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FORUM / RUGBY /  How some site members live in denial of rugby reality

How some site members live in denial of rugby reality

Started by clevermike18 REPLIES753 VIEWS· 17 Nov 2019, 10:00
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 10:00
#1
17 Nov 2019, 10:00#1

When one reads what hogwash is produced on site one wonders what rugby idiocy was always supported by some members and how they describe as to what happened over the last ten years in SA rugby is a mystery to most members.

In reality we have in the decade have four coaches and only one of those four achieved anything in reality.  However, the achiever are condemned and the others either not mentioned  or at least one of them praised for his non-achievement.  Lets forget about De Villiers - he spout nonsense and the decisions were really made by some senior forwards players who were more interested in protecting their own interests than the interests of the team.

The next coach was Meyer - coming in with high promise and collapsing in his first year as a coach.   His selection criterium was always to pick players he was familiar with and in his first year he picked 14 Bulls players to play in tests - whether they deserve selection on the basis of performance or not.   At the end of 2012 Meyer said he made a mistake in that regard and regretted his mistake in doing it - but he never really changed in his approach.  

There were always the problem of how the Springboks play in tests - the famous Meyer game plan.   We have a member on sigh who wrote theoretical treatises about flat rugby attacks by the backline while in reality what was played was 10 man rugby with the leather being kicked off the ball with no real regard to accuracy and quality of the kicks,   Morne Steyn was King and as longa s he keeps on kicking accurately at goal, he remains to be their king.  When aimless and inaccurate kicking was criticized by other members they were attacked all out as talking nonsense.  The only flat attacks noticeable were when the no 12 center was passed the ball and had no option bar to crashball.

The situation changed for the worse when Myer started urging players who retired form test rugby in 2011 to return to play again for the Springboks.   Of those players only one had a 50:50 record in performance - the rest was ta terrible disaster.   After dropping Morne Steyn in 2012 for disastrous kicking performances.  the age return era was made a fact of life in 2013 and in two cases endured to 2015.   Meyer's famous term was -  "I know what those players were capable of in the past"  forgetting totally when that past was/


2013  was Meyers glory year and they beat Samoa. Italy and Scotland easily in the June tests.   The RC was the normal - iffy games against Australia and Argentina and losses against the AB's.   However, for Meyer it was an achievement - it was an improvement on what happened in 2012.   

In 2014 the Springboks started well in the first test against Wales and nearly self=destruct in the second test.   The geriatrics started failing badly  and after the SR the whole card structure collapsed.   The only thing noticeable was the only AB win in Johannesburg.   This happened because of the top class performance of Pollard and despite the non-contribution by Matfield whose only contribution was to lose a line out on Springbok throw-in leading to  a try putting the AB's in the lead.  No problem - Lambie under constant attack by some members saved the day by a 55 meter penalty conversion.  According to the site loonies it was not a pressure kick - the reality was that without the kick Meyer would have had a total losing record of all games lost against the AB's.   

Despite the euphoria about Pollard he did not last long as Springbok flyhalf.   The problem was that th only real requirement expected from Pollard was to kick balls and he was not very good in that.  The other backline player who showed promise became totally demoralized and started to look silly in games.   Both just dropped back in performance and that was noticeable in 2015.   Meyer's selections for the WC squad was a total mess.   He brought back players who did not play a competitive game of rugby for up to 18 months.   Players injured seriously earlier in 2015 were selected without playing any rugby for 6 months or more.   De Villiers after a horrific injury in 2014 and returning to play his first test after return against Argentina was injured again in that test - in which he was not really up to standard.  Kirchner - who played no tests since 2013 was in the squad - Alberts who played no rugby for 16 months was in - Paige was in for no reason other than he played for the Bulls that year - and glory above glory Morne Steyn was back despite the Perth disaster of 2014.   In total there were 8 out of the 31 squad members who can be classed as unplayable.  

