DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
06 Aug 2014, 22:05#2
Another good example was Stephan Terblanche. He played some great rugby for the Skarks well into his twighlight and would not have dropped the Boks at that stage. I still prefer my no 3 to be way beyond 25. Actually past 27. How old was Cobus Visagie when he started playing for the Boks?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Aug 2014, 22:18#3
Mozart
For once you have written something reasonable - the emphasis should be on performance not age. However, that is where there are problems in performance assessments, Some players are one-dimensional and cannot produce the goods outside of their one-dimensional ability.
What is really required in performance evaluation needs to take into consideration how a player performs the the key functions attacked to the relevant position as a primary concern, and in a wider context how he performs a player in his position does and other activities attached to all players in rugby as a team sport.
There are often enough too much emphasis placed on one function only and not enough on the other activities a player should perform on the field of play. Basically a player's should be assessed based on his comprehensive achievements over a number of games or series of games. It is very dangerous and misleading to assess what happened in one game only and even worse on one incident in a game.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Aug 2014, 00:09#5
Try to keep other variables constant Oom, while you focus on the effects of the variable in question. Ceteris Paribus old chap. Look it up and try to apply it.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Aug 2014, 00:27#6
This whole take is flawed by your incorrect assertion that Thorne was one of the best locks at RWC what utter rubbish. Fact is Thorne was always an average lock who w as completely over rated
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Aug 2014, 00:42#7
Habana, Jean, du Preez, Jannie and Bismark are the only 30 plus players who are worth consideration in terms of the Bok squad but none are better than the youngsters except for Habana on the wing.
The likes of Kirchner, Fourie, Morne, Pienaar, Guthro, CJ, Brits, Bakkies, Matfield, Schalk, Smith and Danie should not be anywhere near a Bok squad because they are clearly past it and no comparison to the younger players we have at our disposal.
Myers obsession with these geriatrics is going to sell Bok rugby down the river starting with this RD
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Aug 2014, 00:53#9
Saffex
In looking at performance of Throne in 2011 he was not much more than a name on the teamsheet - he produced very little of substance - statistically wise and otherwise. He usaed to be a good lock - but towards the end of his career his performances deteriorated markedly. Mozart saying that in 2011 Brad Thorn at 36 was one of the best locks at the RWC.s is a misrepresentation of fact.
Matfiel;d is exactly what I had in mind in reminding Mozart of the beed for propewr performance evaluation. Matfield is good in line outs - a one-dimensional performer = the rest of his game is sub-standard since he is physical-deficient.
The mention by Mozart of those two players shows that he was not having performance as a criterium in mind - even though he used the right trminology to imply as such - but in reality reputation. . .
07 Aug 2014, 01:39#10
"......he produced very little of substance - statistically wise and otherwise ."
Care to explain?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Aug 2014, 05:18#12
Mozart
How many times have you flopped with quoting ratings of journalists as proof of good performance by a player. They are easier to discredit than you can imagine. It is obvious that the AB's winning by the skin of their teeth would get hugely inflated ratings.
But here we are actually not dealing with Thorne - w are dealing with your pet Matfield. The list of what he can do is perhaps two items - the things that he cannot do covers the rest of the page.
However, it is no use to deal wuith you about this player - let Meyer pick him and since he would contribute near to zero to games - let us play with 14 and a quarter players and when we lose against them and the Wallabies this year you may yet learn a bitter lesson. And lose we will - there are other passengers in the team as well. Add Morne Steyn, Willem Alberts and Bakkies to the list and we are going to be as dead as a door nail this year in the RC.
I will remind you about you and Ceradunce about it after the certain losses.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Aug 2014, 05:56#13
For you to be right OOm the coaches have to be wrong, the journalists have to be wrong and the majority of posters on this site have to be wrong. The other, simpler alternative is you, Cheezer and Sapp are wrong. The world or the three stooges. Easy choice.
