How Pollard sidestepped WP

 Ex: Rugby 365

Western Province did everything within their power to retain teenage flyhalf Handre Pollard, but still lost the tug-o'-war with the Bulls.

The Paarl Gimnasium scholar, who impressed for the Baby Boks as they clinched the Junior World Championships for the first time last month, caused a stir with the announcement this week that he would depart for Pretoria at the end of the year.

Western Province Rugby CEO Rob Wagner addressed a media conference on Wednesday and explained that the union had done everything they could to keep hold of Pollard, but unfortunately that was not good enough for the 18-year-old who will captain the Western Province Craven Week team next week.

He said: "Western Province rugby identified, nurtured and invested in Handre Pollard from the age of 12. He went into the elite groups and played for the Under-13 side, the U16 side and as you know he is now captaining the U18 team.

"On the 10th of August 2010 Hennie Bekker, who runs that department, met with Pollard senior, Handre Pollard and the CEO of the union and officially handed him a contract," added the Western Province boss.

Wagner explained that in September 2010 the agreeement had still not yet been signed as Pollard and his father claimed that he was still to decide whether he would play rugby or study after school.

Wagner went through the communications between Pollard's father and the union in detail, making it clear that they had attempted to finalise a contract with the young player numerous times.

He quoted correspondence between Bekker and Pollard senior in August 2011 in order to back up his claim that the union had done everything they could to hold on to him.

Bekker wrote: "I have heard that Handre has already decided to sign with the Bulls. I would appreciate if you would inform me of the facts."

Pollard senior responded: "Thanks for the interest but as I mentioned in my letter last year Handre will only decide next year (2012) about his rugby future. Numerous agents and unions contact us regularly and everyone is speculating but he will make a final call next year after we have decided what he will study."

Pollard was invited to train with the senior Stormers squad at the end of 2011, but rumours that he had signed with the Bulls surfaced once again at the start of the year, so Bekker wrote to Pollard senior again at the end of March 2012.

Bekker wrote: "To my great surprise and disappointment I heard that Handre has already signed with the Bulls. As we discussed he would also have to speak to us before making such a decision."

Pollard senior replied: "As far as I am aware I, as the parent, must also sign a contract and at this stage I have not signed. Rest assured that Handre and myself have the greatest appreciation for what you have done for him."

Wagner said that SARU regulations prohibit any union from offering a schoolboy player a contract without informing his home union, unless an agreement had been reached the year before.

He said: "If Handre signed a contract in 2012, then it would have to be in keeping with the SARU regulations which say that we would have to have been notified that they had approached our player.

"The Bulls do follow the regulations and they do follow the contracting procedures, therefore I must assume that he has not been contracted in 2012 and would have been contracted earlier than that."

Wagner concluded that although he did not want to point any fingers at anyone else he remained confident that Western Province could not have done any more than they did.

"I don't think Western Province could have done anything more to try and keep the player. We invested a significant amount of development into the player and despite rumours that he was possibly moving we took Mr Pollard's word and continued to provide opportunities for the player," he said.

This looks more like unhappiness from WP rugby that they have been sidestepped by the situation and did not even have an opportunity to negotiate for a contract. I smell something fishy going on here.

Seems WP are a bunch of clueless clowns when it comes to contract negotiation and keeping their hands on the players within their union.......hell its been Sadie, JJ, Quinn Roux and now Pollard.......certain people are not doing their jobs properly, including the coach

Agree 100% Saff. If the Stormers have made the same mistake four times regarding contracts, where does the problem lie? You got it, with the Stormers.

Saffex

I agree with you on this one.   I think the Stromers have a huge prroblem in negotiation - but I do not entirely agree about the invovlement of the coach.   Contract negotiation is a legal issue - and I believe we weill never found out the truth about what really happened here.   What is evident to me is that they can make crap offers and then started to moan when Pollard's father gave them the run-around.  

In any player contract like this one - there is one very important clause relating to money and that is how much is offered.   I think that is where the Stormers and Western Province fail in negotiations - they offer less in the hope that people from the Western Cape would not leave.    Hate to say it - but as you pointed out, this is happening time-and-time again and if they have not learnt by now - they never would.   End of story.

What the ifdiots involved does not realise is that they are failing rugby in the Western Cape and somebody should get fired.

