Francois Steyn - Summary of discussion on this Board

There has been various items and discussions of Francois Steyn on this site and I wante to get it into one item and forget about the insults and everything stemming from differences on the issue.   First of alll I would used summarized versions of what were said by contributors and from there do a sumary:-

kingcorn

"My biggest problem thus far of the sharks players has been Frans Steyn. He as been absolutely useless. He really needs to get on a treadmill and drop the ego. Past glories are not going to help the sharks. Drop him to the vodacom cup and bring back Tim Whitehead.

"I was really looking forward to this season with a Steyn-Jordaan combo. I thought that Steyn would be ten times better than when he was a 19 year old.  Maybe he hustles need some lypo suction or a rubber band"

Sharkbok 

"Frans Steyn does not look like he is enjoying himself on the field.  Maybe is trying to hard but he has lost his aura of a worldcall player that he once had.  He does not seem very balanced when he runs and sometimes just looks for contact to fall onto the floor.   That effort at the end of the match when he ran from Fullback into 2 players was like a headless chicken."

Shezza

"I was completely let down by Fransie, hope he gets his act together! De Villiers 12 and Jordaan 13 for Boks!"

Rooinek

"I am no Steyn upporter"  "I said I'm not a supporter of Francois Steyn at inside centre. I do rate him as a fullback where he doesn't hog the ball and gets to use his massive boot to better effect.'

boklogic

" Where to start. This man is lacking confidence big time and he looks disinterested. He needs time away from the game. A lot of time. He was pathetic on attack, bumped off on an occasion on defence and put in a ridiculous little chip kick that was easily fielded by Jesse Mogg in the Sharks 1st multiple phase attack. He is overweight and slow. I was shocked at the lack of urgency shown to get back and field a chip kick into the Sharks 22 that should have been an easy mark, but nearly brought the Brumbies a 5th try. The extent of Frans Steyn's game was clear for all to see in his last run of the match. 20 metres of space infront of him and he chooses to run full steam ahead into two players and brought down as easy as pie."

mrdebbs

"The sharks backline is still handicaped with Steyn at 12 and that showed.    Worst player on the day Steyn! One bad apple sure messes up the whole bunch."

Beeno

" It is astonishing what has happened re Frans.Is he injured? Is he no longer interested. What is wrong with him!!!    Mike blames snapster but frankly snapster is going on the fact that Frans is still young and has that x factor. However until it reemmerges - if it does - he has to be dropped. I can scarcely beleive my eyes as to how Steyn is playing. However reality is reality and we must not ignore it."

"As for Frans well all hope disappears after this hapless display. Its said but the facts demand he has to be dropped from the Sharks team."

Mozart

"For the Sharks Steyn is totally confused....run over, side stepped, dropping balls, missing tackles."

Clevermike

"I think that I saw him missing 3 tackles in the first 15 minutes - the one the Brumbie ran over him like he was not there. Was no good in defence threafter and tried to get other player to make tackles whilst he hanged around. Showed nothing on attack and when their was an effort made to attack by the Sharks - he stymied it by kicking the ball straight into the hands of Mogg for an easy catch. Any sense in that one????????

His kicking game was atrocious - the one releiving kick he tried went harmless down the middle of the field and was a nice launching pad for another attack by the Brumbies - which ultimately lead to another try for them..

I said he was going to be subbed at roundabout 60 minutes if he was no-good and he was subbed. However, as Ludick was injured he stayed on as full back - where he was even more atrocious than at center. He was like a dummy playing at 15 - two instances where a schoolboy would have done better than him can be referred to as evidence."

bluebok

"I agree, not only is Steyn not up to scratch anymore, he has become a liability!"

 Saffex

As for the backs, your take on Frans is a load of shit as well. He defended well all day as thats all they could do. He had very few opportunities with ball in hand. Lambie had one half break but was an easy target for the attacking Brumbies. Jordaan like Frans had little opportunities with ball in hand and he to defended well. The wings were never in the game. To rate the backs and mark them down in that kind of a game is laughable given their forwards let them down.

You are lying about Frans's defence, it was more physical than any of the other Shark backs, he got half bounced by a 120kg number 8, it happens, its called rugby. He had nothing to offer on attack as the Sharks backs had little opportunity in that department. Frans had no options outside him, the chip was a good option, it was just poorly executed - that happens.

Ah so you are so stupid that you think we should blame Frans for the Sharks performance? I know you are stupid but this takes the cake.  Here is a little reality check for you. The Sharks got their arses kicked because their forwards were physically dominated.  It had stuff all to do with Frans and the backs. Frans was fine, he tackled well, thats all he could do.

