Grant or Jantjes

Ex Superpsort

Stormers flyhalf Peter Grant could return from Japan in time for their first Super Rugby match against the Bulls at Loftus Versfeld on February 22.

"I could be back anywhere between the 5th and 25th of next month. So we'll just have to wait and see," the 28-year-old told Die Burger's website.

Grant's availability will depend on how well the Kobe Kobelco Steelers (the Japanese team he currently plays for) performs in the next few weeks.

He will therefore likely not be available for the Stormers' two warm-up games, against the Cheetahs on February 2 and Boland on February 9.

Springbok flyhalf Elton Jantjies, who joined on loan from the Lions at the end of last year, will take the flyhalf reins for the warm-up games, with him and Grant expected to fight it out for the Stormers' No 10 jersey once the season proper starts.

However, with a long season ahead (the Super Rugby final is scheduled for August 3) the duo will be rotated on a regular basis by coach Allister Coetzee. (Does this ring  a bell snapster?)

I just hope this flyhalf issue is judged strictly on its merits.  

Jantjes will need to play well to oust Grant who is very steady and a superb goal kicker. Jantjes is more exciting  but has vunerabilities.  Cant see Jantjes playing 2012 Stormers rugby! Neither will Taute. You can be sure there is going to be a significant change in approach. 

The Stormers must realise they have the forwards to set up decent possession for the backs and a very talented group of backline players. They MUST earn some Bonus points this year. Also they must do the necessary rotation to ensure the guys are playing well a tthe business end of the comp. They have the squad to do this.

thats actually a eal tough question, well not if ur mike who im convinced has been wronged by janties in some way, LMAO, :oP
but seriously, both have tremendous value with the different strengths to their game. grant is like a more consistent steyn, deadly with his bott and works well with his stormers comrades, while janties has an attacking xfatcor flair which the stormers havent seen in a long long time at flyhalf, an attack is the one area spXVs worst attacking team needs the stormers are clueless.
 

i still think the stormers are SA storngest team, but stormers do need to get more bonus points. the NZ cannibalisation that happens in the toughest conference in the spXV will aid the stormers in 2013 like it did in 2012 and their 2nd to none defence 1st policy did see them to topping the combined conference, so maybe sticking with grant would be the right move, conundrum conundrum, o,O

 Sasuke, the Newzealand conference is the toughest in the backs, not the forwards. 

The most physical conference is South Africa by far. 

Take the pack of the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers and have to play local derbies and it turns into major physical attrition. It may be why SA teams are also getting more injuries than the New Zealand teams.

.New Zealand teams are pyhsical but sometimes it resembles 7s style of game of less contact. (The IPN sometimes looks like touch rugby)

South African teams beat allot of New Zealand teams in New Zealand last year and the last few years. 

The Bulls record at home to Foreign teams is much better than against South African oppsoition. 

Even the Cheetas who are filled with injury prone players and a small squad to work with are now winning games and challenging teams in New Zealand. 

Was it in 2011 or 2010 when the Stormers beat every single New zealand side. 

The Sharks and Stormers expect to win in Newzealand, and the Bulls had a decent season in New Zealand last year given they are in a rebuilding stage.

They New Zealand conference is not as strong as you think. 

Easy choice, while Grant is a damn fine player, Jantjies has the x factor and walks the side as the starting 10. The Stormers lacked imagination in the backs last season, Jantjies will improve this aspect from a creative point of view, but sadly they will retain the services of Jean and de Jongh in the centres, which will stifle things again.

Coetzee should use de Allende, Pat Howard and JP du Plessis at centre - but sadly this wont happen.

Beeno

Grant by a mile - at least he can defend and is solid under high balls - unlike Silky Hands.  The latter will be off to the Lions in three months time after the Stormers realize they made a complete bugger-up by signing him.

By the way - I am learning something every day - I did not know the X in X-factor is actually an abbreviation for SHIT  

I'm going with Jantjies. While Grant is one of those players that is average to good at everything he does, the Stormers don't need that at 10. Jantjies is hopefully the player that can open their attack game up. We have defence, we have guys that make millions of tackles. I think sacrificing a little on defence in one position for a more attacking type player is what the Stormers need. The issue with the Stormers is not defence. Their off season issue they needed to address was their attack and scoring tries. Jantjies addresses that issue. It's that simple.

