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FORUM / RUGBY /  Gregor Paul: Time to move on and stop calling All Blacks dirty; NZ Herald

Gregor Paul: Time to move on and stop calling All Blacks dirty; NZ Herald

Started by Just_win21 REPLIES552 VIEWS· 23 Nov 2016, 03:29
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Nov 2016, 03:29
#1
23 Nov 2016, 03:29#1

A fair process, a fair outcome and now it is time for the matter of whether the All Blacks are a dirty team to be laid to rest.

Justice has been served in the cases of Malakai Fekitoa and Sam Cane and now there really isn't any justification for anyone to harbour a sense of grievance. Now, there is not legitimate grounds to brand the All Blacks - or imply at least - that they rely a little too heavily on a bit of filth to bolster their position as the world's best.

Shutting up shop on the matter and moving on is important, not just for the sake of relations between New Zealand and Ireland, but for the good of the game.

The test in Dublin was epic. The intensity of commitment from both sides was phenomenal and the collisions were at a level that had most players still dragging limbs behind them on Monday morning.

Who didn't love the ferocity of the battle? Who didn't wince and jump at the impacts and feel the players emptying not just every last ounce of energy into the game, but their whole being?

That's what marked it as a brilliant game of rugby and to be gripped like that, to have a game that ebbs and flows like that, everyone has to accept there are going to be incidents that challenge the laws of the game.

The players move too fast, the power and agility of the athletes is incredible and the two things combined mean there were will be occasions when individuals get their timing and technique wrong.

And that's individuals from both teams. No question New Zealand pushed the limits harder, were guilty of more technical and timing mistakes, but the Ireland were not without sin.

The cameras have caught plenty of moments that don't look great for them but none could be considered outrageous or heinous.

That's the thing, though to be clear about: this wasn't a test marred by needless thuggery or stupid, crass, violent actions. No one eye-gouged. No one punched or kicked. No one grabbed anyone else's testicles, or head-butted an opponent or spat on them.

The clash points were all within the context of the game and directly linked to the passion and desire - not any premeditated desire to be malicious.

As a comparison, the second Bledisloe test this year was a far sorrier sight than the game in Dublin. The Wellington encounter just had spite, ill-feeling and verbal sledging and not so much of the genuine, ferocity conducted with integrity that was on view in Dublin.

This was not a dirty test. There was no niggle. There was no sense that either side was troubled by the way the other was conducting their business.

It was exceptionally hard but neither side wanted it any other way and there were no flare ups, no off the ball scuffles, no protestations to the referee.

The players came off bruised, sore, exhausted and full of respect for one another. There was no obvious anxiety that they had been part of a game that had fallen out of control, but for the sake of appearances more than anything else, a few incidents would have to be looked at.

Sam Cane's contact with Rob Henshaw had to be deliberated by an independent panel to be sure that it was an accidental clash of heads. When a player is stretchered off - it effectively makes an investigation compulsory.

It looked like an accident at the time and five hours of deliberation led the disciplinary committee in London to reach the same conclusion.

Fekitoa's tackle was reckless. He was scrambling to cover, came in too high because he perhaps felt Zebo was getting away when in fact he wasn't.

The disciplinary panel said it reached the threshold for a red card - but they had five hours and ample testimony to reach that decision. Referee Jaco Peyper had to make a call there and then and a red would have been harsh for a tackle that was clearly all about poor timing and technique.

A one week ban is fair and just - the system has done its job.


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Nov 2016, 03:32
#2
23 Nov 2016, 03:32#2
 There we have it a ruling has been made, fair enough I say. Perhaps a little harsh on Fekitoa in my unbiased opinion
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
23 Nov 2016, 07:42
#3
23 Nov 2016, 07:42#3
 Hardly wee Feks fault if the ickle Leprachaun has his head lower than a properly proportioned SH player now is it ? Was Se.xton trying to give Beaudy a little noogy to the heid then ?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
23 Nov 2016, 08:41
#4
23 Nov 2016, 08:41#4
 They have to conjure ways to bring the All Blacks down.
They can't do it on the field ... and so they enlist the media to do a number on them. Soften them up a little. Say all kind of negative things.   
Maybe this ploy will have the All Blacks hesitate a little. Maybe this ploy will get into the heads of the Kiwis ... stop them from giving it their all. Anything to hamper them a tad would be victory enough.
I hope the All Blacks see it for what it is. I hope they don't allow it to influence them in any way. It must be business as usual.
I'm so sick of cowering Goats it makes me wan't to scream. We need the All Black passion and determination openly displayed for all to see ... for all to enjoy. It's good for rugby. 

