Future Springbok Squad

Leaving out all those players already in the 29 years and above category - ie over 32 at the time of the next WC and taking over from current Springboks I have tried to select a team for the future WC.   Difficult since there are many contenders for positions in most positions and as some is early in their careers - they may not be able to advance to international level.  In cases of over-supply in some positions and under-supply in others I put players that can do the job in the short supply positions so as to help out if players do not make the grade.

The dream squad are as follows:-

15        -     Lambie, Taute

Wings  -    Pietersen, Howard, Hougaard, Ruhle

Centers -  Steyn, Serfontein, Jordaan, Small-Smith

Flyhalfs   -  Goosen, Pollard, Jantjies

Scrummies - Pienaar, Van Zyl, Nothnagel

No 8       -   Vermeulen, Elstadt,

Flanks   -   Coetzee, Du Toit, Stander, Kolisi

Locks    -   Etzebeth, Botha, Roux, Willemse 

Props    -   Oosthuizen, Kitshoff, Malherbe, Van Wyk

Hooker  -  Du Plessis

It is likely that Bismarck will emerge as captain.   I have one problem with oosthuizen - am worried about his neck injury as that could be career- threatening.

That would mean that the following sevn players will be missing from the present Springbok team:

De Villiers, Habana, Morne Steyn,  Spies, Jannie Du Plessis, Beast, Kruger

There are some very good players I left out of the squad - and who make come through and make a name for themselves in future and there may be even other youngsters in the game not mentioned.  However, the future is so bright - I have to wear dark glasses.

Ag nee man..........why on earth have Taute at fullback, Howard on the wing and worst of all Hougaard on the wing. Here is how the list should read:

Fullbacks: Lambie, Ulrich Beyers

Wings: JP, Mvovo, le Roux, Mjekevu, Sithole, v/d Heever, Rhule, Mapoe

Centres: Frans, Taute, JJ Engelbrecht, Serfontein, Howard, Sadie, JP du Plessis, Frans Venter, Jordaan, Whitehead, Watermeyer, Small-Smith, Dries Swanepoel, de Jongh, Ebersohn, v/Wyk

Flyhalves: Goosen, Jantjies, Pollard, Fouche, Swiel, Ebersohn

Scrumhalves: Hougaard, v/Zyl, Duvenhage, Schroeder, Hofmann

Props: Beast, Coenie, Kitshoff, M.v/d Merwe, Malherbe, Frik Kirsten, Rossouw de Klerk, Kebble, v/ Dyk, Nkanyane, C.Oosthuizen

Hookers: Bismark, Chiliboy, Visagie, A.Strauss, Fourie, Burden, Mbonambi, Maku

Locks: Flip, J.Kruger, Etzebeth, Roux, Elstadt, Bresler, JA Marais, Steph du Toit, Bulbring, Willemse, Ruan Botha, J du Plessis, Roodt, E.Oosthuizen

Loosies: Spies, CJ Stander, J.Potgieter, D.Potgieter, v/d Walt, Brussouw, Ardendorff, J.Strauss, Vermeulen, Arno Botha, Carr, Koster, Kolisi, Coetzee, Rhodes, Stegman, Kankan, Deysel 

So you would be happy with the following future Bok team:

Beyers

V/d Heever

Sadie

Whitehead

Mapoe

Ebersohn

Duvenhage

Nkanyane

Burden

Kebble

Potgieter

Elstadt

Roodt

J Strauss

Spies

I wonder if that team could keep the ABs under 75 points. You are a funny chap.

No doppie how about this side:

15. Lambie 14.JP 13. Taute 12. Frans 11. Jordaan 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Etzebeth 5. Steph du Toit 6. Kolisi 7. Elstadt 8. Coetzee 16. v/Zyl 17. Serfontein 18. Mvovo 19. Kitshoff 20. Strauss 21. Roux 22. CJ Stander

Its called getting real - there is no way the Kiwi's or Oz could come up with a better future side - this one is made up of U24's but for Bismark. Not to mention the fact that we are talking future. I bet you dont even know who Beyers is???