But just by way of a bit of education the fact that NZ ratings are elevated doesn't detract from the fact that relatively Thorn was in a group of second highest rated players. Or is this simply too hard for you to get?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Aug 2014, 11:51#14
Mozart
Not all the journalists agree with the Masfield fiasco - one who wrote that he is a problem was castigated by you. It is not only Saffes, Shezza and myself on this site who criticize the Matfield selection - fact is the majority have serious reservations. Meyer himself is aware of widespread public disenchanted about the Matfield issue and mentioned that Matfield's inclusion is justified.
I think that it will be proved that the detractors of player like Matfield are right about him being a liability rather than an asset. We will soon see in the RC who is right and who is wrong.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Aug 2014, 13:34#15
Vlagshit its 2014, fucking wake up you thick plank
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Aug 2014, 13:35#16
Thorne was one of the most over rated locks I have seen......was too small for lock and not skilful enough for a loosie.......a very average player
07 Aug 2014, 14:14#18
What I find more concerning is the obsession some people have with the retention of posts, simply to point score or prove they were right all along.
It isn't exactly normal and balanced behaviour, is it ?
Possibly, some players have dips in form and then find that spark again. This can happen, even a few years later. They might have been injured, bored etc etc. Likewise, some people change their opinions on a subject/person......shock horror. I don't think that is against the Law, just yet. Or did I miss that brief ?
But just a side line to this.....have you seen the comments SA supporters have been writing on the Facebook pages about your dear Coach and his team/tactics ? They don't seem impressed and are more in tune with those you mock than yourself, it seems.
Let's just hope things go as well as you expect them to, Ceradyne.
07 Aug 2014, 15:14#21
It's SA Rugby Magazine, by the by. Where they have been chatting about the situation with the Springboks and how concerned they have been about things of late.Also that they think you will do very badly in the RC if you don't change the style of play and that the playing personnel is a little backward thinking. You know, all those sorts of nonsense things the likes of Saffex spouts !
Oh and that Meyer gave an interview this week talking about changing the style of play to a more fluid, less bash and crash, old school Springbok sort of thing ? Right ? Yeah well. They were discussing that in a very animated way ! Said that would be the only way you could compete with the other chaps in the SH and had he got the message at last ? But they didn't think you had the players to do it and only Willie le Roux was capable of playing that sort of expansive game. That was the gist of what I briefly read on my news feed.
So don't shoot the messenger. But that is what was being discussed.....or debated, as you seem to like to call it.
GEgeneraltit
Pro3,164 posts
07 Aug 2014, 16:44#23
SAFFEX
....and NO NEED TO CLOSE THE DOOR BEHIND YOU ANY MORE....lolz
Saffex will miss you Vlag and Mozzie but if he does not diet soon he might overtake us all
07 Aug 2014, 16:55#24
Jaaaaa ou Safesex. You have a little problem though. You have decided that he was old and over the hill and a few months later, without him having played a single game, you had him at the core of the "Bok experience". That is the nature of your "selection policy".
Over to becs (to the rescue). Help him out here.
07 Aug 2014, 17:28#26
Are you sure you want to maintain that I am lying about that, or would you like to change something? Hint: Before you answer too quickly, do yourself a favour and scroll up on this thread.
07 Aug 2014, 18:49#28
You have no idea what I am concerned about, Mozart.Believe me, I am more concerned about the things you gave mentioned in your post than you will ever know. I wouldn't be a boring Vegan that campaigns about everything in this sorry world if I wasn't concerned, would I ?
No, what I find concerning about the retention of posts is that it is sad. Truly, I think it is. Life is too short.Trust me.
And I know full well it is not down to memory on the part if anyone here. It is a sad little archive, simply to try to prove something.
That is not quite balanced. Not in anyone's books.
But hey ho, Vlag/Ceradyne...he is always right. Because he just is. And he has to prove it. And anyone that ever disagrees with him must feel his wrath......ooooh. Be afraid, Mozart.....very afraid
07 Aug 2014, 19:05#30
Hahahaha. Pity you didn't make use of my offer.
