Huw Jones vs the Bok centres

And Jones was the center ignored by Coertsee when he selected useless De Jongh ahead of him when playing for the Stormers.   I made many comments on that in the past and you insisted DE Joh was the netter center of the two.

How many turnovers in possession did De Allende make yesterday?

Maaik, it's good for a centre to make turnovers,  but he must first do his job as center before trying his hand at flanker play...and then we have a flanker trying his hand at centre...LOL

Mozart

So tell us which center would you prefer ahead of De Allende.

Mike

That angle of yours defies rational thinking.

Nobody else has been given a thorough chance.

You want to keep selecting DDA on that basis.

There are at least five better players. They just don't have the Bok caps that DDA does.

Kwagga, Serfontein, JVR, Pollard, Kok, Esterhuizen, Kriel(With Combrink or Am at 13).

Kwagga seems a poor idea huh?

Ok, well name just one thing in the last two seasons that DDA has done in a Bok jersey that Kwagga could not.

So if Kwagga isn't fit for the spot...then DDA should certainly not be.

I won't support the selection of Kwagga as a centre, but I cannot argue against him starting ahead of Damian. André has been given a very raw deal. He has played so much better, but Rassie is deeply infatuated with Damian as an attacking weapon. How does it feel to have a Bok centre who lets attackers run past him? Is Damian becoming a coward on top of his other flaws? Rassie is making it very hard to defend his coaching. 

AO

Andre would never have tackled Jones and preventing the Scots to score another try.   Neither would he have made the two ball turnovers De Allende made - so try again.

Problem is the two major carries of Andre this year resulted in a ball turnover in one and a penalty for the opposition in the second one.  His defense was also poor and his tackle count in the main low.

Who ran past De Allende Dimness?    

Serfontein or de Jongh are the only proven 12's. Plu m, your Lions bias is clouding your judgement.  Rassie is no fool, there's a reason he's selecting the way he does. 

Draaad. 

Both JVR and Kwagga would do a better job than DDA.

The fact is.that his.base skill level is so low that almost anyone would be better.

It's been another entire year of nothing from this guy...again.

JvR got one opportunity under Coetzee and failed.   One should not blame him for that - Coetzee  would destroy any backline player.

On the other hand JvR did not play enough rugby for the Lions  this year to really evaluate his any rugby for the Lions this year - so I am not sure about him.  When he did play he and Vorster were alternates in starting and being on the bench - but he was also off as a result of injuries. 

Has he played any rugby for his  NH club?   Not sure at all.   

Let me put it bluntly I do not know and nobody else knows  what his present situation as to performance is.   I always was a great admirer of him - but the present situation is not at all clear.   I think that when he does play club rugby JvR should be watched to see whether he is still as good as he promised when he was younger. 

Much as I like Kwagga I am aware of backline players for some reason or another moving to loosie positions - but have never heard of a loosie being moved to play in backlines.   What should happen is that Kwagga should be moved on Super Rugby level to see whether  he can actually perform as center. It would be unfair to the player himself if he without any experience be required to play at center. on test level.   

At this point, the moment DDA gets a ball and manages to simply pass it with some iota of timing then we sing his praises. It's the most basic of basic skills.

Often times, he doesn't even have to time anything, he simply has to pass...and even then it seems abridge to far from Mr Carthorse.

The way the forwards are playing, winning every war up front, it's such a waste.

We dont need a genius. Just anyone capable of the basics of 12 play. Pollard isn't a 12 specialist yet he outcalsses DDA habitually.

His early substitution yesterday told us how much confidence rAssie has in him. There was almost 30 mins left on the clock when he went off. And yet again he wasnt even slightly missed.

When a lock runs better of the shoulder of a 10 than what his 12 does, you know you're up shit street.

Begs the question.

Why is he even there at all?

Mozart

Stop your nonsense.   Fat Fransie could not run 30 meters without being out of breath and his defense was always BS because of pace deficiency. Estrhuizen had a very poor defensice record this year - much poorer than De Allende and at this stage Van Rensburg is an unknown.  You previously identified both as being pace deficient. 

Whether you like it or not De Allende did make a try-saving tackle and that remans a fact.

