Furious Stormers boss to report Kiwi ref

Been a bad week for our poor kiwi friends. Only solution is to believe in themselves, that they can win the odd game without cheating! Hahhahahahahahahaha

Cape Town - The Stormers are furious at the performance of New Zealand referee Mike Fraser during their 15-9 home loss to the Chiefsover the weekend.

The Capetonians are so upset that the WP Rugby Union’s director of rugby, Gert Smal, confirmed that he will take up the matter with governing body SANZAAR.

“I’m not happy with the referee’s performance. It wasn’t good enough,” Smal told Netwerk24.

Smal said he’ll be in discussion with SANZAAR’s refereeing boss Lyndon Bray.(But isnt ou Bray a Kiwi!!!! Good luck with that!!)

“We’ll support our feedback with video footage,” Smal added. 

Smal would not say which aspects of Fraser’s performance had upset the Stormers, but the talk behind the scenes indicate that they weren’t happy with the manner in which the scrums were officiated.

The Chiefs won critical penalties at scrum time and also received a penalty try when the Stormers scrum buckled under pressure.

Smal added that he was in favour of having neutral referees in the competition.

His comments come after former Springbok coach Nick Mallett had questioned SANZAAR’s policywhich allows an away team to get a referee from their own country.

“I do think they (the Chiefs) were assisted by the referee (Fraser). I don’t think he had the best game and I am not so sure about the system where New Zealand referees ref New Zealand teams. I am not saying this as a biased South African supporter,” Mallett said in the SuperSport studio after the game on Saturday.

 “I don’t think he (Fraser) got the scrums 100% right, particularly when (Steven) Kitshoff was on the field. He got them correct when (JC Janse) van Rensburg was on the field; the penalty try was a penalty try. But before that, I thought Kitshoff was unfairly penalised and it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth. You want referees to be neutral.”

Bray will doubtless spin the video evidence  - look at how the kbbs here are in total denial. Ou JW needs help he is s o delusional. bwahahahahahhahahahaha 

Beeno why raise the issue in a new thread - the ref issue was already part of an earlier  thread and this could be added to that thread - where it will gave more substance to discussions.   

Beeno why raise the issue in a new thread - the ref issue was already part of an earlier  thread and this could be added to that thread - where it will gave more substance to discussions.   

This is a new incident ou maaaaikie and deser ves its own heading.

But i appeal to all not to be too hard on our kiwi friends as they try and face up to their many misdeeds, if indeed they are facing up to the awful truth. 

Beeno

Sanzaar has caused a problem for themselves,   The first bugger-up was with Jackson - who had two terrible games in a row.   He is now apparently on leave - he was not on any panel last weekend and is unlikely to ref games in SA again.

Now it is a problem for Fraser as well.   A report to Sanzaar will obviously be studied carefully and cannot just be ignored.   Chances are that the same would happen to Fraser as well.

I am not sure whether Fraser was guilty of anything bar poor interpretation - but as pointed out by some members - it may be too much of a co-incidence that only Kiwi teams benefit from faulty referee decisions and that sounds phony to me as well.       

Pretoria - Bulls coach John Mitchell has raised questions over the standard of refereeing once again following his side's 39-33 win over the Sharks at Loftus on Saturday. 

READ: Mallett: Why is a Kiwi refereeing a Kiwi side in SA?

Many of us have called for refs to not be from either of the two teams playing as this exposes these refs to bleating the sour grapes gang. W ill this be enough to stop such cry babies... I doubt it.

In the interests of rugby I call on all wimps, cry babies and bad sports to up their game. Beeno, it's time you showed leadership & set an example for you country men.

Plum made an observation elsewhere to illustrate where the Kiwi teams win matches they should have lost but won with the help of the referees and other match officials.   He said he thinks there were five o six matches involved - so lets see which teams were involved:-

*     The Chiefs - Bulls game in NZ

*      The Hurricanes-Sharks game in NZ

*      The Bulls - Highlanders game in Peretoria

*       The Crusaders - Waratahs game in NZ

*        The Stormers-Chiefs game in SA

There could be other games as well and that remains a problem for Sa nzaar.  They better be seen to act against the transgressors if they want to retain any creditability in this case.     

We will see on Saturday whether the outcome of the Stormerrs game was engineered to produce a Chiefs win.   If there is a repeat about what happened to the Highlanders after beating the Bulls and then being  destroyed by the  Sharks, it can be certain that it indeed was engineered as a win for the Chiefs.        

@ Mike

It would be nice if we had an outside observer who gave some insight into these decisions.

I'm not convinced that I'm not neutral but at the same time I also know that I'm not crazy.

I don't care about the teams involved but as I've said on here a hundred times...I hate refs changing the outcome of games.

