Goosen's Greatest Obstacle

I was given a retort in a long passed thread regarding Goosen's capacity to develop physically. The poster, whom I cannot recount by name, was grossly lacking in knowledge of human physiology. So here I present the greatest obstacle to Goosen's potential test career. For those not in the know, there are what is called somatotypes. There are essentially three body types: Ectomorph, Endomorph and Mesomorph. There are varying degrees of between types, I myself, as is Arnold Schwarzenegger, an ecto-mesomorph. Then there is the endo-mesomorph. Goosen leans very strongly towards ectomorphism which is:

"A predominantly ectomorphic individual is long, slender and thin, and therefore power and strength sports are perhaps not suitable as their slight build leaves them susceptible to injuries. While they can easily get lean and hard, their lack of musculature severely limits their chances in sports requiring mass. Ectomorphs dominate endurance sports and gymnastics."

Not only is Goosen an ectomorph, but so too is Jantjies! Goosen has the feet and hands with a great turn of pace. Whilst he is certainly not the individual attacking force that most would have you believe, his understanding of components of attacking movements and patterns is very strong. However, as New Zealand exposed last year, he cannot assert himself physically on the gainline, and it's this vulnerability which severely cripples his core strengths. His defence is another liability. Through Goosen and Taute New Zealand were able to make in-roads through the Bok defence which got them out of severe trouble as the Bok pack had them as rubble before their feet. How much Goosen can develop depends very much on his skeletal structure, and the fact that ectmorphs have long 'stringy' muscle strands compared to either endormorphs and mesomorphs means in contact spots they are at a severe disadvantage.

Failed Ectomorphs: Nokwe, Chavangha, JJ, Giteau, Cooper.

JJ long slender and thin.........

JJ the thin bloke

Sun Tzu

Unlike you I have met Arnold Schwarzenegger through a school friend of his in 1969/70 - who knew him from his early youth.   Matter of fact both Schwazennegger's father and my friend's father were policemen at the same police station in Graz - and they grew up together. 

Schwarzenegger during his school years was a slender lad  - and suffered from lung problems.  He then took up body building to overcome his lung problem and developed his body to a level where he became Mr Universe.   Those are facts not fiction.   Yes he did develop a very muscled body - but not on the basis that slender people cannot build their bodies up - it does happen and has happened in the case of Scnwazenegger.

Cleancut

This guy tries to be clever - but lose sight of facts.  He went completely astray with his Arnold Schwarzenegger story - not knowing his background at all. 

I do not know why he says Giteau was a failure.   I saw him from quite nearby when I was in Perth watching a test in which the Springboks played against Australia in Perth.   He was not tall - more built like Paul Jordaan and Naas Botha  - but was very well-muscled and a really top player.   He scored 684 points for Australia between 2002 and 2011.   if that is a failure I do not know what a success is.

Cancer, I stick a pick on here and you start getting all horny talking about semen and all that.....do you have no shame?

What you and your boyfriend get up to is none of our business.

I think I am going to call you Aids from now on  

Cleancut

Personally I think Arnold did use steroids - but he has always denied it.  He has had kidney problems and that is always a sign of excessive steroids usage.   However, in his early years use of performance enhancing drugs was not really a consideration or controversial and not viewed negatively like at present and nobody really cared what was going on. 

Birdbrain - at least I do not care what you write - you ignorant twit.  I give things that I know has a sound basis - not like you who believe that Alberts is anything but clumsy and as fat as a pig.   So much so - he cannot last more than 30 minutes on a rugby field before he becomes utterly useless and need replacement.   

Pine

As a relative of the Pienaar family - and I assume you are as well - you are a disgrace for that family and a complete idiot.   You made my day - proving that a moron  can be a perfect asshole.   

Saffex

Sun Tzu started this discussion based on something he read about bodily built - but ended up with the wrong conclusions.   His first example was  Schwarzenneger - in whose case he was clueless, because he had no knowledge of the background of the case.  

He then went on to describe various players according to his categories and went overboard on the issue.   He ignores the weight-height co-ordinates of athletes and ended up with deductions that can only be regarded as quaint/funny.   He based his arguments on what he has seen on TV or perhaps at a rugby match.   Basically impossible to do that without taking into account the said weight - height co-ordinates.

A very strongly-built player of 1,90 meters will weigh between 95 to 100 kgs.   A slightly shorter player like Goosen should weigh about 92 to 97 kgs to be regarded as strongly built.   Without those co-ordinates the performance are affected - to big a difference on the high side affects the speed of athletes/rugby players.

Take for example a case like Willem Alberts.  He is 1,94 tall and weighs 121 kgs.  As a muscular person he should weigh between 105 and 112 kgs.   Fat weighs a lot more than muscles and it shows that he is carrying anything up to 13 kgs of fat in his system.  It is indeed no surprise that he is as slow as he is and he is clumsy as well. 

Some players have a broader body frame than others - but you will find that they show that at a very early age and that is evident throughout their childhood.   A person would find they are generally shorter and more sturdy - on the rugby field they are normally in the front row and end up being heavier than the co-ordinates I referred to earlier.   That type of build allows for an extra 10 to 12 kgs in muscle weight.

This type of argument relating to specific people is normally spurious - because we have no direct contract with them and apart from an occasional photo canno t come up with logical conclusions.     

I doubt his "body type" has anything to do with Goosen's problems. People are rarely purely an ecto, endo or mesomorph, it is accepted by those that use this classification of body types that individuals have a combination of 2 or even all 3 types.   Rather as someone in the distant past succinctly said " its not the size of the dog in a fight, but rather the size of the fight in the dog" that's probably more applicable to Goosen. And Arnie has admitted that he took steroids during his heydays as the premier bodybuilder.  I hope Goosen makes a successful return he is a player who demonstrated great potential and promise.