The easy way was to blame a player like Kriel for the loss while the number of players who under-performed reached an amazing level of incompetence- so the Meyer admirers ended up with the BS that could be expected from them.    The Springboks ended up with a center combination who played combined a total of 3 tests as a center pair before the WC.   Because of the Matfield scenario - players like  Etzebeth and De Jager had to play in every subsequent test.  since any further loss would have meant elimination of the Springboks in the competition.   Come along the quarterfinal and six minutes before the end Wales was leading in the game.  The players themselves took the matter into their own hands and  won the game despite the Meyer game plan - the players tried a move in the Captains run an it worked, but never discussed it with Meyer,  By the time the semi-final arrived the players forced to play in each test after the Japan disaster was dead on their feet.   No wonder the Springboks lost the semi - not helped at all by Matfield - who buggered up royally when he replaced De Jager.   A new game plan was in place - don't pass the ball to the centers if it could be helped at all.    The AB's scored two tries - the one was after De Jager missed a tackle on an AB player - the other was to develop a lie to blame De Allende for the try being scored.

On return at the airport Meyer said he looked forward to renewal of his contract with all the young talent coming through.   Everyone of his loyalists was on a witch hunt against the same players and was supporting Meyer all out,  He soon enough got the message of no chance of any potential contract renewal and then opted out of applying for contract renewal.  The refrain was that Meyer did not want the job - hence his non-application - the reality was that Meyer as a coach was useless and no real rugby enthusiasts wanted him anyway.   So what happened subsequently - Meyer ended up as coach of Stade Francais and after 18 months was given a choice - either you reign or we fire you.   He resigned but the lesson was clear and loud - he failed as club coach even more than he failed as SA coach.


Lets leave out the ugly Coetzee episode and move to Erasmus.   The latter was attacked from the date it became known that he was appointed.   The first attack was that he is a coward who rana way from teams he coached when the going got heavy.    The second one was that he is not a coach's backside according to some and that he does not know how real rugby should be played.   Erasmus found players who became used to play test rugby - but who was dispirited and  lost all confidence in themselves and the team.   Players had o be tested to find out whether they were in fact test standard.  A monumental task was assigned to Erasmus - save the Springboks from the total disaster created by his predecessors.
Obviously the first task was to devise a plan in which the players would become partners.   The second one was to find players to fill gaps in the team.   The first year was largely experimentation as to where players would come from to fill the gaps in the team as well.   On the whole there was encouraging signs - the first away win by the Springboks against the AB's in a decade is an example - but the overall result was a chorus of doomsayers by the same members who condemned him when he was appointed,   The normal process was o give him a demeaning name - eg Eraser and J-Raz,   When positive points - like a drastic increase in try-scoring  - were mentioned they wanted to have a fit.
However, 2019 saw a marvelous revival in Springbok rugby and they won both the RC and the WC trophies.   So what happen next.  One of the most persistent idiots on site -
*    claimed that the 2015 WV team performed better in the 2015 RC performed better when losing all three RC tests than the Cup winning Springboks did in 2019 and tried to use selected stats to prove it - leaving out critical elements like  try and point scoring as well as test results'
*     did the same as to the WC series;
*     criticized the Erasmus game plan and produced a theoretical game plan never practiced to prove Meyer was a better coached than Erasmus - he obviously did not know what the real Erasmus plan was; and endlessly preached doom and gloom about the future of the team; and 
*     keep on attacking key players in the Erasmus squad necessary to win the WC.
The attack on Erasmus was relentless and kempt  on happening all the time.   Eraser is still the name they used for him. - he panicked and changed the game plan for the final because of media pressure.   
Mozart suddenly claim that Erasmus is implementing the game plan he always favoured - while in fact he favoured the ten-man game in the past.   He also claimed like  AO that the opposing teams will find counters to anything Erasmus devise and the doom and gloom forecasts followe thick and fast.
As per normal we can expect the nonsense on site to continue unabated and if they are wrong  a string of excuses and claims about how lucky Erasmus was in 2019.   


 


   


                                       

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 10:46
#2
17 Nov 2019, 10:46#2

Oh boy, Lügnerin is not a happy camper! Another dose of 'wai u rz stoopidz udn ich nicht stoopidz'. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 10:50
#3
17 Nov 2019, 10:50#3

At least a  realist - not a habitual lair like you.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 10:50
#4
17 Nov 2019, 10:50#4

Duplicate

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 10:56
#5
17 Nov 2019, 10:56#5
The beast within approves of that statement. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Nov 2019, 16:23
#6
17 Nov 2019, 16:23#6

This all stems from Muck's insistence that we play expansive rugby.....that good defence is secondary to running gloriously through open  fields.