SUMMARY

I could not believe what I saw -  here we have ten  rugby enthusiasts all demanding action about the poor display of Steyn - all demanding his dropping from the team

And then on the other side we have one contributor that says Steyn was fine and did nothing wrong and who still is the best no 12 in SA.

The question remains - can ten enthusiasts - who all watched the game with great interest all be wrong about what they saw and only one contributor saw a different game from Steyn?    I do like Saffex as a persn - but is he really so bound up in the aura of Steyn that he does not look objectively at what the man produced in this game and also in the previous games?

From the above it is evident that there really is no place for Steyn in the Sharks team and I believe Plumtree will finally take action.   Plumtree made the mistake of appointing Steyn as temporary captain after Daniel was injured.   He was so desperate to get rid of thet problem that he brought back Daniel to be captain before the latter was really ready for such a major game - and the results were disastrous.  

Small correction there, ou Maaik, I said I'm not a supporter of Francois Steyn at inside centre. I do rate him as a fullback where he doesn't hog the ball and gets to use his massive boot to better effect.

 Truth be told, Steyn will be even worse at 15 than 12 now. Who the hell wants a fat, slow fullback that looks to take contact?

His little 20 minute "cameo" at fullback on the weekend was enough for me to finally give up on Frans. You cant hide at this level and especially not at fullback. His boot is not what it used to be. When last did he slot a long distance goal kick? His punting is hit and miss. He looked laboured in getting back to field a chip into the 22 and almost cost us a try.

To sum it all up, he looks too slow, too fat, no skill and not interested! Frans Steyn always said that he does not want to play rugby too long. He wants to make his money and sit back on a farm and watch his kids play! He also said he can not see himself doing what Naas and Stransky do and commenting on other players form! He wants to retire young and be done with the game..Looks like that point has come in his career. He went and made big money, he is now married and will no doubt be having a kid soon..Looks like Fransie is over rugby. He did tell us his plans, maybe he is a man of his word??

I agree, not only is Steyn not up to scratch anymore, he has become a liability!

Well if the rest of the Sharks were standing tall and Frans was playing badly then I'd concede that there is a problem with him.

Fact is he was the best inside centre in SA in the first two weeks that the SA sides played - FACT - this is not even open to debate.

Against the Kings and Brumbies, the entire Sharks side under performed - to point fingers at Frans is laughable, when he was the best in the first 2 games and has contributed little in his last 2 games, much like the rest of his team mates and this is largely down to the Sharks forwards failing to assert themselves.

I have no issue with Frans at all. He is our best option at 12 by some distance, is not an option at 15 at all as he does not have the out and out pace for a 15.

Saffex

Please start seeing in Steyn what he really is - a player that lost his zip completely. I am not averse to your statement that he played a reasonable game in the first riound against the Cheetahs.   Did nothing remarkable - but did not let the team down. 

That was followed by a below par game - where the backline was neutralized completely by Steyn.   He did nothing positively and was in fact out-played by his opposing no 12 - who showed up much better than Steyn did.   Why can that statement be made - just lets look at a simple few facts:-

Action                        Steyn                       De Allende

Line Break                                                         1

Go foreward                   3                                  5

Tackles                          6                                  5

Goal   Miss                    1

Lost possesion              1

The above should tell you something about Steyn not so?    He made no line breaks carried the ball less than De Allende - made one more tackle than De Allende did - but lost possession of the ball once.    Bearing the above in mind De Allende was a much better player on the day in question than Steyn was.

How can you make a wild statement like the one you did if a rookie put up a better performance than Steyn did?  The facts actually indicated a vastly different situation and every reporter indicated as such.

In the third round against the Kings Steyn was so bad that he was subbed - despite the fct that he was captain on the day in question.   There is serious evidence that the Sharks backline fuctioned better in his absence -  but that fact  does not seem to be recognised by you.

I have to agree with you - there is no way that a number of players cannot be singled out as being very poor in the game against the Brumbies.  Plumtree singled out the senior players for particular criticism without actually naming the bad eggs.   There has been some details provided about the other players that let the team down - but the most detailed and constant negatives were displayed by Steyn.   He showed zero positives - some of the others did show something positive during the day - he showed nothing.   He was so poor that he was going to be subbed again.  At that stage Ludick got injured and Plumtree had no other option but to bring on Bosman.   If Steyn was any good at center - he would have kept Steyn at center and use Bosman at full back - but Plumtree decided to change the situation and put Steyn at full back.   That really was bad for Steyn.   It showed up his lack of speed and his lack of insight comprehensively for all to see - it is less onvious at center - but much more exposed at full back.  