Dave my world is a little broader than yours, I'll know who Beyers is once he becomes relevant, if he ever becomes relevant.

As for your team, it's one of countless teams...unproven. My posting just demonstrates how much dead wood you have in these long lists. And by the way JP is about to be 26....that much I do know.

Well just shows how much you do know calling Sadie, Whitehead, Elstadt, Potgieter Nkanyane and Strauss deadwood. As for Beyers, he was last years Baby Boks star fullback now playing for the Bulls Vodacom Cup side as a 20 year old - the back-up to current Bok incumbent Kirchner at the Bulls.

Broaden your horizons a little and try be a little more positive about our players - it might just put a smile on my face.

That side I chose, would beat the current Bok side, because it is fresh and dynamic - it excludes deadwood like Morne and co

Your problem is....you really believe that team would beat the current Bok team.

Saffex

Come now - beyers is playing second fiddle to Kirchner and unless he can get exposure he will not make it into the Springbok team.  Remember he has to go up four levels from where he is now.   From Vodacom Cup to CC and from there to Super 15.   Only then would he reach international level.

I differ from Mozart about Elstadt.   He is a really good prospect - but I think he would be better at no 8 than 7.

Not a problem at all Moz, my side would beat the current Bok side

Mike I am not calling for Beyers to be a Bok, I am saying he is talented and will make an impression. He is only 20 and the back-up the Kirchner who Meyer rates as our best fullback

But then of course, Meyer rates Morne as our best flyhalf. Your selective quoting of the coach is outageous.

Mike I'm fine with Eldstadt as our blindsider....he is not quite tall enough at lock. But I suspect we have better 7s eg Alberts, as long as Spies continues at 8.

Nope, I have said all along that I rate Meyer, he has maintained from the start that his selections would be conservative given he was new to the job and wanted to utilize players he knew. I did not agree with this policy but could live with it, provided that in time he evolved and selected the best players and not the tried and tested

His honeymoon period is over, I want to see progression in terms of players and how we play the game - if this does not happen, the daggers will be out and I will be joining that queue. We have far too much new talent at our disposal to be wasting time with washed up hasbeens.

As for Elstadt he is 1.98m, the same height as most locks out there

Elstadt is 1.96 metres or 6' 5". That makes him the same height as Brad Thorn......but way shorter than Vickerman 6' 8", Horwill 6' 7", Whitelock 6' 8 " and Romano 6' 6".

We have always had an advantage in height over NZ and Oz....why settle for a small, squat guy?

Nope he is 1.98m according to the Stormers site

http://www.thestormers.co.za/profiles.asp?id=1361

and according to SA rugby site he is 1.98m

http://www.sarugby.net/playerprofile.aspx?id=37430&category=&leagueid=0

I have seen sources quoting 1.96 and 1.98. To me he looks about Danie sized....the fact that he plays flank, supports this.

Mozart

Sorry - I checked on Wkipedia - he is 1.98.  He lloked tall to me and I do not doubt that one.

Nope the sources that count state 1.98m and he plays flank because the Stormers have Etzebeth and Bekker as their locks - much like the Baby Boks played 2m tall Steph du Toit at 7 in order to accommodate Willemse and Botha at lock - all 3 were quality players having all played S15 rugby this season.

Danie is 1.98m

http://www.sarugby.net/playerprofile.aspx?id=21229&category=&leagueid=0

But Victor is 2.00, Bakkies 2.02 and Bekker 2.08. The point is why would we want to down size to these flanker locks. Elstadt is closer at 1.98 and 112 Kgs to Kankowski at 1.95 and 108 kgs.....than he is to Bakkies at 2.02 m and 120kgs.

Eben Etzebeth is our future 4. At 2.03 ms and 117 kgs, he has the right credentials. And he'll put on at least another 5kgs as he matures. All he needs is experience....he will be a way better lock 4 years from now.

And other countries will find locks that match the Etzebeths for size.....nobody is looking for a Danie sized number 4.

Elstadt is one of these guys you start on the flank and maybe plays lock for the last 15 minutes to provide mobility. He is not destined to be a dominant number 4 lock.

