08 Feb 2014, 01:59#2
Interesting stats Moz - haven't seen those before but puts things in perspective. I think we forget just how small we are compared to nature and its arrogant to think that our tiny efforts can make a real difference against the natural laws of nature. Its absurd the amount of money and extra expense the "green" movement has brought by way of needless legislation and restrictions.
Having said that, the waste and excess I see here in this country is off the charts disgusting. Easy come, easy go. The earth's natural resources can't keep up.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Feb 2014, 04:49#3
There are some things that make sense Matey. For example there are companies that deconstruct houses floorboard by floorboard. It costs a little more, but all the material is saved. On the whole though it's easy come, easy go.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Feb 2014, 09:10#4
Dr Moz a great piece. Its always nice when the gullible like ou rooitwit get some real education on a matter. Hence my attempts to show them the ludicrousy of believing thta the universe created itself out of nothing using using the laws of gravity. Hahahahahahaha how absurd or how gullible does one get.
I however support all attmepts at sustainable living and the environmental degrading etc has to stop. Species must not be lost etc etc.
Expect the attempts at carbon taxes to continue as we move towards one world governement and finally rule by anti christ. The financial crises is another such tactic. Fear will be used to drive their one world agenda
STSun-Tzu
Club Pro713 posts
08 Feb 2014, 12:05#5
There is no such thing as global warming. Did you happen to know that we are carbon based life-forms? Did anyone stop to consider that it's one of the building blocks of life? Without enough carbon in the Earth - and the levels have dropped considerably - you have death! It's eugenics, plain and simple. Global warming is another unscientific scam, just like over-population; they happen to all go hand-in-hand with this vision of a totalitarian UN established Global political and financial system. They use these un-scientific lies to horde resources to themselves, tax you into extinction. Did you know that the one and only study on carbon emissions - a study with data ranging over nearly fifty years, if not so - was attacked? Yet we have these models based on total fantasy stuffed down our throat. Just as we are shown the polar ice caps out of season to create the delusion that the Earth is melting away (interestingly, there is a surplus of Polar Bears!). Why? Read about Transhumanism. Read up on the Age of Aquarius and Theosophy. You may not believe it yourself, but the people with power in this world do, and that makes it a very grave problem for you all. Look how much GDP is spent on this technology; the so called 'high-tech' cities where they design from the ground up an environment for total control over you - those allowed to live. To make all of this easier to understand: Scientists require money, big corporations and bankers have that money, the scientists who toe-the-line get the money, the agenda that is held by the elite is supported by science and your average Joe goes along with everything he is told.
08 Feb 2014, 14:25#6
Its a misnomer "global warming " anyone with half a brain understands that its about weather extremes ,we have more severe weather events than ever [ Australia has had its hottest year since records were kept ] all naysayers point out the tiny minority of scientists with an opinion that differs to the vast majority [ cherry picking anyone ?] and seems to think this proves their pet theory while disingenuously ignoring the mountain of evidence to the contrary .As for overpopulation were it not for the advances in crop yields etc it would be the same story of famines every year .Just utter rubbish from people who think that being contrary makes them ahead of the pack ....pfffftttt ....
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Feb 2014, 15:46#8
By the way I love the term "naysayers". I'm a "yeahsayer"....lets get on with life and get the politicians out of our lives.
ABABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
08 Feb 2014, 15:51#9
First of all, there's a huge consensus btwin the scientific community about the responsability of the human being in the increase of CO2 levels which are taking the Earth to a drastic climatic change unknown for the human race since it's considered human.
As with all the subjects there's a variable proportion of scientists who denies that hipothesis (here it comes your former Melbourne University teacher) and question it. This questioning force the defenders of the hypothesis to provide new evidences to probe what they are saying.
At this moment the evidences provided are so overhelming (one of most visible btwin the tones of evidences is that as soon as in 2018 there will be one day in the artic summer when there will be no ice at all in the artic sea, something that didn't happen in the last 3 million years) and the consensus about the implication of the humanbeing in the global warming is so huge that it can be said that it's unanimous.
