of forwards just to get into position to kick.At rucks he trips over his feet when getting the ball out.

Theres no way his pass or kicking game is anywhere near Pienaars or even Pretorius 's . He will always be seen as a great impact player ! Terribly disapointing as he was the understudy to the best scrumhalf in 2007 Du preez he should have evolved into one of the best.