PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
23 Aug 2023, 10:17#1
The focus has always been on the catch but that's always been a 50/50 game.
Defending a high ball
The defender, waiting for or running toward the ball facing it, he will always be trying to catch the ball. That is a must, and there's no compromise.
On the attack
You know the defender has to catch it...normally this will be at roughly the defenders shoulder height as he baskets his arms for the catch. The attacker, if he simply aims to tap the ball backwards can meet the ball well above the height that the defenders aims to catch it. Making a clean defensive catch impossible.
I'm starting to think that, on attack, it's better to go for tap back than a 50/50 catch.
What do we think?
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Aug 2023, 11:24#2
I see very little productivity in launching high kicks for most players are not that proficient at competing for the ball from an attacking point of view. It’s mostly hit and miss in most instances conceding possession
If you had players who were brave enough and talented enough to compete in the air then fair enough employ the tactic
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
23 Aug 2023, 12:08#3
You didn't answer the question.
Do I need to draw pictures again?
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Aug 2023, 12:59#4
I actually did not read your post:)
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Aug 2023, 13:57#6
The answer is the tap back as it’s easier to execute but leaves you needing backup to secure the tap which is again 50/50 so is it the answer
At one point we sent Eben out to execute the tap back but that’s seems to have died a death
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
23 Aug 2023, 14:15#7
Seems logical, right Saffex?
If you chasing and and you know there are a few with you...almost no sense at all in trying to go for the catch.
Haha high and large, Moz
Man I'm so stoked he's finally here, just in time for the WC too.
Our forwards are ridiculous actually. We could make two, perhaps 3 dominant packs without having to scratch our heads too much. Lol listening to people from other countries talk about depth, they're green with envy.
Good times.
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
23 Aug 2023, 15:49#9
If you tap it back...the majority of the time, I'd guess +80% on memory/instinct, it's collected by one of your players. The catch attempt is always 50%(all things being equal).
The major advantage being that the ball reaches advancing attackers hands far more quickly because there's no ruck.
What do you think?
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
23 Aug 2023, 15:50#10
Lol I'm sick in bed this week so all over this board like my life depends on it haha
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Aug 2023, 16:49#13
Looking forward to a great game between old rivals! Each team will have multiple objectives. In the case of the ABs we will give some of the newbies on the bench some valuable game time on the big stage, we will be fine tuning the starters & we also want to win the game. Boks probably have similar objectives. Will the Boks start that over weight “bomb squad”, can they last 50 minutes, all will be revealed , lol
Glad to see you are at least temporarily optimistic Beeno, that’s the spirit. We are not too worried about the usual post game depression you go thru as you have been thru it so many times before.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Aug 2023, 18:48#14
Shows how rugby ignorant Doos is. It’s blatantly obvious that trying to recover a high ball that you are chasing is far more difficult than the opposition player facing that ball.
It’s a case of running onto a ball face on versus following the ball over your shoulder
It’s like a fielder taking a high catch coming straight to him versus one running and taking it over his shoulder
One is 90% the other about 40% or less
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Aug 2023, 19:03#16
Bullshit no one has a retrieval rate that high in test rugby chasing a high ball from behind - you are lying as usual
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
24 Aug 2023, 07:43#19
Dues...when we played the ABs recently that's what they did to us.
They weren't trying to catch their attacking high balls, they were simply trying to tap it back and it worked a treat.
Moodie was doing this against Wales and it worked well too.
Let's consider for a moment penalties resulting from an attacker chasing a high ball.
If he's trying to catch it, there's a good chance he ends up looking like he didn't have much chance to get the ball because unless he times his jump perfectly, he may be much lower than the defender who is set and has a much easier time meeting the ball at the apex of his jump.
Now, if the attacker is trying to tap it back...even if he mistimed his jump, his skyward hand is still more likely to be higher than the defender's hands.
Much more difficult to penalise the attacker now and say that he had no chance of challenging for the ball.
So there's another benefit to the tap back.
What do we think?
My last sick day today, so all this rugby gold I'm dropping is about to come to an abrupt end haha
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
22 Oct 2023, 07:15#20
Time to revisit this post after England showed exactly how useful it is to launch contestable kicks, and then simply forget about trying to catch it and rather aim to slap the ball back.
How much ground did England gain doing that?
A ridiculous amount.
The other benefit is, as I stated above, it's incredibly difficult to penalise the attacker because his hands will usually be higher than those of the defender.
I've noticed it occurring more and more recently.
You guys still rate it's always better going for the clean register?
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
22 Oct 2023, 08:03#22
From memory, England cleanly regathered 2 of their own kicks.
...everything else was tapped back.
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
22 Oct 2023, 11:35#24
When/If you re-watch the game, keep a count.
I can remember two...but I remember a bunch of tap-backs.
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
22 Oct 2023, 15:03#28
VisKop, I'm talking about the attacking team...IE the team that kicks the ball tapping it back.
I don't know anyone that would suggest tapping it back when you are catching a highball in your own half.
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
22 Oct 2023, 15:51#29
All things being equal, the defending catcher has higher probability of catching the ball as he mostly isn't chasing it and is generally more set for the catch than the attacking catcher.
60% versus 40%...sound about right?
Perhaps closer to 70% versus 30%?
Again, we're only talking about instances where the ball is gonna land near or inside the defending team's 22.
Assume the attacker is only intent on disrupting, not catching...unless he can comfortably catch it.
How much does that reduce the defenders chances of catching it cleanly?
Assume you are the defending team? A loose ball somewhere near your 22 is generally dangerous.
In that area, if the attacking team tap the ball back, even if the defending team gather the tap, it's still more than half the field away from the attacking team's try line.
So it's slightly more risky for the attackers but probably decent amount more risky, and uncomfortable, for the defending team to be dealing with a loose ball close to their try line.
To me, I'd much rather the attacking team try to catch it...because it increases the chances that my defenders will take a clean catch.
