DEDenny
Captain12,893 posts
24 Nov 2013, 11:19#3
I'll say it again.....HM knows his stuff. Love how he's coached the guys in attacking the breakdown, something previous coaches talked about but never physically mastered. He's also brought consistency of performance in the set pieces, our scrum for example has been consistently good....and getting better.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Nov 2013, 16:37#4
Disagree, while things have improved results wise under Meyer this year we have regressed in terms of personnel. The Kiwi model is the correct model in terms of players, they have a core supplemented by youngsters.......we have a core supplemented by hasbeens.......therein lies the difference and the reason why our squad does not represent the best players we have at our disposal and why the Kiwi squad does.
It is also the very reason the Boks will not challenge the Kiwi's for top spot and why our side will not be properly set for the next WC.
The Bok core should be JP, Habana, Jean, Frans, du Preez, Beast, Bismark, Strauss, Chiliboy, Jannie, Flip, Louw, Brussouw, Alberts and Vermeulen......supplemented by young incumbents or close like Willie, JJ, Serfontein, Lambie, Goosen, Hougaard, Coenie, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Steph du Toit, Kolisi, Coetzee and Arno Botha. Add a few other worthy youngsters to that squad like Taute, de Allende, v/Zyl, Kitshoff, Nkanyane, de Jager, Willemse, Elstadt and CJ Stander and we have the Kiwi model mirrored.
Bringing back Fourie, Steenkamp and Bakkies is regressive and the continued investment in Morne and Pienaar is flawed. Take these five players out of the Bok equation and our side has a positive look about it. Steenkamp and Bakkies stifle in terms of progression and development.......Pienaar, Morne and Fourie stifle our attacking options in a big, big way.
sharkbok
Captain23,297 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
24 Nov 2013, 17:20#5
Saffex why do your squads allways seem to have an unlimited amount of players? If you take the bok core you have mentioned(14 players) along with the young incumbent(13 players) you mentioned, that is close to the limit of the squad.
Just not enough space on the bus for the other 9 youngsters.
Given your squad is allmost exactly the same as what Meyers squad is, except without the other 9 players which is not possible to bring them anyway, what is the point?
Hougaard and Arno Botha are both injured.L
Morne is not great, but given Goosen is just making his 2nd long term injury recovery, and Lambie hardely setting the world alight with his time at 10 for the Sharks this year or the Boks, their are not many option.Jantjies is just a joke and will never be a player that is consistent at a high level.
Pienaar is currently a better player than V/Zyl.Kitshoff is unlucky to be on tour but Steenkamp is playing decent rugby.Bakkies has been great. Dejager and Willemse are not yet ready for test rugby, and may never be a new youngsters will also come through who could be better.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Nov 2013, 17:53#6
Shark I am not saying all those players will be in the squad........pick 35 of that group if it helps. Its more about names, not definitive numbers.
No, my point was that Morne, Pienaar, Fourie, Steenkamp and Bakkies are the 5 regressive selections.
Morne is rubbish, Goosen and Lambie are available and should have played. I'd have Jantjies over Morne anyday.
Pienaar better than v/Zyl, what absolute rubbish......Pienaar has been poor to average all year. v/Zyl, Reinach, Kockott and Schrauder are all better options.
Steenkamp has added no value, we are wasting time with him........Kitshoff, Nkanyane and Marcel v/d Merwe are all far better options given we have the established Beast as our incumbent. Selecting Steenkamp is short sighted.
Bakkies has been great, based on what exactly. Of course de Jager is ready for a back-up role he proved that this S15. The Bakkies selection is another regressive one.
Selection of these olf farts as back-ups would only make sense if we had no worthy youngsters.......this is far from the case
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Nov 2013, 12:36#7
Morne is not rubbish. His goal kicking put the Boks well clear against France. What would IIreland have given for a Morne to take that lat penalty. Truly great kickers are match winners. Even if these guys have some deficiencies you work around them. Steyn is probably worth six points a game before he even starts.
As for all this bleating about the old guys....bs. Do we really think Lood would have been better than Bakkies. I don't think so....Stephanie was no asset at the end of the game.
Would JJ have made the tackles Fury did...and would he have sealed off the outside? No way!
Would Kitshoff really have been better than Steenkamp in the last 20 minutes. Possibly, but at some risk.
Would Labuschagne have put fear into Frenchhearts like Alberts did.....no way.
So there is no issue bringing in the young chaps.....Willie, JJ, Coenie, Malherbe, Serfontein, Stephanie, Kolisi and Arno are all solidly in the mix. That's eight Boks. At that rate our match team would be totally new in the fourth year. Is that not enough change I ask you with tears inmy eyes?
