Has there been a decline in NH rugby?

I note with some concern that Scotland have reached an all time low of 12 and Wales have dropped to 10!

England remain the top NH side at 4 with France just behind at 5 and Ireland at 6. Any more decline and Wales will drop out of top ten leaving these three and Italy  as the sole top ten countries from the NH! 

Can Argentina make the top 4 one wonders given they are now playing in the rugby Championship which is bound to improve their game.

Why this decline?

Ever since 2003 when England won the world cup, it is like the teams up North are second tier, while the South are in the premier division (Excluding Argie, but even they have spent some time above the top placed Northern Hem side in the world rankings). Seriously, when SA, Aus or NZ lose to one of the Northern hemisphere nations it is always considered an upset, because they just aren't in the same class. Yes, one of the Northern sides surprises one of us every now and again, but it is normally down to fatigue or lack of preperation from the Southern Hem sides.

So the short answer is this, the North have not been in the same class for nearly ten years already.

Bluebok with scotland the brave  sliding out of the top 10 and Wales about to follow suite it does appear there is a decline from the norm of playing second string to the SH giants.

I dont watch enough NH rugby to know what is the cause of this state of affairs.

Watch out for the Argies they have not had much opportunity till now.

If US and Canada get their act together the European representation in the top ten could further decline?

It is a sad state of affairs, I like it when the North are a genuine threat, but at the moment they just aren't. England and France seem as though they MIGHT be moving in the right direction, but they certainly aren't there yet.

You are right Beans, if the US and Canada pull finger, the rugby map could look very different in ten years time.

Barring 2003 when a very old and experienced Pom team had the best pack in world rugby, France is the only NH team that really represents a threat. Their average may not be better than the Poms, but their highs are higher.

Of the others, Wales and Ireland have had their moments, usually because a good coach managed for a short time to get more out of them,  than they could give on a sustained basis. So these brief blips always fail. And Scotland should stick to hosting golf tournaments.

The test between the Poms and Scotland showed woeful standards. The collisions were CC standard and the tackling was worse.

How do we explain the decline in standard with the Poms convincng win over NZ and our scraping home against Ireland, Scotland and England last year - I think not.

NZ, SA and Oz are better but its always a fierce battle with the NH sides. England and France are always up there, Wales have a young side with potential, Ireland are in decline, Scotland ever brave but carry little clout and Italy are on the up

The Poms win was convincing against the AB's but still put it down to a bad day at the office for the AB's and a day where everything went right for the Poms. Scotlands decline I'm not surprised at as they just don't have the international standard players of other nations, Wales though are a real enigma, they as a country are very similar in size to NZ and have about the same population, but the number of registered players are fewer, however they produce world class players backs mainly but never seem to play with any consistency.

Agreed Poly, but it still takes a decent side to beat the AB's even on an off day. The fact that it was a convincing win further confirms that the standard of the Poms has not slipped at all - Beenkops take is the usual bullshit

I think there is a problem with Northern Hemisphere rugby on lower level - ie on what they call Club Rugby.   The Clubs import many SH players and thus stifle local development.   There is virtually no feeding clubs that do not have a susttantial number of SH players.

The problem with many of the latter imports are that they have played international rugby and as such cannot play for the countries inwhich they ply their trade.   The younger players can qualify to play for thir countries where they play at present - but those are few and far between.   There are some though that did play for countries like France (De Villiers), England (Barrett and Botha) and Ireland (Strauss).   There are some youngsters who have been treated badly by local franchises (Stander - being an example) who moved to NH countries to enahnce their international rugby level claims.   Others mentioned in that regard include Josh Strauss,   Other than Stander- the others are  basically players that would not have made the Springbok team.

My contention remains - the NH clubs employ too many foreign players - thus limiting the number of potential local players and that in itself ultimately impact negatively on rugby development and in the final analysis on the national teams.  

Incidentally the same applies to other codes of sport as well - soccer and cricket being examples.  

Agreed Mike, the NH club sides have far too many foreigners in their sides, for every foreign player selecte it deprives an English player of an opportunity.

Hence the fact that many kids get lost in the system or chuck in the towel after U20 level - they find it difficult to break into squads dominated by foreigners.

All the major clubs have big squads and they loan the lesser players to weaker clubs playing in lower leagues

ou snapster is as clueless as ever.

I did give England credit and believe them to be a well balanced side going places - all ignored by the half wit.

However who can deny Scotland and Wales have slipped badly. Ireland is not quite where they were also. France just beaten by Italy.

But to ou snapster the question should not even be posed.

Beeno

I think the problem is what I wrote and where Saffex agreed with me - too many foreign players and not enough young talent giving a chance to develop through the system in all the countries mentioned.  Yo toally ignored that pertinent issue and got sidetrackd again.   Wake up ad mell the roses.