Saffex, As for De Jong. To me he's dangerous in space. When space is created for him he can be an explosive player. The problem I find with him is he doesn't create his own space, and has no help in creating space. Hopefully Jantjies can help him.

Agreed can, Jantjies walks it. Jantjies will create more than Grant did but its up to Jean to set de Jongh up. I'm afraid Jean is past it and has lost his zip so we wont see much creativity from him.

If I want a flyhalf playing 10 meters behind the gain line - running towards hiss center and giving manufactured hospital passes - Jantjies is the man.   I think the Stormers will notice that in the warm-up games and then go for Grant.

Problem was that De Villiers and De Jongh were the "dead" center combination last year.   De Jongh specifically was atrocious last year.   If the Stormers really wants to achieve something this year - I suggest they use De Alende, Du Plessis or Howard at 13 - with Taute at 15   The other altrnative would be to play De Allende at 12 and use Du Plessis or Howard at 13.

The dead centres don't help. I agree. But having grant, JDV, and then De Jong wasn't helping either. I really thing Coetzee needs to adress these 3 positions. He's addressed one.

@sharkbok,

its matter of opinion who has the most physical forwards in the spXV, but i can remeber the bull forwards being completely and utterly destroyed by the crusaders in the finals and the sharks being dominated by the chiefs in THE final.

it was also a well known fact that many a saffa bloggers here said that NZ clubs had a clear and distincy advantage in the contact area with their forwards, cos i was agreeing alot as i added my two cents to those claims.
subject to opinon though and each to their own, but i think that its rubbish to say that SA conference is the most physical, it is at best as physical.


but adressing some of ur other comments like,,,
".New Zealand teams are pyhsical but sometimes it resembles 7s style of game of less contact. (The IPN sometimes looks like touch rugby)"
im assuming by IPN u mean ITM otherwise the rest of this paragraph is redundandt. but lets be honest now sharkbok, how many ITM games did u actually watch??? cos im guessing by that comment, u watched the occasional highlight of a replay and didnt actually take the time to watch some of the best ITM rugby in ages.

also this is another comment which is a lot easier to disprove,,,,
"South African teams beat allot of New Zealand teams in New Zealand last year and the last few years."

2012 SA clubs record in NZ
stormers - beat highlanders, lost to crusaders, 
bulls - lost to the highlanders, chiefs and crusaders,
sharks -  beat the blues, lost to the hurricanes and chiefs,
cheetahs - beat the hurricanes, lost to the crusaders
lions - lost the blues and the chiefs
2012 SA record vs NZ teams in NZ - 3 wins, 9 losses

2011 SA clubs record in NZ
stormers-  beat the blues, lost to the chiefs
bulls- beat the hurricanes, lost to the crusaders and the chiefs
sharks -  beat the hurricanes, lost to the chiefs and crusaders (actually lost to crusaders twice in 2011, but the round match was held in twickenham, so sharls escaped by the skin of their teeth, but i hope u dont think they would have beaten the crusaders in chc that year, o,O)
cheetahs - lost to the highlanders and the blues
lions - beat the highlanders, lost to the hurricanes
2011 SA record vs NZ teams in NZ - 4 wins, 8 losses


2010 SA clubs record in NZ
stormers - beat the chiefs and the blues
bulls - beat the chiefs, lost to the blues
sharks - beat the hurricanes and highlanders, lost to the crusaders
cheetahs - draw with the chiefs, lost to the crusaders
lions, lost to the hurricanes, highlanders and crusaders
2010 SA record vs NZ teams in NZ - 5 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses

no sharkbok, SA teams did not beat a lot of NZ teams in NZ last year or the last few years, unless the meaning of "a lot" is different between NZ and SA??? :oP
 

2010 was the year that the stormers became the first and only club to beat all NZ teams in one year, a very good effort that both impresed and hurt me a lot to watch by the way, so i was cheering for the bulls big time in the finals that year, LMAO, :oP
but luckily my All Blacks again gave us something to cheer for that year when we whitewashed  the TriNats and lost only one test that entire year, :o)
FYI crusaders in 2008, blues in 2003 and the chiefs in 2012 have beaten all their SA opponents in one season,