It makes taking the Giant down all that more meaningful. I am looking forward to the clash of the Titans. A war among nations. A fully focused All Blacks vs a fully focused England. 
Hope I'm still kicking to see it happen.
 

 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
23 Nov 2016, 10:52
#5
23 Nov 2016, 10:52#5
 Man those massive Bok pa cks in their pomp were a sight to behold ! WTF happened to pride in country and Jersey ? Doesnt matter about your ability or lack of you can at least show some pride ,beaten never defeated is the go .
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
23 Nov 2016, 11:59
#6
23 Nov 2016, 11:59#6
 @WD. "WTF happened to pride in country and Jersey ?"
Money....... That is what happened.
South Africans have this idea that they have to copy NZ in every way. The first is the central contracting. That would have worked if they understood the simplest part of the so-called central contracting. That is not the idea of retaining your best players and keeping them from "running away" by paying them massive salaries. That is not the main aim of central contracting. It is, in my opinion, the idea of all singing from the same hymn sheet. 
The funny thing is that that hymn sheet is not an elaborate one with all kinds of difficult and intriguing twists and turns. It is simple basic rugby principles. There is nothing mysterious about NZ rugby. It is simple basic rugby. The only difference is that they stick to the basics and they do it well. The Argentinians have their powerful scrum. South Africans (used to) have their powerful forward play and driving mauls, etc. The French have their unpredictability. NZ have nothing in particular bar their ability to do the basics exceptionally well. I am not sure how many of you are familiar with the lawsuit that John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival was involved in. It is a long story but it basically boils down to the fact that the band sold the rights to their music to their label and then the band broke up. John then produced a song, I think it was The old man lives down the road or something. The record company then sued him, saying that it was the same as one of his earlier songs with different lyrics. During the lawsuit he took out a guitar and started singing a whole host of his songs all of them using basically the same combination of cords. He won the lawsuit. What has that got to do with NZ rugby. Fogerty is one of the greatest rock artists in history. His secret? He has stuck to the basics that has been working for him for almost sixty years. Just like the All Blacks.
Added to that there is their ability to believe in themselves. You never get the feeling that they have lost the game until the final whistle. You always expect them to pull something out of the bag. That is the secret about NZ rugby. That and their immense pride when they put on that black jersey.
South Africans also had that pride but it is gone. The sad thing is that no central contract and salaries of whatever magnitude will get that back. Why? Because you cannot buy pride and you cannot enforce it. Pride comes from within. All of the Boks and all of the coaches, etc always harp on about the pride when they put on the Bok jersey. Bullsiht. They are bluffing. They do not have any pride. Fcukall. In addition, they do not have the skills to stick to the basics and do it exceptionally well. They do not have leadership among the players. They do not have decision-making players. Their handling skills are in the gutters, along with their defensive skills. I can go on and on.
The sad part is that the above is not because we have a crap Bok coach. Coetzee is not the main reason for our demise. He was just the last straw that broke the camels back. I have been saying for ages that our rugby is sick to the core. No national coach in the world is going to fix SA Rugby as a whole. Hypothetically getting someone like Eddie Jones to fix SA rugby is like taking a car that ran into the back of a lorry and giving it a new lick of paint and thinking that it is fixed.
Man, it is has become depressing to be a Bok supporter.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
23 Nov 2016, 13:35
#7
23 Nov 2016, 13:35#7
 Yeah the ABs reckon they are never defeated they just run out of time.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Nov 2016, 13:41
#8
23 Nov 2016, 13:41#8
 Good post Ceradyne. I would only add that the ABs allow their players to "express themselves" so you see a lot of fantastic plays that take advantage of the situation the player finds himself in. Players like Barrett and Dagg show this in every game.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Nov 2016, 13:47
#9
23 Nov 2016, 13:47#9
 Hi Cloudy I'm doing fine. I finally got the wife to your home in the US and the number of boxes is shrinking. How are you doing?
I see the Poms are already sowing the seeds of doubt in the refs mind as part of the build up to the Lions games and of course the game against them next year. The tactics never change
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
23 Nov 2016, 14:14
#10
23 Nov 2016, 14:14#10
 "I would only add that the ABs allow their players to "express themselves" so you see a lot of fantastic plays that take advantage of the situation the player finds himself in."
Why would that be? Could it be because they have the self belief, which comes from knowing that they are able to do the basics well? More importantly, could it be that they trust their team mates to also have the same pride and basic skills sets?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Nov 2016, 15:23
#11
23 Nov 2016, 15:23#11
 Ceradyne, yes it is those things and the coaches encourage them to express themselves. 
As you said in your post, having the skills is essential. Without that expressing yourself is fruitless.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Nov 2016, 15:33
#12
23 Nov 2016, 15:33#12
 Well well well. It's obvious that the highly esteemed Beeno has been proven correct again. Its getting embarrassing how often I get it right so often so maybe I will have to throw in an error sometime to ease the pain of some here! Think dense denise and the constantly erring rooitwitterbug and my kbbs fans!
Look we all know the wee abs and nz sides in general are the most cynical teams in the world and that their refs are the most crooked as has been well documented. Playing dirty will feigning innocence has become a hallmark of their play as has professional infringements to stop the other side scoring. The looks of innocence on these ugly mugs are a sight to behold!!!.Of course when something happens and the issue of dirty play by nz arises yet again the mantra is usually its time to move on or its all about the loosing side whingeing.
Unfortunately oaks like Justin Marshall are few and far between and criminal genes rule down under in nz.
Beeno setting the record straight - yet again.PS JW your one eyed approach to matters is becoming legendary and I would hate you to slump to the base levels of ab ASS and warped DUD. 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Nov 2016, 00:20
#13
24 Nov 2016, 00:20#13
 Beeno, please remove the eye patch from you one and only eye. This should improve the chances of you seeing how great the ABs are. One must remain optimistic
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Nov 2016, 08:41
#14
24 Nov 2016, 08:41#14
 Cloudy I am on record many, many times severely criticising the whole South African set up rugby wise and otherwise so I don't need ill informed comments about glass houses. What is happening to our rugby is a total disgrace driven by the malignant anc.
However, so is the the nz approach to rugby and I am again being proven correct yet again by these comments about nz. The time is coming where the objections to the way nz go about their rugby business will become ever louder unless they change their wicked ways.

