Get rid of Meyer

Saffex 
Pathetic selections.  Maybe a few shocks will wake up Meyer to the fact that he is on the road to nowhere.   
With that squad we are going to go the normal way - and lose to Australia and New Zeaaland in the RC.

 Replace him with who? Even though theres some poor selections and notable omissions, you can still get a fantastic team and bench from the squad.

 Have we heard thsi refrain befre from snapster and ou maaaikie. Will the EGG land again on the same spot. We shall see. So far Meyer has done pretty well. Can still pick a good test 23

Like all teams in South Africa we do have to select a number of quotas. Every coach has to do this, so some of the marginal players that missed the cut can thank BBEE affirmative action.
The main question marks are really the players from overseas who are not the best in their positions. This is encouraging players to go play overseas. 
Some question marks are over the amount of old players in the squad. If a player is going to get limited game time, surely it is better to go for the younger player. 
Habana, du Preez, Matfield and Schalk are the best in their positions so no issue with these players.Schalk is still a great player, just seems very injury prone these days.
More contentious of the old crew are-Kirchner- offers little on attack. Not many fullbacks in SA, but I would rather we play one of the form wingers that can kick at 15 if we have depth issues.
Morne- Predictable, but flyhalf is an area where SA struggle with depth. We have Lambie injured, and Goosen seemingly about to get injured after every collision. I would have preferred to see Boshoff get the call up- much better in defence, and also a better runner.
Steenkamp- SA player of the year in 2010. Was initially poor in his first tests under Meyer but . Did show signs of improving in Meyers era.
Brits- He has proved he is too light for the international stage. Would have rather stuck with a local player like the Sharks backup hooker. 
Bakkies- He is solid, but surely it would be better to blood a youngster in the absence of Ezebeth. Jaques Du plessis could have taken this position.

Brussow and Jacques Du Plessis deserved to be in the squad.

 We are always in the "build for the future"-mode. The question is whether this is the right attitude. If we now decide to chuck out all of most of the "old" players in preparation for the 2015 RWC, we will have a squad where the "older players" in the squad are probably 26/27 years old. Come the next RWC we  will have the same issue again. Throw away the old players, i.e. the 26/27 year olds from the the 2015 squad.

If we always throw out the"old" players, when  are we ever going to go into a RWC with  an experienced squad where the core are around 30 year olds. I just do not buy this bullshit that a 31/4 year old is past it and cannot be in  his prime. We like to quite the cliche of "if you are good  enough. you are old enough". If that is the case, then why can't it also be a case of "when you are good enough, you are young enough"?

Of course it  is easy to dream up so-called deficiencies which essentially are nothing bit opinions in any case. Some of us then start getting very selective with "stats" as well. A very popular practice is to constantly use one  specific game and negate any other game that proves the exact opposite. Some even go as far as constantly hammering on  one or two specific incident to judge an entire rugby career. One player's "defensive stats" are crucial in condemning said player for the rest of his life. The same, or vary similar "stats" of another player is negated and brushed aside as a once-of isolated occurrence.

"Habana, du Preez, Matfield and Schalk are the best in their positions so no issue with these players." I agree with you but some would say that you are a stupid prick who knows fuck all about rugby.

"Bakkies- He is solid, but surely it would be better to blood a youngster in the absence of Ezebeth." Why? Bakkies has been playing actively since the end of 2011,bar two lay-offs through injury. What is interesting is that none of those injuries could be ascribed to age, deterioration  of his body etc. The first was for an achilles injury in 2011 which delayed his début for Toulon and the second was the broken arm recently. In addition Bakkies is three years younger than Victor, who has had very limited game-time over the last three years compared to Bakkies. So, no issue with Victor but not so with Bakkies?

I think we are too emotional about this and we are forgetting that  at the same stage of Jake White's stint there was a very active public campaign, led by the media, to have Jake White fired immediately.

 We will see how far Matfield and Bruger make it...All they need are a few good hard knocks and thats it,the finish line is in sight.They wont make it to the RC and if they do,not even half way.Mark my words. The same way a long time a go I told all of you to stop the pipedream debate about who will be the flyhalf when I said it would be Morne Steyn and IT IS MORNE STEYN!!!!!!!!!! So hush up,and watch...

