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I am sick and Tired of the contributors to this Site who always

Started by clevermike24 REPLIES386 VIEWS· 15 Jul 2013, 01:59
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 01:59
#1
15 Jul 2013, 01:59#1
refer back to the glorious past and past great players - who at times they insist on getting back into the Springbok team purely because they were Springboks in the past - even though some were very average and others failed badly in the past - but all is suddenly forgiven. There are even some present Springboks whose actual contributions are unacceptable and non-productive. We should forget about the past and look at the present and the future. What have we got that is still useful and what should we look at in future. Although we disagree totally about individuals - I think Saffex has more positive than negative points insofar as his team selections are concerned. Lets look at present and future players that would make a positive difference to the Springbok saga:- Full Backs - Le Roux, Taute, Steyn (if he gets his act together Wings - Habana, Jordaan, Van der Merwe, Senatla Centers - De Villiers, Serfontein, JJ Engelbrecht, Swanepoel, Van Rensburg, Du Plessis Flyhalfs - Goosen, Lambie, Pollard Scrummies - Reinach, Van Zyl, Hougaard (if the latter gets his act together) No 8 - Vermeulen, Botha, Stander Loosies - Louw, Coetzee, Labuschagne, Elstadt, Kolisi Locks - Etzebeth, Du Toit, Du Plessis, Schickeling Props - Beast, Oosthuizen, Malherbe, Kitshoff, Nyakane Hookers - Du Plessis, Strauss, Cooper. Some of the above may be unkwown to you at present - but in another year they will be household names destined for celebrity player status.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Jul 2013, 08:32
#2
15 Jul 2013, 08:32#2

 ou Maaaikie could you please name these overthe hill Boks still in the Bok side and then also who are punting what over the hill etc players for the Bok side.

By the way dont you think Morne again was very good against the Stormers?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 11:03
#3
15 Jul 2013, 11:03#3
Beeno The players I left out from the above - who are still in the Springbok squad of 36 players - are those I regarded as not up to standard. I think that Morne made all the wrong decisions on Saturday - kicking balls into touch for instance and handing over possession to the Stormers - who dominated the Bulls forwards. His linking with the backline was ineffective and on par with what happened last year. The Bulls backline became more effective after Steyn was benched even with a player that normally plays at fullback and not at flyhalf. Morne's only asset is his goal kicking - otherwise he is a very average flyhalf at best and he is going to prove just that in the coming RC. If like last year his goal kicking collapsed in the RC - he should be sent to France asap and not be kept in the squad at all.
SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
15 Jul 2013, 12:37
#4
15 Jul 2013, 12:37#4

Its a opinion based site Dictator Mike  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 13:04
#5
15 Jul 2013, 13:04#5
Spooony I am entitled to my opinion - am I not? I do not dictate anything - just stating my opinion. You are free to differ and point out why you differ.
SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
15 Jul 2013, 13:24
#6
15 Jul 2013, 13:24#6
You are so easy Mike Emotions should be left at home not brought on the Internet. You will get trolled And the thread title seems more like a tantrum from a dictator than opinion. If you had power it would have been a threat. Luckily you don't have yet
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
15 Jul 2013, 13:34
#7
15 Jul 2013, 13:34#7

Ou Maaik, why don't you just do what some of us do with your opinions? Ignore them. After all, you have said it yourself:

 

clevermike

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5858
RE: I am sick and Tired of the contributors to this Site who always
July 15, 2013, 11:04:36

Spooony

I am entitled to my opinion - am I not? I do not dictate anything - just stating my opinion. You are free to differ and point out why you differ.

 

 

Does the same not apply to the rest of us as well?

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
15 Jul 2013, 13:36
#8
15 Jul 2013, 13:36#8

mike i dont get why you hate morne so much. you keep harping on and on about him as if he is the worst player in history. i did actually watch the bools game and he was one of the better players. if your going to shit on someone because he makes a mistake then you will have to honestly say that EVERY player is shit. even in the 49-0 thrashing of the Boks larkham dropped a few balls and made a few bad decisions. if i was going to take your approach i would be saying he was a stupid prick and we should carry out of the stadium and execute him. a little perspective mate and stay calm for gods sake! haha. sometimes you just have to see the value that a player has isnt that what you lot are saying withy willie even though he makes tons of really amateur mistakes in every game? but you want him for what he brings well its the same thing with all players there isnt a perfect player that HAS to be chosen but a coach just has to weigh up the pros and cons and try get the best group together that fit. morne has done things nasty booter himself never could do and that other saffers will never do either. give him some credit mate, you dont have to like him just be a little more honest. i know you hate the sharks and bools but just take a sec to rethink some of this stuff, not trying to rag on you just saying.

SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
15 Jul 2013, 13:41
#9
15 Jul 2013, 13:41#9

Mike I know in this country coaches reads the papaer and play people that most of the public agree to. Don't worry no coach would read the garbage on hear so we won't see guys who performed 4 years ago mentioned here

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 13:55
#10
15 Jul 2013, 13:55#10
Ihi I do not hate any players - I just don't like to see bad performances on international level. We by now knows exactly what Morne Steyn brings to the international game and so do all opposing teams. That makes it very easy to make counter-measures like the Stormers did on Saturday. Morne a number of times on Saturday kicked balls away whilst in the Stormers half and try and make ground that way - the end result was handing over possession to the opposition. That to my mind is a wicked way of playing the game. I would rather have a player not inclined to kick aimlessly for the sake of kicking unless you are sure of retaining possession subsequently or that counter-attacks would not result - that is to my mind a major deficiency in Morne's game. I also said that his main contribution always was his kicking at goal. Last year it deserted him completely when in tight situations - and if it happens again this year he should be sent to France sooner than happened last year when he was dropped from the team far too late in the competition.
SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
15 Jul 2013, 14:01
#11
15 Jul 2013, 14:01#11

Mike

 

Please understand SA demographics creates a unique opportunity. Teams are setup to fit their homebase which they have for over a century.

 

The Bulls are setup and tactically tuned to be effective at 3 places. Loftus, Bloemfontein and Johburg. At Sea Level teams can pretty much ran them off their feet without a worry of fatique

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
15 Jul 2013, 14:03
#12
15 Jul 2013, 14:03#12

mike everyone knows what everyone brings. rugby is about forcing your hand far mpore than trying to reinvent the wheel. its an arm wrestle. yeah mornes kicking was crap last year and even i was calling for goosen or lambie to step in but the reality is that nobody is cutting the mustard at test level in place of him! that kind of tells you something. you guys have had lambie, pienaar, goosen, jantjies, frans, at 10 and morne has bettered all of them consistently. and how can a 10 play the ball if his centres are having a nightmare and his pack is being smashed up? he made alot of nice touches with the boot and did what he could yeah there were mistakes but again i say some perspective mate.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 14:07
#13
15 Jul 2013, 14:07#13
Ihi Nice objective posting - I appreciate your level-headedness in this case.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 16:35
#14
15 Jul 2013, 16:35#14
Saffex Have a look at this thread too, please. Any comments?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jul 2013, 16:58
#15
15 Jul 2013, 16:58#15
Everybody knows what Morne brings? Hell everybod knows what Bok rugby brings, but when we do it right.....like in 2009....they can't do anything about it. There are two philosophies .....adapting to the opponents strength....or crushing them with your strengths. The Boks have always done the latter at their best. - As for Morne....who the hell would you replace him with at this stage, Lambie? For the record the Bools were not beaten at flyhalf.....their maul was removed. And their centres were outplayed.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 17:16
#16
15 Jul 2013, 17:16#16
Mozart With respect - please read the thread. This is not what happened in 2009 - it is the present and future scenario this thread is about. Since 2009 there has been numerous law changes - all of them aimed at improving rugby as a running game and cutting out some crushing ideas that was applicable in 2009. Unless we can adapt to those changes - we have no chance in future rugby compeitions. As to Morne Steyn - he was abysmal in 2012 and I have seen signs of return to his poor form of that year. I do not think his change is necessary immediately - elsewhere I said if his goal kicking form - really his only asset - deteriorates to what it was last year - he should not be allowed to ruin the chances of SA - like he did last year. I would rather prefer a player like Goosen and Lambie than Steyn in the team - if he fails in his goal kicking. As to other components of his game - he was poor again on Saturday - kicking balls away aimlessly in the Stormers half of the field - handing over possession to the Stomers - same as he did last year in the tests. He was standing back a mile in the pocket again - something I thought he cut out earlier this year. If he repeats that as well - more of a reason to get rid of him.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jul 2013, 17:19
#17
15 Jul 2013, 17:19#17
So you would rather have Lambie in the team than Morne. Who is your kicker?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 17:27
#18
15 Jul 2013, 17:27#18
Mozart I thought you could read English - but seems to be wrong. Lambie in tests last year missed no kicks at goal - Steyn ended up missing 80% of his kicks. Lambie this year had two off games at kicking at goal and in the last game had an injury problem as well - so I do not like you write off players because of one poor goal kicking game. I said if Steyn start missing kicks in tests again - he should be given his marching orders earlier than happened last year - when his poor performances ruined the chances of the Springboks in the RC.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jul 2013, 17:32
#19
15 Jul 2013, 17:32#19
But you were willing to write Morne off on his goal kicking? In how many RC games 2....3? Lambie has been kicking poorly for more games than that. How do you square your position OOM.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 17:39
#20
15 Jul 2013, 17:39#20
Mozart More games with poor kicking - I know about the one against the Rebels - when he was replaced early and the one against the Bulls. For he rest his kicking was on par with that of Steyn. Name the games and we can discuss the issue again - vague statements do not help - it merely represents unfounded rubbish. Incidentally Lambie came on from the bench in the Samoa test and converted two tries - after Morne missed a sitter.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
15 Jul 2013, 17:54
#21
15 Jul 2013, 17:54#21