"Even the Cheetas who are filled with injury prone players and a small squad to work with are now winning games and challenging teams in New Zealand."
oh sharkbok buddy ol pal, winning games and challenging teams in NZ??? o_O
cheetahs won their first game EVER in NZ last year and it was a huge upset but well deserved win in an entertaining as game.
cheetahs have some great players, but the fact is they finished 10th last year in the spXV and that is their best placing ever since being reintergrated after that one season stint back in spXII.
ur reading too much into the cheetahs IMO, theres always going to be freak one of losses in super rugby like the crusaders embarassing loss to the rebels or even worse, the sharks loss to spXV wooden spooners, :oP

I hope the Sharks Bunnies are dumb enough to pick the pedestrian Grant ahead of the much more talented and promising Jantjies, but whichever one they pick, we know they'll fold when the pressure is on . . . especially when they play against their Lords and Masters the mighty Sharks!

Saffex

Problem is I do watch rugby and that is where I see what the players are really up to - especially the hyped-up ones.   In the case of Jantjies I saw -

*   how he gets run over whenever he tries to make a face-to-face tackle - also in the Audie test *which you claimed to have watched again - but never saw the incident re Jantjies becausethe blinkers are all over your eyes);

*   how he chickened out under a high ball when playes are following up - eg in the Lions game against the Stormers last year;

*   how deep in the pocket he stands - basically to avoid being takled like happened in the case of Aplon - where he was caught when because of an unexpected turnover;

*   how he runs towards the inside center and give hospital passes to recipients - either ouside or inside passes; and

*   how he was cut out by teammates after he made a number of serious repeats of the same problems listed above.

I see the above and wonder - despite the hype, what is Earl Silky Hands really up to,   Is he not up to the same rubbish his younger brother dished out in the match against the Irish  in the JWC last year - after which he was dropped like a hot potato and replaced by Pollard?

Gavin Rich and Saffex cannot write him up as a wonder kid and get away with it.   The well-informed Newlands crowd would identify those things quickly and and his visit to the Stormers will be over    

I also worry about injuries to poor Jean De Villiers because of the passing characteritics of Siky Hands.

 @Sasuke- I never saw your reply, thanks for the detailed response. I only noticed on the Zac Guildford post that you said that you were awaiting my response on this post. 

I must admit that I do not watch that much ITM, but that will change this year as I now have more sports channels.

It is mostly the highlights that I see and it seems like a good level of skill but the ball allmost leaves the hand before each pass so looks like contact is avoided allot of the time.

This can be good for skills, but just saying that I think the Curry Cup is more physical from what I have seen.

I would agree that the New Zealand forwards are good at rucking, but I do not think their are stronger carriers than the SA SuperXV teams. 

If South Africa are beating New Zealand teams, it must be for some reason- It is not the passing skills of our backline that is winning games thats for sure.

With regards to the Chiefs and the Sharks game, the beating that the Chiefs took against the Bulls in the 2011 final was the biggest on record. The Bulls forwards pulverised them. The Sharks had the worst travel schedule in the history of the tournament and nobody really gave them a chance.

About Sa Clubs records in NewZealand, this has vastly improved apart form the Lions.

The lions are pulling down the average which makes the numbers look much worse. Pull the Lions out of the stats and suddenly it looks much more even.

I shall look at the stats of the game played in South Africa. However the last few years I see even the basement team of the Cheetas being competive in most of their matches away. not just at home.

I expect the Cheetas will win again in NewZealand this year if their small squad can remain not decimated by injury. Also the Sharks and Stormers will win games in NewZealand, probably win more than they lose or at least 50/50. The Kings are stuffed home and away.

As for Zac Guilford, my comment is just a joke not serious.  Houseparties in the past have had some violence and others will in the future. Just when someone is well known it becomes news worthy. 

I am not sure if he has a problem or just cant hold his drinks. 