@ceradyne,

ur last post was fantastic read,
i think u should be the spokesperson for those in favour of the older and senior players, the arguments are very sound and its a pity that 90% of the time u spend here is cos of the hard on u have for mikey.

i have watched next to no mactches involving bakkies, but i read an interview with ali williams in a NZ rugby magazine a while back where he was singing bakkies praises.
maybe there is mreit to what u say, but bakkies even in his prime was enever rated as highly by those outside of SA, so his inclusion is till a waste of time IMO.

ive come round on both burger and matfield, i believe that both have a lot to offer leading to the RWC, but meyer could have done a lot more with developing the younger inexperienced palyers who only seem to get gametime when there is really no other choice.

 ".........but bakkies even in his prime was enever rated as highly by those outside of SA,......."

According to who?

"According to who?"
Ceradunce, not sure if you're just pretending to sound this stupid but just in case you're not, he's saying according to people outside South Africa. That's who.

 Sasuke you're speaking out of your arse, I've come across plenty of people that rated Bakkies as one the best locks in the world in his prime, second only to Matfield.

 Ceradyne
I will be civil in this reponse.  You are always battling it out about Bakkies Botha amd Morne Steyn in particular and singing their praises - so one has to accept that.
First of all - the question does not and should not center around the age of players - rather than their ability to perform on the field of play.   It is always very difficult to assess the performances of players in foreign clubs = since they essentially play a different style of rugby from those in the SH.   So I accept you may be right about some of the said players.  
Nobody in his right mind should use the stats in one game as a norm,  Stats are useful over a serious of games since it gives an indication of tendencies in players.   If fou instance a player constantly over a series miss 25$ of attempted tackles - that player has a defense problem.
Now back to Bakkies and Morne.   There is no record that can be used to see how effective he has been for Toulon.   He was off for months with a broken arm - and the only match I saw recently was the Heineken Cup final where he was not very noticeable.  In the two tests lhe played in last year he was poor in the Scottish test and average in the French test - nothing to show that he still belongs in the Springbok team ahead of other players.
The second issue centers around Morne.  He was contracted by Stade Francais and in the last six months mostly use to play from the bench.   Despite his big name he did not really fit into the Stade Francais team and they preferred Plisson as their flyhalf.   Plisson was not selecred for the Aussie tour of France - he is probably third in the French hierarchy of flyhalfs - and if Plisson is not good enough for France (and obviously a better flyhalf than Morne) what makes Morne the choice as Springbok flyhalf? 
In essense it is not easy to compare the standard of rugby played at club level in Europe and Japan and SH rugby.   Players like Kaino claimed that Japan rugby is eless strenuous and the layers returning from there are slower and more unfit than they used to be.   In the case of the other comnpetitions - ie Aviva, Top 14 and the Heineken Cup there are no doubt that some teams in the Heineken Cup could potentially be on par with Super 15 - but the majority of clubs are not even CC level so lets remember what is involved in showing form in NH rugby.  Yje ultimate is there is not a reliable norm for the assessment of NH players and most selected for the Springbok squad are there because of their reputation and one can argue because of their previous association with the coach. 
The issue here is that selection should not be based on reputation or experience.  Reputation selections are in my view a no-no and if experience is not coupled to top performance that should also be a no-no.
In my view age is not the factor at all.  If you have a player older than 30 and a a younger competitor - the over 30 player should show that he is indeed superior in performance to the younger player.    If he is not - and even if he is on par - preference should rather be given to the younger player.   The question remains is Bakkies better than the younger players like Etzebeth and De Jager?   There is no proof about that - but I doubt very much whether he is in fact even on par with the more active and even stronger youngsters.  
Morne is another problem.  His game time for Stade Francais was not good enough to justify his selection for the Springbok team.   The last game of Stade Francais I saw - he was not good enough at all when he came from the bench for the Club.  In essense Morne's form at present is extremely questionable and with that in mind he should never be in teh Springbok squad.  
I accept without reservations the statement of De Villiers - he said at his age (31) it is necessary to train twice as hard as he used to at the age of 29 - to maintain the same level of performance as he used to maintain at 29.   That be so - are the older players playing club rugby in fact subscribe t the same norm?  I doubt that very much.            
               