Talking about conspiracy theories of the financial and political powers imposing the believe in a non-existing climate change for the establishment of a world domination, is to have no clue of how the world runs. These powers have been precisely built in the current framework which is leading to the climate change, they need the survviving of this framework for its own survival so they are going to do whatever it's in their hands to mantain it.
And what's the point about the vulcanoes? when the Siberian Trapps exploted 250 millions years ago the level of CO2 and other substances spreaded around the world was so huge that aside it puting all together the vulcanoes that you mention, the bush fires and the same human activity, they would be insignificant. It caused the Great Dying, affected all life on Earth, and is estimated to have killed 90% of species living at the time. It could happen again in any moment but this doesn't mean that we don't have to care about provoking it by ourselves.
Here's an article of what could happen, not what is going to happen because there are diferent possible scenarios. This is one of the worst but one that could happen:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175785/tomgram%3A_dahr_jamail%2C_the_climate_change_scorecard/
The simple possibilty of this to happen should make us change eveything but ever yone is free to believe in what he wants.
STSun-Tzu
Club Pro713 posts
08 Feb 2014, 16:51#11
ABasquefan, you are utterly clueless.
08 Feb 2014, 16:54#12
Actually it is about extreme weather events ,like the one your living in right now and just because its not 40+like here in Oz you think that the many thousands of scientists who have reached consensus on the reality of "global warming " are wrong ? What based on on something you did at uni ? pfffttt what a load of twaddle same old rubbish espoused by guys who have vested interest in maintaining their old ways .And your not the only person who has worked with statistical models even a mug like me has used them [I used to work for the government compiling and massaging stats for the CES ]And the economist isnt the be all and end all of scientific knowledge now is it ? You have a model to show all the PI islanders why they are all going under ? or people in the Arctic watching glaciers and so on vanish at an ever increasing rate ? Or why places like Chicago and Adelaide are witnessing two extremes of weather ? or why as I stated that we here in Oz have had not only our hottest average temps on record but more days over the old 100f temps [37 +] than ever before ....all as predicted by the CSIRO among other actual scientific organizations [ that are'nt the economist ] And anyone who tries to prove their superiority by spouting on about their Educational Qualifications is suss in my book ,your not the only person with a degree [ hell one of my boys who was a very average high school student is contemplating his Phd at the age of 24 so big deal ]Every man and his dog has or is in the midst of getting his degree around here so pfffft again .
ABABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
08 Feb 2014, 18:32#14
@sun-tzu,
great line of argument!
@mozart,
To have developed a mathematical model or having a PhD degree are no arguments, using them as arguments is dishonest and very presumptuous.
With all your PhD degrees you are wrong. The mathematical models used are not overshooting the reality, on the contrary they are subestimating the speed and the consequences of the climate change. One of the reasons, not the only one, is because they don't incorporate the feedback processes that take place in the natural world.
Each time the IPCC (more than 3000 scientists of very diferent areas) has published his report (1990, 1995, 2001 and 2007) each time it has to say that they were wrong because the process is faster than expected and the consecuences would be worst than expected.
This year they have to publish their last report and they'll say the same.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Feb 2014, 18:47#19
I miss-read the title of this topic & thought it said "Global warming crusaders in perspective". Wasn't quiet sure what the Crusaders had to do with global warming but was ready to read with interest
09 Feb 2014, 01:55#23
You quote the fact that Chicago is in the midst of an extreme weather cycle to try and disprove climate change ? And as I have said its not so much the average temperature rise thats the problem its the extremes ,highs and lows .Your construct is a house of cards.Polar ice melt and glacial shrinking is an indisputable fact ,like many in the US you will do anything to not change as sharkbok has said yanks are the major cause of this and the ozone layer hole [ which they tried to deny as well ] you should go and tell those silly people in their Pacific Homelands that they arent losing their homes to rising water levels ,your feed back loopy multivariant phurphologgcal proves its all in their wee little heads .Oh and Ian Pilmer works for mining companies so no conflict of interest there eh ? pfffttt
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Feb 2014, 02:58#25
Wardud is very angry. A civil debate is apparently a reason for insults and sarcasm. Unfortunately he is also a fool. It's not climate change, that's the cop out that can't be easily analyzed....it's global warming. That's always been the assertion, and without that there is no cause for concern.