Sounds like old Handre is a bit of a liar. And thick as well. Even if the Bools were the preferred option, why not give WP a chance to up the bidding. And the the WP chaps hardly had the pulse of this situation. A classic case of two naive negotiators acheiving a poor result.

That said, rather than watching the dolphins off Bantry Bay, he will now be seeing the dust devils in Pamplona. If this goes according to script, like JJ and Sadie, he will prove to be no great loss.

mozart
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 933 RE: How Pollard sidestepped WP
July 05, 2012, 15:08:36

Sounds like old Handre is a bit of a liar. And thick as well. Even if the Bools were the preferred option, why not give WP a chance to up the bidding. And the the WP chaps hardly had the pulse of this situation. A classic case of two naive negotiators acheiving a poor result.

Mostly what I thought as well. Although i didn't take Handre as tha Liar, i took his daddy as the culprit from that account. however there are always two sides to a coin.

 Latest Release on Player contracts by WP rugby:

WP on player contracting

With the contracting window now open, the following are key points to take note of;

Professional Era
WP operates in a professional rugby era. Out- of-contract players have freedom of movement and there is global competition for this scarce resource. Players will move for many reasons including playing opportunity and financial reward. 

WP Structures
WP prides itself on its structures and ability to un-earth, nurture and develop top talent. The Toyota School of Excellence, our representative team structures and the WPR Institute have been very successful in doing this. It is important to note that graduating from these junior structures and playing at Super Rugby level already are the likes of Etzebeth, Kolisi, Kitshoff, Carr, Malherbe and Elstadt, all on long term contracts and already making their marks. In addition to this, the results of our U19, U21 and senior teams, as well as performances at the very highest level, demonstrate a unified, structured and very successful, in recent years, approach.

Retention of home grown talent
WP will as a principle look to retain the best of its home grown talent, whilst contracting in the best outside talent where and when required. 

Ethical and honest
In doing so WP will operate ethically and honestly and will not, for example, offer guaranteed starting positions for signatures. 

Team ethic, passion and loyalty
Team ethic, passion and loyalty remain important principles to WP Rugby. An individual will never be considered at the expense of greater team harmony. 
WP Rugby will not look to retain players that do not wish to remain in the province, are not here for the right reasons, nor will they look to impede a player’s growth and development. 

With specific regard to Handre Pollard

Identification
• WP identified and nurtured and invested in Pollard’s talent from a young age (12) and he represented WP at U13, U16 and U18 levels. 
• Senior Coach Allister Coetzee invited Pollard to train with the Stormers in 2011 already. 

Negotiation
• WP negotiated with Mr Pollard senior in good faith since August 2010 when a contract was offered for Pollard junior.
• Mr Pollard senior has expressed to senior WP officials, coaching and scouting and development staff, including Thelo Wakefield (President), Allister Coetzee (Senior Professional Coach), Rob Wagner (MD), Hennie Bekker (School of Excellence) and Jacques Hanekom (WPRI), on numerous occasions spanning 2010-2012, both verbally and in writing, that only offers had been received from the Bulls and the Sharks and that no contract had been signed.
• In addition in both newspaper and radio reports – both Pollard senior and junior are on record confirming same. 
• WP only had official confirmation on Pollard junior signing for the Bulls via the formal press release issued by the Blue Bulls.
• Given WP’s investment and continuous contract communication, both verbally and in writing, since 2010, WP Rugby expected the courtesy and good faith notification of his signing outside of the Province. 
• WP has invested a significant amount in the development of the player a career that to date has spanned U13-U18 with the Province.
• Despite the rumours about a move, WP took Mr Pollard at his word and has continued to support the player, recently appointed as our WP Craven Week Captain.

Way forward
• In the professional era and given our general principles outlined above, WP respects the will of a player to move.
• Players will be identified, nurtured and make their names here – others will be bought in – players will be lost and players will be let go – that is the professional nature of sport.

 Why should they give them a chance to up the bid? IMO, it is narow minded of SARU to come up with such an autocratic rule. They are taking away a player's right to contract with who he wishes to contract. 