2012 SA clubs record in NZ

stormers - beat highlanders, lost to crusaders,  
bulls - lost to the highlanders, chiefs and crusaders, 
sharks -  beat the blues, lost to the hurricanes and chiefs,
cheetahs - beat the hurricanes, lost to the crusaders
lions - lost the blues and the chiefs
2012 SA record vs NZ teams in NZ - 3 wins, 9 losses

2011 SA clubs record in NZ
stormers-  beat the blues, lost to the chiefs
bulls- beat the hurricanes, lost to the crusaders and the chiefs 
sharks -  beat the hurricanes, lost to the chiefs and crusaders (actually lost to crusaders twice in 2011, but the round match was held in twickenham, so sharls escaped by the skin of their teeth, but i hope u dont think they would have beaten the crusaders in chc that year, o,O)
cheetahs - lost to the highlanders and the blues
lions - beat the highlanders, lost to the hurricanes
2011 SA record vs NZ teams in NZ - 4 wins, 8 losses


2010 SA clubs record in NZ
stormers - beat the chiefs and the blues
bulls - beat the chiefs, lost to the blues
sharks - beat the hurricanes and highlanders, lost to the crusaders
cheetahs - draw with the chiefs, lost to the crusaders
lions, lost to the hurricanes, highlanders and crusaders
2010 SA record vs NZ teams in NZ - 5 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses

Sharkbok

The short answer is neither Grant or Jantjies - I prefer Timo Swiel.

Merit Assessment -

1    Swiel

2    Grant

3   Jantjies

As solid a player as Grant is he lacks something special. He won't let his side down but then again he won't create anything special either on the park. In other words he doesn't have the X Factor as Stupid Dave said.

Jantjies is a talent. Those who can't see that need their eyes tested.

I believe that once Jantjies settles in a certain flair will come to the Stormers backline. He is strong on his feet and is deceptively strong in his uppewr body. He'll make a big difference, of that I have no doubt.

Only problem is that after this season he may just be lost to the Lions. Not sure of his current contract. .

I like him and I think with the talen he now finds around him we'll see a dynamic Jantjies. Especiaally being finding himself in enviroment where it's all about rugby and not about internal politics.

Capone

Sorry - but I disagree about Jantjies.   Maybe I see too many spooks in his case - maybe he could make the grade.  Insofar as Grant is concerned - I met him once and he is an absolute gentleman.   However, something went awry in his game last year and he was very average as the Stormers flyhalf insofar as backline attacking rugby is concerned - but was excellent in kicking at goal.

So lets see what Jantjies produces in the warm-up games and then debate the issue again.  

MIke, Sweil is too young to play Super 15 this year surely?  I wonder if Van Aswegen will step up. Was useful before getting injured.

Joel Stransky said Jantjes is a manufactured flyhalf. One has to consider this coming from the source it does. This season should settle the issue as to whether Jantjes has the rugby brain to make it.  He will play behind probably the best pack in the comp so he has every chance to shine.

One thing that gives me even more hope was how the young WP props got on top of the sharks front row in the Currie Cup final.  Provided Liebenberg is there our scrum should be pretty good this year, Lineouts will be superb and the loose trio very powerful. Ouch I do feel for the wee nz sides facing these men.

Just get some attacking flair going Alistair and if there are only few injuries we are in with a great chance.

Viva the Mighty Stormers! Viva

Aaaha ... so your a Stormer are you?

And a Federer fan.

Much better avatart pic ... however one would have thought that your avatar would sorta represent the name you go by ... ??

Just saying ...

Capone

Let me clarify the issue as to support of teams.   I support the Sharks against all teams they play.   I support the Stormers in all games they play other than against the Sharks.  Grew up in the Southern Cape - but has been living in Durban and surroiunds for most of my life.

As to my Avatar - a bit of explanation - Age brings on wisdom - or so the saying goes.   However, so much shit is written by me and others on this site - I had to find an avatar that places age and wisom on an appropriate seat and I could find none better than the one I am using.  Capice? LOL 

.

Beeno

Let me explain.  I wish that some of our fat, slow  and small backline players look at the way Swiel plays - and learn how to read games, run a speed, make passes anf off-load balls in tackle situation and say -

"If he can do it - so can we".   And then start to learn how to doi it.

The three coming nearest to Swiel are Lambie, Goosen and Jordaan.  Other than those three - ball sense and skills have vanished from our backline play. The present established  norm is we do not read games and apply ball skills at all - we do not pass and off-load balls effectively - we do not contribute to tries - we die with the ball - we do nothing a decent backline player should do  = and then wonder why our backlines are malfunctioning.