Shezza

I think that Goosen can do with a few more kilos off muscle weight - which will strengthen his system considerably and help against injuries.   He is 6 cm taller than for instance Dan Carter - but weighs 5 kg less than him.   If he picks up another 3 kgs he should be built strong enough to take the knocks in rugby better.

As I understand the issue - it was the rugby coach at Grey's that gave t  he subnstance to Goosen to use - it was not he himself that did it - so the AB's are barking up the wrong tree here.

I - like you - hope that he is past his injury situation and that he will be the fly half of the year this coming Super 15 - I hope he makes his place as Springbok flyhalf his own - since we are in need of a flyhalf with ball sense - which he has plenty of and Morne none.     

 The_Truth

Where the hell that you get that fabrication from - he never was banned for steroid usage - you are a fabricator of half-baked stories - but this one takes the cake.

Look at the following article of The Witness:-

"MANY athletes have tested positive for methylhexaneamine, according to Dr Ross Tucker of the Sports Science Institute of SA.

They include Springboks Chilliboy Ralepelle and Bjorn Basson, who were later cleared, while young Cheetahs flyhalf Johan Goosen was banned for eight months while still a Grey College pupil in Bloemfontein in 2010.  He tested positive for the substance after taking part in the Coca-Cola Craven Week that year.

“The stimulant methylhexaneamine is found in supplements,” said Tucker.
However, athletes can be cleared should they prove that it was ingested accidentally. Tucker said methylhexaneamine, although a banned substance, was very mild, and there were discussions in 2010 as to whether it should even be on the World Anti-Doping Agency list of banned substances. “It is a stimulant. It acts on the central nervous system and gives an athlete more energy during a workout,” he said.
The regulation of sports supplements in South Africa was non-existent, and athletes needed to be aware that it could be easily bought over the counter. "

That issue had nothing to do with steroids and it later on transpired that he took a supplement on the advice of his coach - and ended up with it being detected.  However, that was four years ago when Goosen was a 17 year old at school - and it never added to his muscular development.  

If you look at any photo of Goosen you will find no evidence of anything remotely related to Steroids or related substance abuse.

Better not to react to the garbage of the True Idiot in this case - he came up with Steroids usage and that was countered.  Now he has a list of banned substances - and he claims that the list includes the substance used by Goosen.   Fine as a 17 year old he did use the stimulant - BUT HE DID NOT USE STEROIDS.

Steroids is a muscle stimulant used mostly by body builders and American wrestlers.  Steroids add massively to muscle growth - and Goosen is slim and without any sign of excessive muscle development.  

Get a wake up - please.   You are behaving like a village idiot in this case. 

 Clown Cut

The _Truth

As per normal we have to deal with clots here - and they show there stupidity every minute of the day.   Let us look at what the results are of stimulant usage in the two cases under discussion:-

Methylhexaneamine

A large number of supplements focusing on fat loss and workout energy now use the ingredient in concert with other substances such as caffeine, a combination similar to the combination of ephedrine and caffeine; the former ingredient is now banned in a number of countries.

Anabolic Steroids

Anabolic steroids, technically known as anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS), are drugs that are structuraly related to the cyclic steroid ring system and have similar effects to testosterone in the body. They increase protein within cells, especially in skeletal muscles.

The effect of anabolic steroids on muscle mass is caused in at least two ways:[26] first, they increase the production of proteins; second, they reduce recovery time by blocking the effects of stress hormone cortisol on muscle tissue, so that catabolism of muscle is greatly reduced. It has been hypothesized that this reduction in muscle breakdown may occur through anabolic steroids inhibiting the action of other steroid hormones called glucocorticoids that promote the breakdown of muscles.[27] Anabolic steroids also affect the number of cells that develop into fat-storage cells, by favouring cellular differentiation into muscle cells instead.[28] Anabolic steroids can also decrease fat by increasing basal metabolic rate (BMR), since an increase in muscle mass increases BMR.

The first drug deals with fat loss and work out energy - in other words it has no direct link to muscle growth.  It is an energizer and if there is muscle growth - any growth is the result of increase training activities.   There is no relationship between this drug and steroids.

Steroids deals with enhancement of protein levels in muscle cells which stimulate muscle growth and development.

Only a complete imbecile would mix up the effects of the said two drugs like was done in this case.

Sorry duplication

 Sun-Tzu

I always read your comments with interest - but I am afraid you went wrong here.   First of all the drug used by Goosen years ago is being discussed earlier.   It is not a pro-hormone at all - in fact its use is as an energizer - nothing linked directly to muscular development. 

Without a medical study and evaluation it is impossible to classify bone structure by looking at pictures of rugby players or by looking on TV at them on the field of play.  You mentioned Schwarzenneger in your first posting - yet he was in school a slim guy who worked like crazy to develop his muscles with generous helpings of steroids.

Be fair now - can you really say that Goosen has a deficient bone structure purely by looking at pics or on TV - even at a live rugby match?   I think that would be determined by a medical practitioner on a scientific basis - not by us making deductions from what the man seems to look like from pics or from a distance.

I also beg to differ from you about defe nce - from the games I saw him  play in it was clear that he have a vastly better tackle technique than Morne Steyn - a really poor defender in the channel.   I have not seen him missing many tackles and wonder whether you have the stats to prove your statement on poor defence.