Apart from that - and before everybody jumps on me because he and others have signed with the Bulls - the Stormers/WP are the last to cast stones. They and Bernie Habana bulshitted the Bulls with his move. They strongarmed Jaque Fourie and Brian Mujati out of the Lions. The same with Enrico Januarie, and Conrad Jantjies. Also from the Lions. Rassie raped the Cheetahs from players. Duane Vermeulen and Tiaan Liebeneberg to name two. The used the same strongarm tactics to rob, and that was exactly what it was, Cobus van der Merwe away from the Griquas, and when they didn't like him, they dropped him like a bad habbit. Stuff them. It is their turn to suffer. 

I blame the coach because he fails to appreciate the talent around him. He never played players like JJ and Sadie hence their departure. Same with Quinn Roux - good old Coetzee preferred the bog ordinary de Kock Steenkamp ahead of Roux - how shortsighted is this guy?

Hell we see him play Habana at 13, when he has the likes of Pat Howard and JP du Plessis at his disposal. Not to mention v/d Heever moving to the Cape and mostly being ignored. Coetzee is just lucky he has one hell of a squad of players at his disposal for failing which his credentials as a player manager and talent spotter would be severly questioned.

He strikes me as another Jake White, able to see the obvious selections like Habana, Jean, Joe, Aplon, Grant, Duvenhage, Kitshoff, Etzebeth, Bekker, Kolisi, Elstadt, Vermeulen and Schalk - but incapable of identifying the broader talent that sits staring in his face

The usual bending of the situation to to suit the facts. Vlag I'm sure your anti WP sentiment would play better on SS. And Dave your reading of this as Coetzee's problem is laughable. The Bools played an underhanded game, and Pollard's father is so low class he just lied on behalf of his son. What an example for the kid. Disgusting....who needs the Pollards.

 Moz I was not so much about the Pollard case, more Coetzee in general - there are too many examples of good players fleaing thanks to his failure to recognise or utilize them inclusively. The guy does not have his finger on the pulse.

Pollard's dad sounds suspect and I'm not convinced Pollards move to the Bulls is a clever one. 

 Pollard Sr obviously milked the situation for his son by allowing him the benefit of WP structure and never intended to sign with WP. Maybe he sees more opportunity there or prefers the style of play

Don't think you can blame this on Coetzee. He has to play the squad that is provided for him - only 22 game day spots and with so many close games there have been few opportunities to emtpy the bench. Allowing the starters to play together as much as possible and develop cohesiveness is key to winning the close games as well. Where WP is missing the boat is bringing in starters from other provinces - it seems more and more obvious that the young talent pipeline in the Cape is sufficient to provide replacements where they are needed.

 Disagree oi playing de Kock Steenkamp ahead of Quinn Roux all season was a joke - it smacks of a coach completely out of touch with what constitutes a good player. Roux vs Steenkamp is chalk and cheese stuff

 This pollard issue reeks, however i would like to hear the other side of the story as well. This is only the story from WP rugby side.

Saf nice to go off topic here i say.

This has to do woth the integrity of how the issue was handled by all paries involved.

The scary thing is it seems then that as the Bulls normally play by the rules, they actually must have signed him ages ago. but Pollard senior held WP on a leash. If he was signed in 2012 then the new SARU ruling should have come into play. Seeing as he is signed and still not completed his last year at school, not sure on the exact ruling of the new rule, this would indicate to the fact that he was signed lat year or the year before that.

This however takes nothing away from the fact that WP refuse to go outside of their rules on sighning a player. And they will not stand in his way if he doesn't want to be with the team.

 I still think it is a stupid rule. Imagine if you finish school and you want to go to Stellenbosch University, but because you live and went to school in Polokwane, you have to go to the University of Limpopo. I wonder when somebody is going to challenge this in tne Con Court. Is it not your right to choose who you want to work for? What would have happened with "all the time and money" spent on Pollard by WP, if his parents moved to Pretoria at the end of his grade 11 year. Would they still want to force him to go back to Cape Town to "work back" what has been spent on him?

 No one is forcing no one with the new rule, seems you understand it a bit wrong here. The rule just states that no kid can be sighned before a certain time/age(not sure on the details) And if another union wants to sighn him they are to inform the home union first.

This just means that the home union has a chance to first make a counter offer. The issue here is that this rule wa not adhered to, that points to the fact that :

1. He was signed before the rule took effect - pointing to dishonesty on Pollard senior's side.

2. He was signed after the rule took effect - pointing to dishonesty from the Bulls side as WP was not informed of said siginign and had to learn about it in a press release from the Bulls plus it seems he was signed before appropriate age.