And here's the revelation fool.......temperature is governed by a probability distribution. For global warming to exist that probability distribution has to shift higher....with a higher mean and higher 5 per cent tails on both sides. But if you are setting new lows all over the world, it's unlikely the probability distribution has shifted much. So yes, extreme events do tell us something, but extreme highs and extreme lows.
The fact is you are just another media led gullible fool, wildly asserting truths you don't even understand. Pathetic.
09 Feb 2014, 05:45#26
Fact is your the same as the corporate mouth pieces who latch on to " global warming " as the only part of "climate change " .it is you who seem to be angry that someone has the temerity to call you out on your intellectual dishonesty ,you should know that cherry picking and ignoring anything inconvenient to your argument has no place in rational discourse [ nor has childish name calling ].Pathetic is you quoting a well known paid mouthpiece for the mining lobby and starting off using 28 days of below average temps to disprove climate change ! Calling others names and droning on about your degree to try and shout down others while providing "facts ' that only someone who is utterly blind to whats happening not only in your corner of the world but world wide is utterly despicable and all the modelling provided by corporate pets [ who you blindly follow as it suits your lifestyle no doubt ] wont give back whats been lost .You are not as clever as you think and it seems to be a tender spot doesnt it ? you have provided nothing to disprove the changes in climate [ your quoted source isnt a meteorologist but a geologist owned body and soul by the mining council here ,scientists for climate change have waded in because of actual physical changes that needed explanation ] To reiterate you show what a sad little man you are by resorting to playground name calling in lieu of reasoned discourse when someone challenges your pontificating ,maybe you should try building snowmen instead of a logical argument ,you have some actual material to build with in that regard .
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Feb 2014, 06:09#27
Wardud, you started the name calling. And you are ignoring the temperature chart above. Sitting right in front of your face. Those are NASA observations. But no matter, you are an acolyte, and I have found there is no point discussing things with your type of angry bigot. Man you are some expert on military matters and now on global warming.
What I do find amusing is when you NZ and Aussie types rant about the US industrial state. Failing that industry somebody from Japan would be your boss. But two generations later it's all forgotten. The sad thing is NZ is a well liked country over here, regarded as a friend.
What a tosser.
09 Feb 2014, 06:44#28
No i did not ,I said that the naysaying of global warming /global climate change was twaddle its you who have taken the childish option of name calling .Take your "evidence " to Kiribati then they can just ignore the water lapping at the door and forget about buying land in Fiji to relocate .No one but you is ranting about the US industry ,what I find amusing is people like you who want to maintain the status quo as it suits them and bugger anyone else and what does WW2 have to do with anything ?I bet your just jealous that someone else not you solved Fermats last Theorem eh old boy ? Do you smoke a pipe and wear elbow patches to add that air of gravitas to your intellectual pontification at parties ? Just to set the scene for all the lowly plebs ? Having weathered the full force of your intellectual wrath I find myself quite under whelmed ...tosser..wow ...thats it ? thats what you are left with ? And where does this bigotry that you allude to come from ? care to point it out ? Oh and by the way my wifes family in Washington State includes a revered uncle who is a Pacific War veteran so you might want to keep your assumptions to yourself .Your constant deflections and abuse to try and avoid any rational discourse shows how bereft you are of anything approaching the intelligence you seem to think you possess .tosser .....intellectual giant you are ....haha charade you are to paraphrase a well known rock band .....