 Instead we found simply reverting to our traditional game as we have long advocated is such powerful muti that even without an inside centre and blindside flank,  we were able to win the WC. That despite the coach not developing one offensive tactic, other than running on turnover ball, crash ball and box kicks.


Muck is so confused he is writing longer and longer posts trying to understand where his vision all went wrong..

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 17:03
#7
17 Nov 2019, 17:03#7

This is a lie that invented by Mozart as per normal.  I  always favoured comprehensive rugby - while he favoured the 10 man game.  Mozart is so confused by Erasmus that he attacked  him endlessly from word go when he was appointed. 

I think that Mozart's insistence on traditional SA Rugby developed from his insistence on 10 man rugby and the fact is the use of the term is also BS,    Jean de Villiers denied that it existed and so did all real rugby experts.   The term was developed to cover the 10 man game and was a great favourite when Meyer was coach.  

What it meant is still only clear in the mind of the guy who use it regularly on site.   The meaning differs from game to game.    If the Springboks win the game they played traditional SA Rugby - if they lose the game they did not and a player has to be found to blame for the loss and that list is restricted to two or three players,

Nothing positive from a rugby perspective is ever to be expected from the admirers of  the rubbish rugby played under Meyer and  Coetzee,     

  .         

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 17:07
#8
17 Nov 2019, 17:07#8

Fewer passes
Fewer runs
Fewer carries
Fewer metres
Fewer linebreaks
Fewer defenders beaten
Fewer offloads
Fewer assists
More kicking
More metres conceded via kicking
More tries conceded via kicking
More handling errors

These are inescapable truths. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 17:30
#9
17 Nov 2019, 17:30#9

So what are you comparing - more wins than before - more tries scored - more points gained - more thinking rugby played - more Cup wins  as against the losing games under the previous two coaches,  Less  idiocy and brainless postings will also help.   All you ever came up is total BS and distortions as per normal.

Why was your hero Meyer booted out of Stade Francais??????  Because he had NO GAME PLAN and NO IDEA ABOUT TEAM SELECTION despite all the postings you wrote to the contrary,.   Same happened when he was Springbok coach,  

Idiot Speak is a language on rugby issues you developed to a fine art. 

  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 18:08
#10
17 Nov 2019, 18:08#10

"Why was your hero Meyer booted out of Stade Francais??????  Because he had NO GAME PLAN and NO IDEA ABOUT TEAM SELECTION"

You need to calm down Lügnerin, you're becoming hysterical. The above is your opinion. Do you know what that means? Unless, of course, you have some evidence. Maybe a quote. No? I thought not. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Nov 2019, 18:23
#11
17 Nov 2019, 18:23#11
It's this simple Muck.....the Boks won the WC with the best defence  and Beast's domination of Dan Coles. You told us the Beast was done and you emphasized attack, leaving defence as an after thought.
How much more wrong could you be?
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 18:56
#12
17 Nov 2019, 18:56#12

We can put it another way, why did the Boks lose to New Zealand? I see now there is a narrative that Rassie didn't really lose that game, he just fixed the result to get a better draw. Well, we didn't know that it would be so much easier at the time. Bang goes another theory, and down goes the HMS Lügnerin, buried beneath the waves. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 19:32
#13
17 Nov 2019, 19:32#13

Lookimg at Beast when co ached by Meyer and Coetzee - sure he was indeed done.   Coached b Erasmus and Proudfoot he was a different player,  Comprehende dimness?

No they lost to NZ because of a missed tackle by Mostert and the physical deficiency he represented,    That was the real reason and Mostert did not start again in crucial games. 

I would not talk about losing against the AB's - at least a  loss against the 15 ranked Japan in 2015 was a hell of a lot worse than any loss against the AB's would ever be.   

By the way dimness with all that ball handling etc you listed above - how many tests did the Springboks between 2012 and 2017 played against the AB's and how many of those did they win?  Add to that how many the Springboks played against them in 2018 and 2019 and what were the outcomes.