They can be furious because once again, NZ rugby proved its superiority over SA rugby. SA rugby exist where NZ rugby wants them to exist.

SA rugby fancy they have good forward player rugby play, like scrummaging and stuff when the perception results from NZ rugby focusing elsewhere. NZ rugby has a complete approach to rugby, they articulate each part to achieve victory.

They do not long to appear specially good at this or that department.

What happened during that game is that the NZ side came with a different focus as usual, they focused on scrummaging. As NZ rugby is superior in everything to SA rugby, they manhandled the SA side.

The SA side frustration can be understood: they pictured themselves as able scrummagers and the NZ taught them the harsh lesson they are not.

The comment on refering is out of this world: the NZ side dominated scrums through and through and the ref used all tricks in the playbook to try to avoid validating the NZ side dominance.

The ref afforded the SA side all the time in the world to rest, to recollect between scrums, he forgot he had cards to punish repeated offenses (as scrums were repeatedly collapsed from the same side), the ref spoke to players to give consequence free speechs etc

The ref tried to cover for the SA side scrum disaster until too much was too much. It looked all too blatant for him to keep going on that track. The ref kept hope until the last second as the last scrum leading to a penalty try was a deep effort, the SA front line popped out like pop corn.

This was mentioned in the live thread: ref did as much as he could to favour the SA side and avoid them the humiliation of taking a penalty following poor scrummaging.

If one side was favoured during that game, that is the SA side. SA side can feel hard done because they were exposed. But claiming they lost because of a ref bent against them...

I looked at the scrumming again and every scrum at that.   There was at least four scrum penalties given to the Chiefs where -

*    the scrums went down and every time it was the Chiefs players on the ground - the penalties going the Chiefs way; and

*  the Chiefs tighthead going on a walkabout and the Stormners got penalized.

The first scrum followed a funny scene.   The Stormers used a rolling mole with Retallick hang onto the Stormers lock from the side of the move.  He then let loose of the lock - but never went behind the back foot of the maul and then went from the side to prevent the ball getting out.  That would mean a penalty for the side entry  by Retallick - but it was never forthcoming.  Watch minute 12 of the game.   The resultant scrum went the normal way - down by the   Chiefs and the Stormers penalized.

Another constant problem was the hanging onto the ball never penalized by the ref and one blatant interference by the Chiefs was also not penalized by the referee.   There was also a penalty awarded to the Chiefs after the ball was knocked on by the tackled player and the Stormers refused to accept that - forcing the Referee to reefer the matter and te result was a scrum.  The scrum taken down by the Chiefs and the Stormers penalized - another really poor decision.      

I can now see why the referee was reported to Sanzaar.    He made just too many bugger-ups to get away with it .        

Mozart

Prop can go on a walk- around by not scrumming straight and then scrumming outward walking forward in a scrum..  

Ka mate

In both games won - the Crusaders and the Chiefs - there was manipulation of the game by the referee and in the case of the Waratahs Franks nearly killed Beale in thesme move the Waratahs scored a try - the ref pretending not t see what happened and awarded the try.   Franks was not even penalized and was subsequently charged and copped a two week ban.

We will see on Saturday against the Sharks if the Chiefs win last week was not engineered by the ref as well.   I am absolutely sure the Stormers has had ample reason to report the ref to Sanzaar and am sure he will nor ref another game in SA this year.     

Mikie...Lol your spelling is getting atrocious...I'm getting "worrid" about you...

"The first scrum followed a funny scene.   The Stormers used a rolling mole with Retallick hang onto the Stormers lock from the side of the move."

Haha...a rolling mole

The whinging pom mantle has now become the whinging saffa it seems .

Suck it up girls and just play better.

Wardad

If a ref is reported to Sanzaar - there must be ample reason for it.   It happened to Jackson and he was withdrawn since he buggered up badly.   Fraser is even worse and may end up with withdrawal too.

Unfortunately the refereeing in a lot of games this year was atrocious and mainly by NZ referees - bad news that one.   They are getting a bad name for themselves.          

Indeed

The Kuntis were mighty successful this weekend at what appears to be what they do best lately.

I'd be pretty concerned because there seems to be more and more attention on refs and players cheating lately. 

How long before somebody breaks rank and spills the beans?

Oz were just as confident in dishing out moral advice from on high, until a Saffa suspected them of cheating, asked the camera boys to look for it and was instantly vindicated. 

It all ended with Smith and Warner crying like little girls for the press.

Careful Kuntis, I see a parallel here.

One starts to think it goes beyond a cold one and more into ritual sacrifice territory.

One wonders how pointy Hansen's hat really is.