Beeno hath spoken let all kbbs take note !
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
24 Nov 2016, 10:17
#15
24 Nov 2016, 10:17#15
 ...Bean Brain ..i think what you were trying to say was NZ has always been a model of excellence and a paragon of virtue....
Well nice of you to say that thanks mate...
CR
CrusadersfanPro3,099 posts
24 Nov 2016, 11:51
#16
24 Nov 2016, 11:51#16
All I can say Beeno is thank gawd you are not an AB supporter, your a bigger embarrasment  to South Africa than your rugby team. Please give yourself a nice uppercut and see if you can knock some sense into the pea sized organ you call a brain.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Nov 2016, 12:57
#17
24 Nov 2016, 12:57#17
 Crustie you talking head stop blabbering away and start thinking what could be done to clean up nz rugby.Thanks
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Nov 2016, 13:11
#18
24 Nov 2016, 13:11#18
 All kiwi talking heads please accept  the view of the global rugby community and no more unseemly whinging!
I kinda get embarrassed for the kbbs here 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Nov 2016, 14:53
#19
24 Nov 2016, 14:53#19
Well Beeno the green jersey is still providing a challenge to the Mighty All Blacks but unfortunately it's Irish green not Bok green. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Nov 2016, 15:02
#20
24 Nov 2016, 15:02#20
JW upon careful reading of your comments I find them merely diversionary in nature. The topic here is foul play by the cynical wee abs a subject which, along with crooked play, consistently arises each season.
Beeno sticking topic the topic. 
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
24 Nov 2016, 17:43
#21
24 Nov 2016, 17:43#21
 ...Bean Brain translation = NZ rugby is like an unflawed diamond glistening in the rough..not like the dirty blood ones found in SA...the NZ diamond is magnificent shining so bright
that it makes eyes burn with envy...

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Nov 2016, 20:41
#22
24 Nov 2016, 20:41#22
Ratue wrote an article saying the Irish whining is good for the ABs as we need another rival as the Boks have slipped so badly & the Pom-like Whining helps the ABs up their game. So Beeno please increase the pitch of your bleating, lol
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