By the way the lack of speed at last recognised at full back is equally noticeable at center - he is extremely slow in that position as well and thus becomes an easy target for opposition players to defend against.

Sorry Saffex - but Steyn showed nothing in the two games he played for the Sharks in Super 15 last year, he showed nothing of value in the five tests he played in and he showed nothing in Super 15 this year.   He has  lost his zip and his speed as well.   He is probably by now somewhere around the least effective 12 in SA and I am afraid he has to go.   Springbok seletion - no chance that Meyer would fall for that one again.

Mike I dont care what you think about his performance in his first two games. After game one he made the SA side of the week, he had a great game. In his second game, he made the S15 competition team of the week - again for a good reason. Hence your take on his first two games is complete and utter rubbish.

In his last two games he has had nothing to work with as the Sharks as a whole have been poor, in particular against the Brumbies.

I have no issue with Frans at all. He has had two good games and two average ones thanks to the team as a whole. Same can be said of Lambie playing inside him. He has also had two good games and two average ones - do you see me calling him useless blaaa, blaaa, blaaa

So all the other posters and myself is wrong - Saffex is right.  Difference is the other posters recognise bullshit when they see it in a player - Saffx refuses to recognise it even if it hit him in the face.  

Nice going Saffex - but I don't think that Steyn would be around in the next game and what then?  An all out attack on Plumtree to follow?

Yes Mike you are all wrong - my take is exactly the facts of the matter. Two good games and two average ones does not make him a poor player and certainly does not elevate the likes of Olivier, de Allende and Ebersohn ahead of him at the Bok 12.

Frans will start next game - Plum is not as stupid as you are

Fat, lazy, stingy, gloryseeker ... just plain useless.

Always has been.

Get rid of him and the Sharks will improve immediately.

After watching Fransie bumble his way through the early tests last year, I was amazed when many were automatically selecting him for Bok 12. This was all evident last year, where his participation stats, metres per carry and defenders beaten stats, were abysmally low.

Look back at the Fransie of the RWC 07 and the Fransie today......those are two different bodies. Hell he can't even connect squarely on his kicks today.

Could he come back with a Spartan regimen and total dedication.....I dunno. The goose might be cooked.

Disagree on Frans at 25, he is nowhere near done. He was better than Jean at 12 for the Boks last year and his player ratings confirmed this.

He has also had two good starts to the S15 and two average games along with his team in general. Frans, like the rest of the Sharks, Bulls and Stormers have to up their games.

None of our backs are standing out this S15 - Goosen, Catrakillis, Mvovo, Petersen and Lambie have had moments, Frans was good in his first game, de Allende and Ebersohn in their last games. We have seen nothing from JP, Kirchner, Jean, Olivier, Jordaan, Sadie, Joe, Habana, Jantjies, Ludik, Aplon, Reinach, Groom, Mapoe, Hougaard, Morne, Ndungane.........but saying that, its difficult for the backs to contribute when their forwards are being outmuscled.

Our sides need to be selecting more grunt players in the packs - we cant continue with the likes of Deon Fourie at 2, de Kock Steenkamp at 4, Burden at 2, Bresler at 4, Franco v/d Merwe at 5, a Sharks and Bulls loose trio containing no bruiser at 7, the Bulls with Wepner at 2 and Jeandre Kruger at 5.

All these sides have grunt players to add and need to wake up to this fact. The loss of Etzebeth, Bismark and Alberts has not helped the cause, but we are ignoring talents like Steph du Toit, Paul Willemse, Callie Visagie, Cyle Cooper, Jandre Marais, Peet Marais, Jean Cook, Grant Hattingh and Ruan Botha for instance.

Personally I hope Snapster proves right on all ths as its extremely disappointing to see how things are going.

Wonder if Plum will pick him again for the next match.

Standard Saffex again - he named scores of players that showed nothing and Steyn who was good - bullshit at it at again.  I reckon the players mentioned has a lot to prove - while Steyn was the one that f#cked up completely - with no idea of improvement possible really unthinkable.

No DomMike, I said Frans was good in his first game, which he was - FACT

The list is correct, those players have done very little so far - FACT

Dunce Saffex

Wrong - Saffex was even worse in Round 2 than he was in Round 5 - and he was extremely poor in the last game.   PROVEN FACT

Yes the other players have to rove themselves - but if Steyn can stay in the Sharks starting line up - he has more to proof than all the other players combined.   PROVEN FACT.

Mike now you are just lying - I am not responding to a bunch of lies - that is beneath me