The reff was p!ss poor. At one stage he was so eager to hand a yellow to Leads, the linesman had to calm him and rather advised a scrum for the stormers. WP normally gets a raw deal from SA reffs and a better shake crom the NZ reffs, but we got strings of poor calls from both Jackson and Fraser. Can't wait for robot reffs.

Draad 

When somebody last week posted the article by Reason which spoke directly about what we've see again this week, all the Kuntis said he was just saying that because he hates Kuntis.

Again, the entire world are crybabies. 

All hail the morally, physically and intellectually superior Kuntis.

They'll get salty as soon as they start losing a bit. Rob them with a poor reff call to make them lose and it gets worse. 

When a loser complains about the reff it sounds like sour grapes.  We need to start winning before we can fix officiating...and that's too tall a task against NZ teams ATM.

  the scrums went down and every time it was the Chiefs players on the ground - the penalties going the Chiefs way;

With those metrics, it must be hard to follow ref's decisions.

A scrum stays up because both side push each other. When one side push wrongfully, it might put the other side out of balance. It is illegal scrummaging and as a consequence, the other side goes down first. Weird they do not even teach that in those expensive schools of rugby that burden SA.

The NZ side scrum crushed the SA side scrum. To turn the game, the SA side had one and one scrum only to negate (not even win): the one that came after the ref warned the quota player who captained the SA side that a penalty try was coming.

The SA side did not have to win it: stabilizing it would have been enough. What happened is that the NZ side produced an effort that the SA side failed to counter.

The effort should have ended in a spearheaded scrum but the SA side could not take it so the front row stood up to prevent the outcome.

One scrum to get steady and the SA side failed. Poor ref did as much as he could to try to help the SA side, the SA side was simply too weak to be in the range of a ref help. Refs can only go that far when they favour a side. The SA side was beyond help.

In your dreams Trad....starting to show your colours I see.

Draad

We too easily write things off as coincidence man.

Think about it. Can it be just a coincidence that on so many occasions this year the AB teams have gotten game changing calls go their way?

Let's try this an see where we end up...

Would you bet on red five times in a row? 

In a 50/50, there is probably some equation that will tell you the odds of having red come up five consecutive times.

It'll probably be like 1/100 or 1/1000. And that's just a pure 50/50 each time. Suffice to say it does not happen regularly at all.

This season kiwi refs have no less than five possibly six times made calls that changed the outcomes matches, in favor of teams from their country.

What are the odds of kiwi refs being responsible for erroneous yet game changing calls, on five occasions, in favor of teams from their country, in the following scenarios...

A) KIWI refs are totally unbiased being neutral in all calls

B) They are trying to influence games so as to improve their side's odds of winning. 

For me, it would seem practically impossible to have had this occur in scenario A. Not this consistently.

That leaves only B.

Maybe a better SR season gives them better leverage when negotiating TV deals with the Yanks after the SA teams go and play in Europe.

Dunno man. But sumin smells, and it ain't us.

OH do you want a tissue SA fans? Honestly bitter much. Your telling me all your SA refs are honest to a fault? Your telling me when the Abs lose to SA in SA. Thats not bias reffing? Has bn on a few occasions. Hav to agree your being cry babies. Stormers would of not faired any better with a SA ref. When Cheifs were dominant up front. 

Luke

It is the first time that I can remember that the SA Rugby Franchises  has ever publicly criticized a referee like happened in this case -normally it is dealt with within the structures of Sanzaar -  and what will come out of this situation will have to  take into account in dealing with the issue.   Lets face4 facts - referees are human beings and as such liable to make mistakes - but systematic mistakes are not natural and indicates unacceptable tendencies.  ,      

Lets wait and see what happened to this complaint by the Stormers.   It seemed after Jackson fouled up badly in two matches that he has vanished from the scene.   If  the same happens to Fraser it will be a sign that something serious is in evidence.

No use to get upset by this issue and the criticism on this site on the issue before Sanzaar deals  with the issue.   Unfortunately at this stage it plays into the hands of the anti-Super Rugby supporters on site and that is also wrong.

The thing has a long history - originating from a message sent by the NZ referee association to NZ and Aussie referees to ensure that SA teams are punished when they referee matches.   Unfortunately the fool responsible cc'd a copy of the message to SA Rugby and the sh!it hit the fan.     With the promotion of Bryce Lawrence to head the training programme for NZ refs - the matter never was really settled and the impression of SA rugby supporters are strengthened by what happened in the cases of Jackson and now Fraser.   Be it as it may -  we better wait and see what happens to Fraser.                    

What is O Franks playing - he was repeatedly penalized with that offence in numbers of tests,   but not knowing what the term means - you are talking your normal crap