Frans Steyn & Willem Albert's blamed for the poor form of all SA Super XV teams ex SuperSport

Wow, I would have expected a comment like that to come straight from you given how thick you are......but maybe you have family employed at Supersport?
Just asking?

 Sharkbok 
That is not a fair comment.   Each franchise team has their own deficiencies - the Sharks definitely has not been well-served by the two players named by you.
  

 Jaque Du Plessis will take the number 7 jersey. Fa r harder worker than Alberts and more effective. Frans has a lot to do.

Frans at 10, Jean at 12....13 is a mystery. No change in our loosies.....Alberts, Louw and Vermeulen.

Mozart
I will accept Frans at 10 if you do a statistical performance  evaluation on this site and prove that he did well enough to justify selection.   
You are too big a coward to do that and have not done it, but keep on writing about him at 10.   You must like anyone prove that he did well enough to justify selection and the real situation is that he did not.  So come now 0 five us the facts and do that statistical evaluation.
Then we have the mighty Alberts with his tackles.   The Treeby tackle on Saturday showed  really showed us how effective his tackles normally are.   Most are very very average and his tackle stats are low because of severely deficient speed.  The day that he makes a ball recovery from a tackle breakdown  situation and start entering mauls and not stand around at the back thereof - that is the day I may be able to change my mind.   Have not seen any of that for the past two years.
Come now give us the stats on Steyn and Alberts and tell us why the two should be selected because of sustained food performances.  At least you must prove y our point and not just blow hot air.

 

Oom am I your analyst? If you want the stats calculate them yourself...but keep them honest for a change.  

 Mozart
I did and you then started to get personal and did not comment on them at all.   In essence it boiled down to the following:-
*   Steyn was successfulk with 75% of his kicks at goal 0 inclusive of 6 long distance ones that would eb difficult or vitually impossible for other kickers.
*   He is the only flyhalf or center in any of the franchises not to make  a single line break in any game this year;
*    He is the only frontline center in any franchise who have not scored a try during Super 15;
*    He spilled or cause ball possession losses and gave away penalties at a rate of more than three per game; 
*   His missed tackl e ratio is higher than any  other frontline flyhalf or center in any of the SA Franchises.
Besides the above careful observation indicates that he is speed-deficient, his reading of the games have been severely criticized  by commentators and his ball skills are not of the required standard.
THAT IS A SUMMARY OF THE PERFORMANCES OF STEYN THIS YEAR - SO PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY HE IS SUCH A KEY SELECTION FOR THE SPRINGBOK TEAM AS MADE OUT BY YOU - ESPECIALLY SINCE HIS PERFORMANCES INDICATE SERIOUS DEFICIENCIES ON HIS PART.    

So Oom would you say his tackle stats are a problem?

Mozart
They are - when a player has a 20% or higher missed tackle ratio it is a problem.   

 Moz, Frans will be exposed at 10 when playing NZ and Oz as well as top NH teams. His kicking under pressure is too slow. IMO he is best suited at 15. Our best bet at 10 would be Morne with either Lambie or Boshoff as backup. I prefer Boshof and I think Goosen has first to prove that he can stay fit for a whole season, so I leave him out of the equation.My Team:
1. Beast2. Bismarck3. Jannie (Malherbe) 
4. Eben(if still injured?????)5. Matfield (Flipflop)6. Flo7. Alberts (Scalla)8. Vermeulen
9. Du Preez (Sarel)10. Morne (Boshoff)11. Habana12. Jean13 Fury (De Jongh/Sadie)14. Willie15. Fransie
Must have Bench PlayersCoenie, De Allende, Lambie & Hougaart and the rest from those in brackets.

 Draad
I rhink that Francois Steyn is speedwise too slow to be a full back and his defense this year was poor because he gets beaten by speedier players.  
I would have Adriaan on the bench as well.
I do not like the plodders you have in the team - They are just too slow to be part of the modern game.  They let us down last year and was no better in Super 15 this year. 
Fourie - slow and worthless on attack
Morne Steyn - cannot make the starting line up of his Club - definite plodder
Willem Alberts - very slow, a lock masquerading as a loosie, no ball protection and recovery - in defense easily beaten by faster players
Victor Matfield - no contribution to tight 5 play - he is limited to line out jumping nothing else
Jannie du Plessis - atrocious form.    
 
  

 Mike,
I have my reservations about all the players where I put someone in brackets next to their names.

1. Fourie was always slow, but his combination with Jean has always reaped dividends. The other 13's just does not live up to the expectations.
   
2. Morne: No clear replacement for him and I know Meyer will follow his form and be a good judge on his.
   
3. Willem Alberts is a hard man and I don't see a clear replacement for him. If Schalk can return to full fitness, he can take over, but he has still a lot to prove.
4. We can afford a less physical lock if we have Alberts, Eben, Bismarck, Vermeulen and Flow in the pack AND Matfield brings a lot of experience and lineout genius to the game. His kick receiving is also top notch. We struggled with that last year.
5. Jannie's form has been bad, but Malherbe did not convince this season. He did play in a unsettled pack with rookie locks, but still has some things to prove. Coenie is not a tighthead.
6. Strauss can ad value to the team as second choice hooker. I'm not a huge fan of him though. He does silly things for a captain and tends to lose the ball in contact when driving up a bit too much for my liking.

PS, you have not given any alternatives in their stead, care to correct that please?