I have always said if thee was another player out-performing De Allende by all means bring him in.   Your mention of Fat Fransie - the only center described by his coach - who knows better  tha n you - that he is not a center at all.   His atrocious proven performance record in 2014 and 2015 prove that beyond a shadow of doubt.  

My challenge remain - name somebody better and  I will support him - but please be factual and not prejudiced.

Plum

Sorry - Pollard missed three tackles in that 30 minutes and that could be seriously problematic.  To have Jantjies and Pollard playing next to each other is a massive defensive liability.    

Pollard is a good flyhalf - not a good enough center.

99% of Damian's passes are to connect along a chain to get the ball wide. Which means he is in pressured and doesn't have a defender within 2 metres of him at best. When he has all his games of tractoring, it's against a passive defence who let him run at them. What does it amount to. Review the Brisbane test, the Pretoria test and the England test a couple of weeks ago, you'll see his running games are never against a proactive rush. When the teams do rush, he fades away. Where was a Damian against England when they began moving the ball? He was totally lost. He was bamboozled on defence repeatedly and played no part in our attacking movements. Against Scotland, when that Scot broke down the short side after fielding a kick, it was Damian who let him go. He is now letting defenders run past him. I have 7 instances of these in the past three tests. He is a liability at every level. 

At least with André we can apply pressure. He can read the game, and be left to defend on his won. He can also pass and hit the line like a truck. When he busts a tackle he is making ground very quickly. Damian looks like a first year rookie. 

AO and lost possession in the process - and what about his deficient defense.   Why do you think Erasmus in the last two games did not select Esterhuizen - even on the bench?   He obviously does not believe your fairy tales.

Estrhuizen had a very poor defensice record this year - much poorer than De Allende

Nonsense. Damian's tackle success for the season is at 84% and Andre's at 82%.

It's actually worse than the stats show. Damian doesn't make any dominant tackles. Many tackles which have been logged as successful were weak and ineffective. Mike relies on ESPN because he cannot reference anything in game. André was significantly better on defence. Rassie must think so too, as André was left to defend without support on most occasions. Something Damian would struggle to do. 

Mozart 

Why?  Esterhuizen had enough chances and was poor in three of the four tests played.    

AO 

Dream on - I would rather have a tackler making tackles - than one making little tackles and missing more and then claim without prove  that he is a stronger tackler. 

André reads the game very well. He has good sense for the players around him and the ensuing threats. Numerous times he has defused pressure when play breaks down. He can assert pressure on the opposition defensively, forcing them to play the ball earlier than they'd like. Teams don't like to run at 10 and 12 when they have big hitters to run into, but a nice outside rush will force them back inside to the killing lane where our forwards can feast upon them too. This is close to the 2007 model. André makes good decisions and has good fundamentals. He doesn't panic when he has the ball. Damian panics, and is now too scared to close down runners and is letting them breakout. André will chase them down. He has fight in him. He wants to dominant the opposition. We need more players like that. 

Rassie is letting the team down with his insistence upon Damian. Maybe he is relying on the inputs of Stick to build the backline? Either way, it isn't good enough. Damian has been a failure, just as he has been all year. Just as he has been the past five seasons. We want to be the best in the world yet we entertain mediocrity for too long. New Zealand would never let a player play so poorly for so long. They are proactive about retooling their players and hold them to a much higher standard. Damian is left to underperform without any repercussions. Worse, the media gushes over him. He has been one of the worst Boks of the past 20 years, but has the reputation of a Nonu, Roberts, Jean, Horan, O'Driscoll. It's a disgrace and embarrassment. 

Mike

The argument cannot be made simpler.

I'm gonna try to summarise it into one short sentence...

DDA is contributing so little that almost anyone would be better.

Jeremy Ward at 90kgs is a ball player. He's been impressive. Lively and shown maturity on attack this year. 

Compared to him, DDA a is a Neanderthal with down syndrome.

Fact is, DDA is done. He'll be subbed even earlier this Saturday and that'll probably be the last we see of him. 

Estethuizen, another Sharks player is next in line. Makes it all the easier to bring Ward into the fold.