He certainly is too young for Super 15 - but will be a lot better than some of our other present players.   He should harden up a lot and in two years time he will be on the Springbok shortlist - I am sure the ball sense wiz kid will make it.

Haaahahahaaa!! Yeah … I get it.

I’ve been looking at the focused look on your face these last few days and was wondering whether the poor dear was suffering from a bad dose of constipation?

Thanks for clearing that up.

Capone

LOL.   No constipation on my side - but I wish my friend Saffex has a dose of verbal constipation - that would help a lot in this case.  LOL

clevermike

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 2940 RE: Grant or Jantjes
January 24, 2013, 09:01:17

"Sorry - but I disagree about Jantjies.   Maybe I sea too many spooks in his case"

@clevermike
my eyes nearly popped out of the back of my head with this comment of urs, o_O, , :oP

i know ur a good chap and ive seen nothing to suggest otherwise (except that ur a sharks supporter, but hey nobodies perfect, lol), so i will assume u have no idea of the derrogatory meaning of the word spooks used to describe people of african descent???

its funnny cos it came from u, but just a quiet if public heads up, dont worry, the uchiha clan have ur back, :o)

Al that baboon pic ex rooitwit is a master piece. Unfortunately i couldn' get it to twitch which makes it really great. Was saved as a gif file.

Mike you avatar is not a good role model for any but snapster and rooitwit!

Mike I sincerely hope Sweil does what he did at school boy level at senior level. But firstly he has a lot of growing up to do and secondly its far, far harder to do it at senior level. (These are the mistakes snaspter makes). I think he will not be used much by the Stormers this year.

I think its a fantasy to think Weil could cope now at Super 15 level.

 Sas, "spook" is Afrikaans for ghost and can be used in the same context in English as well. In the context Mike used it, the best I can come up with is "bad omens" re Jantjies. We have quite a number of derogatory and racist terms in SA, but that one (and "boy" ) has(have) no negatives over here. Same as with the term Bobby Skinstat used on air a while ago. He got into trouble for using a term that would have been quite normal if it was  broadcasted to a SA-only audience.

Oh Brother!!!

Fart and people bitch.

Use the word “boy” and people bitch.

Use the word “spook” and people bitch.

Use the word “coconut” and you upset a nation.

Use the word “Dutchman” and everyone hates you.

What next … “Hello … how the hell are you?”

We’ve all turned into a bunch of friggin whining w@nkers.

F-cked if do and F-cked if you don’t.

Reckon I was born 50 years too late.

Sasue

Sorry I never use racist terminology amd did not even realize that there is a racist connotation to that word.   We sometimes use it in the cotext of ghosts or as was said elsewhere "bad omens"  or "bad signs"

Sorry - no offence meant to anyone.

Capone, I see you haven't changed a heck of a lot in the last 8 years or however many years it's been since you posted on the rugby boards . . . or at least I should say that your rather dim view of political correctness hasn't changed much!

I do agree that generally people have become way too sensitive and whenever they read or hear something that might be construed as being politcally incorrect or offensive that they almost want to take offence and interpret things in the worst way possible just so they can feel aggrieved and bleat about how no-one understand them or their culture.

We do live in some seriously screwed up times!

@mikey,

dont sweat it bro, anyone here that knows u and is worth their lick of salt wouldnt suspect u of something so backwards.

like i said, when i read it i was like WTF??? o_O, but i quickly came to the assumption that u werent aware of any of the racial connotations involved, so for me it became a very funny incident and who cares waht others think, u know the truth and i and the uchiha clan believe ur intentions, :o)

however this dosent change the fact that as a shark supporter u still have some serious character flaws, :oP

Beeno

I also think that Swiel need some growing up still to do and by that I mean physical development.   However, you missed my main point - he has massive abailiies as to reading of the game - while our present international and top franchise backline players (other than Goosen, Lambie and Jordaan) is totally clueless about that component and play like overgrown and slow machines.   

Can they not look and see what Swiel is doing and at least try and improve some elements of their game  and play a better style of rugby.   I mean the guy does everything from being running at pace at potentoial gaps in the opposition defence and not ambling  straight at defenders -   to be in position to get off-loads and his passing and ball handling is ten times better than the present monkeys we use as backline players.  He knows when to pass and where to pass too,   

Hell they can learn something from this kid.