Playing for money bags Toulon is a sign of other people rating him.

Rooinek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1445 RE: Get rid of Meyer
June 01, 2014, 19:08:23 "According to who?"
Ceradunce, not sure if you're just pretending to sound this stupid but just in case you're not, he's saying according to people outside South Africa. That's who.

Uhmmm. The hamster moered off the wheel again? According to which people  outside of South Africa? I have not read about many people who do not rate him? Read Shezza's reply. Bakkies is then not the eight highest paid rugby player in the world for nothing.

Top 10 Highest-Paid Rugby Players in the World by Pramesh Pudasaini on February 12, 2014 in Other sports 8. Bakkies Botha – Toulon – €41,000 (~$55,900 USD) per month

 windpomp I have to agree with you. Bakkies has been one of our greatest locks ever.Cheaser it is an insult to mention wee victor in the same breath as bakkies. Bakkies carried the show pony throughouit his career doing the work of two locks.
Matfiled is a shockingly bad lock. His lineout work is the exception. He does not meet the job description of a lock.
Bakkies proved on the last NH tour he is still international class. No wonder he earns so much and plays fro a top overseas side.

 I like your description of Toulon  I heard they have a budget of 25 million Euro to contract players and I think they pay the players handsomely.  Who the hell is sponsoring them with that kind of money being thrown around for a single club?
    

 I will say though that we dont now need Bakkies and we definitely dont need wee matfield stuffing up the tight five by his absence and messing up our backline -that is the LAST thing we want!!!

 Mike Toulon like other overseas clubs have massive resources when translated into Rands. Hence forget about the insane notion that by barring overseas players from playing for the Boks you will succeed in keeping them here. So naieve!!!

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10968 RE: Get rid of Meyer
June 01, 2014, 20:50:03  I like your description of Toulon  I heard they have a budget of 25 million Euro to contract players and I think they pay the players handsomely.  Who the hell is sponsoring them with that kind of money being thrown around for a single club?

Toulon's main sponsor is Volkswagen but they had to do something first to attract that kind of sponsor. Their president Mourad Boudjellal is a fanatic about the club and he started the building process by personally sponsoring the salaries of the likes of Tana Umaga and George Gregan. He has recently said that they have turned around the turnover of the club to such and extent that he no longer have to pay someof those salaries from his own pocket. Boudjellal was born and bred and still lives in Toulon.

Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9840 RE: Get rid of Meyer
June 01, 2014, 20:53:36  Mike Toulon like other overseas clubs have massive resources when translated into Rands. Hence forget about the insane notion that by barring overseas players from playing for the Boks you will succeed in keeping them here. So naieve!!!

The salaries that those players earn are massive in any currency even in GBP.

Can't be serious Saffex.
There is a lack of viable alternatives. The Boks had an excellent year last year - losing only to an AB team that was one of the best versions of all time. Winning at Suncorp for the first time ever, sweeping the EOYT including winning in France for the first time in 16 years. Meyer brings passion and excitement. Watch him in the coaches box - holy cow, if that doesn't make you want to play for the guy !! Watch his Boots n All interview - the guy wants to smash every opponent. Who cares if his selections aren't exactly what everyone wants - no reason to call for him to go. His job to select is so much harder than Hansen or McKenzie. They don't have to deal with quota's and they have a clear overseas policy from their unions. Meyer's only directive and expectation from SARU and the SA public is to win. It is certainly not an environment that allows any leeway for experimentation or patience with youthful inexperienced players.
No better man for the job IMO  - and this coming from a Stormers man who was skeptical of his initial appointment.

 Good post oimatey but we are dealing with prejudiuce here. How could you fire Meyer now given his win ratio or even better his loss ratio. You have to give him a chance.
I think most sensible posters here realise that.