Geez ou Beesblaas, you actually make it easy. I did not even have to go back and search it again. I just needed to scroll up and voilà, there it was....:
11 November 2011:
"Moz I see enough experience in the likes
of JP, Frans, Pienaar, Spies, Brussouw, Schalk, Bekker, Beast, Jannie
and Bismark to carry us forward. Mix these guys with the likes of
Lambie, Mvovo, Sadie, Taute, Jantjies, Goosen, Hougaard, Coenie,
Chiliboy, A.Strauss, Flip, Mostert, Louw, Vermeulen, Daniel, J.Strauss
and co and we have something to work with going forward. Hanging on to the likes of Habana, Jean, Bakkies and co would be counter productive.
We have plenty of experience to draw on"
Exactly two months and two weeks later:
25 Jan 2012:
We have the experience in Habana, JP, Fourie, Frans, Morne, Pienaar, Beast, Bismark, Jannie, Bekker, Schalk, Smith, Brussouw and Spies - to a lesser extent Alberts, Hougaard, Louw, Mujati and Kankan.
So, what did I say?
This was it:
"You have decided that he was old and over the hill and a few months later, without him having played a single game,..." Judge for yourself. Was it the truth or not? If not, then which part was not true?
FFS, you have not once even addressed the fact that one of your sources of experience was none other than "Onse Mornetjie".
Even Mujati, who will never play for SA again. Not in 2012 and not ever again, unless your hero, Juliaas, or one of his buddies can pull a few strings.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Aug 2014, 23:31#31
Snapster you have to understand wee cerudunce windpomp is here to stir. Of course he needs an ally so this contentious twit decided he would agree with everything and I mean everything that Moz says. Moz take note.
Becs keep up the education programme re cerud unce windpomp. However expect limited if any fruit.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Aug 2014, 23:35#32
Snapster I have to agree re Brad. He was a pretty ordinary lock no question about it. That said at least he was a lock - unlike matfield.
08 Aug 2014, 00:17#33
Hey ou Beenbal, I guess you are also going to wrap Moz over the knuckles every time he agrees with me.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Aug 2014, 00:50#34
Cerasdunce
Nobody ever agrees with you. You sliver along like a snake behind Mozart and agrees with him on issues - to make it appear you have an original idea of your own. He is a dolt himself - so maybe the old saying of "birds of a feather fly together" applies to the dunces parade led by the two of you.
If Mozart cannot find facts to support his silly arguments - he invents lies. You are even to stupid to do that.
What a koke the two of you are 0 sidesplitting.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Aug 2014, 01:01#35
HasBeen you have me confused with somebody who hasn't had dealings with people. On the contrary I have seen almost every kind of human behaviour. My model is simple, I'm driven by the facts, but I have some loyalties. I am loyal to chaps who have been my Board friends over the years...like you.
Saff falls into a different category. Periodically it does him good to be smacked in the face by a wet fish. He is basically a good chap...but a little...umm....insensitive. He might wish my death, but I dont think he actually dislikes me. We will be fine.
As for the "moles" I don't really care if they post here under a different name. They are very welcome provided they are sincere in wanting to participate. I think Vlag meets those criteria, he is a good poster and he has made a lot of good rugby contributions. Others do as well.
Then you get to the nasty types like rooinek...no quarter asked, no quarter given.
Mike is here in the role of the village idiot. He alternates between grovelling at one's feet and going for the throat. He is hilariously ineffective in both modes.
08 Aug 2014, 01:21#36
Hey ou Maaikie, down boy. You don't want to see a list of your own lies and fabrications again, do you?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Aug 2014, 01:21#37
Mozart
The first person who used the term "village idiot" regularly on this site was me to describe some members exactly. Do you know even know the origin of the term? Copycat.
Have you no original idea of your own or is it limited to whatever Meyer says and grovelling in the mud kowtowing to him.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Aug 2014, 02:22#38
You were the first village idiot? Well that figures.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Aug 2014, 02:57#39
Foeitog - what a clumsy effort to make a joke - the old dunce must really be getting desperate to get out of the hole he constantly dig for himself.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Aug 2014, 04:20#40
You think I'm joking Oom....if I said you were a bright, open minded, fair, modern, well informed person I would be joking. If I call you the village idiot, a term which has been used on these Boards for years, I'm trying to be precise.