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Feb 2014, 07:23#29
Look at your first little hissyfit of a post again. Totally antagonistic. The evidence above, which is not in dispute shows no temperature increases since 2000. That appears to have sailed right over your thick head, probably because your mind is shut. You make about 15 silly points none of which bear on the facts....and I make no assumptions about wife's uncle. Only about tossers like you who hate the very think that enabled your happy little lifestyle.
The funniest bit was your insistence that climate change is the issue not global warming. The climate will always change, always has. Hell 200 years ago you could walk across the ice on the Thames. Without significant warming there is no ocean rise you poor intellectual midget.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Feb 2014, 08:29#30
To put a little focus into the discussion: who are the RWC champions, who are the S15 champions, who had an undefeated season at the international test level last year...?
As even these facts are disputed on this site do you really think we have we have any hope of reaching agreement on topics such as global warming?
Can we agree on the basics first please?
Ps sunglasses donned for global warming purposes
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Feb 2014, 08:51#31
Wardad, Moffie's understanding of the concept of global warming can be summed up by a comment he made a few years ago which went along the lines of . . . "Boy, it's cold in Chicago tonight . . . so much for those global warming theories!"
At the time I tried to explain to Moffie the differences between daily temperatures (as in night being cooler than day) and seasonal temperatures (as in winter being cooler than summer) as opposed to global mean temperatures over decades and even centuries, but Moffie didn't grasp the concept then, just as he doesn't grasp it now. I'm not even joking or exaggerating. For Moffie, a cold winter's night in Chicago means that there's no global warming. Period.
If it's any consolation, he threw the same little self-righteous and indignant tantrum then . . . as he does whenever he's made to look a fool . . . which is often. His behaviour is so predictable . . . he makes a pompous, arrogant yet unsubstantiated and ignorant statement . . . someone tries to explain to him what he's missing . . . Moffie immediately starts prattling about his supposed PHD and when it fails to impress anyone he gets all tearful and calls the person trying to point him in the right direction rude and mean . . . he then descends into petty and childish name-calling and finally he bangs on about the issue for months and even years on end trying to justify his stupid and uneducated views. It's the same old pattern.
My advice, don't try engaging the childish, deceitful and self-absorbed fool in meaningful debate, just treat him with the contempt he deserves and have a laugh at how seriously the puffed up and ancient old coot takes himself.
The deniers can squawk and squeal all they like . . . the fact that mankind is influencing the weather in any way, shape or form is worrying enough for me and we should be cleaning up our disgusting mess instead of trying to justify why we should be allowed to continue polluting our planet.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Feb 2014, 09:31#32
Com'on Rooi, Moz is a character & I enjoy him a lot.
I like his pompous arrogance & indignation & self his righteous condescension. We all have these elements in our character (some more than others) but Moz combines them in a unique & interesting way. The site would not be the same without him, I am sure you agree
Not that this grants him or any of us immunity from the occasional light-hearted dig though, lol
09 Feb 2014, 09:43#33
Rooie I have to concur 100% with that assessment ,especially the pompous old coot bit hahahaha ,and yes your right it isnt worth the expenditure of energy on someone so utterly self absorbed .
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Feb 2014, 09:54#34
Hi Wardad, how are you doing mate?
Fun & games in the asylum as usual
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Feb 2014, 12:48#35
"The site would not be the same without him, I am sure you agree."
I definitely agree that this site would not be the same without Moffie. We'd have fewer spiteful and childish tantrums, less sanctimonious finger-pointing and a lot less lies.
10 Feb 2014, 05:57#40
Which part of climate change dont you get ? look out your window [ if you ask the nurse politely she might wheel you over there ] picking one part of a complex subject and trying to beat it to death with your rubbish [ did they give you a "phd" just to stop you boring them to tears ? ] all the little charts in the world wont wash away the extreme weather changes .And quoting pilmer again ? an utterly discredited mining corporation shill ? hahahahaha ! sad old geezers gotta look out for each other I suppose .