 

Shows you how different sports dictate selection practices.

 

You have an out of form Graeme Smith as an example yet he's retained for an eternity.

 

Loyalty toward them is key it seems ... even to the detriment of the team.

 

You have an out of form Habana ... yet he's kept till his form returns.

 

Lambie showed his magic last season while Morne struggles ... Lambie takes the 10 jersery and now that he's struggling a little, suddenly Morne's back in the picture.

 

How come??

 

Lambie is the better overall rugby player. One would think a good coach would stand by him and get him through this tough patch.

 

I guess if he had a "Bools" contract his spot at 10 would have been secure.

 

I agree with you Mike ... to a point. The likes of Frans Steyn who once upon a Christmas had a good period in his rugby career has not shown any form for many a year and should not be considered at all. One can only endure this blindering fool for so long.

 

2007 was a long time ago.

 

Reputation should not be considered in selection yet one should also show a little loyalty.

 

It's a toughie.

 

 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
15 Jul 2013, 17:56
#22
15 Jul 2013, 17:56#22

How does this work? We have to forget about the past, but we are not allowed to forget how Steyn played................... in the past, i.e. a year ago. Why? Because Mike dictates.

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
15 Jul 2013, 20:09
#23
15 Jul 2013, 20:09#23

Morne has had one game all year in the S15 where his kicking percentage was below 75%. Way back in Round 3 when he was 5 from 8 for 63%

 

Lambie under 75% this year:

 

Round 6 - 2 from 6 - 33%

Round 11 - 4 from 6 - 66%

Round 14 - 5 from 7 - 71%

Round 18 - 3 from 8 - 38%

Round 19 - 3 from 7 - 43%

 

There is no question Morne has been the best kicker. In Test matches even a couple missed shots at goal can change the character of the game immensely. For the Bok game plan to work there has to be a high percentage goal kicker - no other way - last year proved that conclusively.  Of most concern is Lambie's performances in Round 6, 18 and 19 where he fell off the wagon. Can't have that in a Test match - how many missed kicks before it is determined he is having an off day? 

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Jul 2013, 21:11
#24
15 Jul 2013, 21:11#24
As a US lawyer would say, those facts are dispositive. To me an equal concern has been Lambie's lack of decisiveness at 10.....at times he seemed in two minds. And it's been trending worse as the S15 has progressed. Butch actually added a lot (too much some might say) ....but at least his errors were errors of commission.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Jul 2013, 21:35
#25
15 Jul 2013, 21:35#25
I am not going to respond to the rubbish punted by Mozart other than to say when a flyhalf hesitates as what to do with the ball he is caught in possession and that never happened. Nice to make wild statements - not so nice to have nothing to prove as to those wild statements. Anyway - lets accept the verdict of Mozart - namely that a flyhalf's only role is kicking at goal - he can bugger up completely for the rest of the game. Aimless kicking - standing meters too deep in the pocket - thus killing the backline - all in order provided his goal kicking is accurate.
— END OF THREAD —

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