 Ok
I have posted a team elsewhere. made up of the following:-
15  Willie le Roux, 14 Lwazi Mvovo. 13 Jean de Villiers, 12  Damian de Allende,  11 Brian Habana, 10  Johan Goosen,  9  Fourie du Preez, 8  Warren Whiteley,  7  Jacques du Plessis, 6 Francois Louw, 5  Flip van der Merwe,  4 Eben Etzebeth,  3  Frans Malherbe, 2  Bismarck du Plessis,  1 Tendai Mtawarire
16  Adriaan Strauss,  17 Coenie Oosthuizen, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19  Lood de Jager, 20 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 21  Faf de Klerk, 22 Patrick Lambie, 23 Ryno Benjamin.
I added some comments on the issue and the following is what i said:-
"Time to get rid of and forget about the plodders who have under-performed thus far this year like JP Pietersen (speed loss),  JJ Engelbrecht (form poor), Jan Serfontein (not ready yet), Francois Steyn (atrocious form - slow and very poor), Duane Vermeulen (showed very little this year), Willem Alberts (too slow for a loosie - limited capacity) and  Jannie du Plessis (atrocious form)".
"Whitely. Kankowski, Vermeulen - I frankly do not know.  Maybe Vermeulen - but he was coasting this year in Super 15 = not showing much and he has virtually no linking abilities with the backline."  

 Although Mvovo are playing OK this year and will probably be in the bok setup, he will always be a liability when the going gets tough.

So Oom 20 per cent of tackles missed is a problem.....well that's exactly the number your flyhalf Goosen missed this S15 ...and even when he makes a tackle it's desperate with offload risk. So care to change your mind?

Draad I agree Frans is occasionally charged, and that's his biggest challenge. But this can  be fixed I believe with some good training. He also needs time at ten, we are judging him at 10 when he is switched last minute from 12.
For the rest, you and I are very close, and if Frans can't be fine tuned, I would also play Morne. I also completely agree with your reservations about Mvovo. 

What OOM....the deep dive? Are you trying to slime out of your mistake?  

 Mozart

There is no way that missed tackle ratio's of that magnitude is acceptable.   In fact Steyn is worse when he played at flyhalf - there his rate is way over 35%.   So make comparisons as much as you like - he was shit poor.
I am afraid the Rebels have already worked him out and they are going to have a field day with a clueless flyhalf who are guaranteed to neutralize the Sharks backline.    

 Mozart

There is no way that missed tackle ratio's of that magnitude is acceptable.   In fact Steyn is worse when he played at flyhalf - there his rate is way over 35%.   So make comparisons as much as you like - he was shit poor.
I am afraid the Rebels have already worked him out and they are going to have a field day with a clueless flyhalf who are guaranteed to neutralize the Sharks backline.    

So in your view Goosen is not acceptable and nor is D Allende?  

 The topic for discussion here is Steyn - not Goosen.   But since you raised his case 0 you tried to compare the tackling stats of a flyhalf and a center - but got trumped neatly because in the games Steyn played at flyhalf he was the worst tackler at 10.  
Now lets get back to Steyn and De Jongh.   They are clueless rugby players.  White said himself that the Sharks passed the balkls they should kick and kick the balls they should pass.  The latter happened mostly in the second half of the Highlanders game. when Steyn was at flyhalf.   However, the worst case of unthinking rugby I have seen for years was kicking the ball away after your tights won a tight head scrum.  Not only kicking it away - but kicking it from the halfline into the in goal area for Smith to touch down.   Steyn did his normal - a flyhalf who makes skip passes to eliminate overlaps shows serious thinking problems - he cannot read games and take positive decisions and you want him at fltyhalf.
You call Serfontein Steppie,  but De Jongh is worse.  On Saturday on four occassions where there were serious overlaps outside of him and he did not pass - but step into traffic  and the scoring opportunities were lost.  Aside from his serious defencee deficiencies on Saturday his reading of the ganme and passing were piss poor.   
Would I have Goosen and De Allende in my team - sure, because they are not stupid rob ots like your St Francois and St De Jongh are.             

No the topic is your poor judgement....Goosen 20% missed is ok, De Allende 19% missed is ok....hell JJ 22% missed in the tests last year is ok. But Steyn is not. Come now, explain why.  

 Draad, your side is SHIT

Mozart
Ypou are specializing in rubbish here.  Lets look at it objectively.  You claimed that Steyn's missed tackle ratio is as bad as Goosen - but what you forget is that one is a cnter and the other a flyhalf.   In the case where Steyn started as flyhalf (against the Lions) his missed tackle ratio was 50%.  So is there a real comparison - and the comparison is that Steyn flopped as a defending flyhalf - much worse than  Gooen could ever dreamed to be.
Comparing center play only it is even worse than any other center.  You talk about De Allende - I did not check his stats but he was never run around like Steyn was - remember Harris twice in the Reds game  and also on Saturday - when Steyn did not attempt tackles and Jordaan had to cover tackle the Highlanders players who ran through Steyn.
Dimwit - next time you try and play the diversion game.  make sure of your facts.
      
      

So tackles are harder at flyhalf vs 12 where there is more space and the player is at greater speed? Care to back that up?  

Mozart
Have you ever in your life watch a game of rugby and understands the game?  In the case of flyhalfs the tackle is mostly on forwards attacking through the channel - much heavier players  and more difficult to tackle than the case is with an opposing center.  Capice?      

Just another assertion, I'm looking for proof. By the way  I taught you the word but apparently not the spelling...it's capisce . No need to thank me.

 Saffex,  I am not too thrilled with my side either, but it's the best we have ATM. Your young guns must be phased in gradually otherwise we shall lose all our games.