Yeah chances are he will play 7 which is fine, but he is certainly tall enough for lock and the guy weighs 118kg as per the Stormers website. He is a big unit

Etzebeth weighs 120kg these days as per the Stormers website. The ideal lock partner moving forward for Etzebeth is hard but Pieter Steph du Toit - this 19 year old is the real deal. At 2m and 117kg, he plays it just like Etzebeth does

 Guys all the players mentioned I am sure will rise to the top in SA Rugby.

Thankfully we all agree that any Springbok team excludes Morne, Flip, Chilliboy, D Potgoeter, Kruger and Basson.

Great opinions but civility must prevail.

Glad to see snapster quoting reliable sources. Elstadt is 1.98 m and weighs in at 118 kg.He is a big lad and aggressive who to my mind is a 7 and not an 8. We have phenomenal forwrd talent coming through.

What puzzles me though is that snapster cant accept either the offical springbok website, the bulle website or even wee matfields own statement re his weight - a mere 108/7 kgs which is 1 kg heavier than Marcell Coetzee. Hence his complete failure as a lock apart from lineouts. Yet some lament his retirement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bwahaahahahahahahahahahahaha never fails to have me rolling in the aisles!

Actually the SA rugby site often does not update their stats, they have Elstadt at 112kg, which is what he probably was when he started playing. The reliable stats is the Stormers website.

As for Victor, I'm sticking with the site that had him at 115kg, for I am relying on my eyes on this one not some pathetic anti that you had against Victor. As I have always said, one only had to look at Victor at 2m tall to realise there was no way in hell he could only weigh 1kg more than Coetzee or 5kg less than Jean - Beenkop are you really that stupid? Do you honestly believe Matfield weighed the same as Albert v/d Bergh who was a stringbean?

I believe what he said about his weight, the offical blue bull website and the offical springbok website.

Recently he was quoted as being only 102 kgs as he had lost weight. The guy is a rake.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahha none so blind as those who have been deluded. matfiled was along stringbean and the most unphyical lock we have probably ever had.

You singular website is talking rubbish and so are you.

End of story

all great players here....well one thing we can agree upon is that there is wonderfull backline talent on display...just hope the super 15 coaches has the guts to blood them correctly and develop them. time will tell but we need to pick them now and guide them to greatness...we have the talent but we need to vision and forward thinking to be there to

As we have discovered many moons back - Beenkop, you are stupid

to be honest stats are sometimes misleading....i once watched a player being rated 118kg's only to be measured a week later at 105kg...from what i know that might be a bit of a health hazzard to from 13kg a week huh

elstadt is a decent player that we all can agree upon nevermind the finer details. he can play a danie roussow style of crossover flank lock. he just needs some skills development

Well said muncher......hell boxers put on 6lbs from the weigh in to the fight, quite regularly. Weight will always be a debate.....height should be accurate though.

To make up a squad of 30 I will include : Chilliboy,  Kitschoff,Andries Bekker, Piere Spies, Heinrich Brussouw, Piet Van Zyl,Mvovo and Aplon.

Bokman

I think that we are not on the same wavelength.   When I wrote about the issue earlier I was thinking about the enxt WC - not the present immediate squad.    In general I agree with your present team as reflected - but amny of the players are in fact really very near or past their sell-by date.   I would not ever think that De Villiers will still be in the team then.    That means that  the following would be out by then:

Beat, Jannie, Schalk (if he ever plays again), Ruan and Jean.   Of the bench players Strauss was very poor against the English and spolit his copybook badly.  Worried about Coenie's neck injury - that could spell disaster for him as a person (same could happen like happened with Van Biljon).   If he comes back and play his normal game - definitely, but otherwise either Kitshoff or Malherbe or both.   Flip is a definite no-no - there ar better youngsters around than him (eg Du Toit).   Agree with the rest of the bench though.   Of the other players in your squad of 30 - I would not play any ot them except perhaps Kitshoff (if he is not on the bench) and Piet van Zyl.   The rest are even now not worth anything other than perhaps on Super 15 level.