It is too easy to deal with idiots on site - it is becoming boring,              

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 19:46
#14
17 Nov 2019, 19:46#14

You have made a fool of yourself. The most dominant pack of the decade was coached by Meyer. Team's didn't dare concede lineouts anywhere near their 22 because we were consistently rolling them in for tries or milking teams for penalties. You began the narrative last year that players lost confidence and form under Meyer, and I effortlessly shredded those. Stop drawing these comparisons and you won't taste egg anymore. You won't stop because you are literally filled with unjustifiable hate for Meyer. I am perfectly happy to just discuss Rassie's coaching on its own merit, but you go the extra mile to drag everyone else into the mix. 

As for the All Black loss? A number of things occurred: 1. Our attack was exceedingly one-dimensional. 2. New Zealand weathered our physicality and struck back when they had the chance. 3. They exploited our immobile defence. Unfortunately, Mostert's arms weren't the necessary 4 metres to cover his less competent teammates - such as the Steph who rushed out of the line to take himself out of the game by clattering into the wrong All Black.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 20:06
#15
17 Nov 2019, 20:06#15

Sure - especially when the pack was retreating at jet speed  against the Argentina pack - especially in 2013 and 2014.   There were others as well where the pack failed badly.    There was no domination under Meyer!!!!!!!!!!!   LMAO. 

Mostert missed the tackle - dimness - accept that as well as him missing other tackles also.   He was piss poor in that match and he was dropped from the starting lineup as a result.  I do not think h e will play for the Springboks again in future, .  .

What about the so-called selected data you use to demean the present coach.   Where does that come form idiot?         

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 20:14
#16
17 Nov 2019, 20:14#16

2013 was the most physically dominant the Boks have ever been in this decade. 2014 was where we saw the likes of Lood, Steph and Coetzee creep into the team. 

Maybe he won't play for the team again, that doesn't mean the coach is correct to drop him. Mostert was vindicated in this world cup. Lood was exposed as the flat-track bully he always was. 

My information has spanned every medium. It's irrefutable. Hence not one Rassie apologist has been able to successfully attack what I have put forward. Only you are foolish enough to persist. You always resurrect old beaten arguments, never learning from the past. Ever.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Nov 2019, 21:17
#17
17 Nov 2019, 21:17#17

So you missed the jet speed  retreat in the scrumming against Argentina in 2014 totally when Jannie and Beast was the props.  And also you imagined you saw dominance on scrumming in 2013.   Wonder how that happened.   No dimness who weakened the forward pack totally in 2014?   It was a guy called Matfield - Du Toit did not start in any match in 2014, neither did De Jager,  Homework to do for you again - EINA.

Flat track Bully  - is that a new Rugby Term discovered by Mozart and you?   LM AO   

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
17 Nov 2019, 21:21
#18
17 Nov 2019, 21:21#18

Lood played nine tests in 2014, three as the starter. He was left for dead by los Pumas - you blamed Bissie for his mistake, the same way you use Mostert as a scapegoat for Stephanie. 

Stephanie played two tests in 2013 and was part of the squad throughout 2014 and 2015. 

"Homework to do for you again - EINA."

Eina indeed. Here's an aspirin. 




"Flat track Bully - is that a new Rugby Term discovered by Mozart and you? LMAO"




You may put your big butto back on now. Thanks. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2019, 02:42
#19
18 Nov 2019, 02:42#19

In which tests did he start?   O yes I forgot  - one was a  tests against Scotland won by a huge margin in June  - which was also Pollard's first test,  and he did start a few tests when Pollard was injured,   The Argentina test was also the last test of Bakkies - he was poor as he was in other tests played since coming back from retirement - so how was De Jager to be blamed for that story?     I blamed Bismarck for what?

Thanks for the definition - but what sport is being involved here?   Certainly not a team sport like Rugby - never heard any rugby expert - but two village idiots on this site pretending they know something about rugby  - using it against one test player and only one,   Hell you must be getting dimmer by the day.   So who are you talking about here?  In 2014 and 2015  it must have been Matfield.  He was beaten even by Japan - so he could not have been a flat track bully,   He also was beaten by every team he played against in 2014 - so the opposing players were all flat track bullies?????   

So what am I blaming Mostert for?  Missing routine tackles and you two tried the diversion BS to blame Du Toit for them.   O sure - in the AB test in the WC - Mostert missed 4 tackles - so is Du Toit blamed for all four misses?   If one has the full record - devised by you two on this site - there is one conclusion to be reached  - lies do not hold water even when you may think so on this site.


           

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