Injurries to Willemse and Muller du Plessis

The Juniors have lost two of their best players in the match against Ireland yesterday.   Willemse will be out for 4 to 6 weeks and will not ne available for the Stormers when Super Rugby restarts after the June tests -while Muller du Plessis - who scored the Juniors second try - will be out of action for two to four weeks. 

I am delighted that Willemse will be back to play before the start of the Rugby Championship.   Both Jantjies and Du Preez was dismally poor on Saturday and cannot be allowed to continue as back-up flyhalfs and Fat Fransie is not a flyhalfs backside - worse than Jantjies and Du Preez combned.   Neither of Jantjies and Du Preez .m to be able to ever play on test level.

It would be disaster if Pollard gets injured during the tests against England - and one can only hope he remains fit to play.          

Willemse is not ready for test rugby yet. He needs to dominate Pollard and Jantjies in local SuperRugby derbies before this happens.  

He needs to be in the Bok squad, then on the bench. Then when he plays for the Boks, he needs to outperform the starting player to earn his place.

I would rather play an older player in the meantime, and hopefully, Willemse will be a starting option next year.

Willemse has flash, but he has not yet shown complete ability yet. 

Who should be the older player - as it is obvious that Fat Fransie is not an option and both Du Preez and Jantjies are not test standard players and never will be.

In my opinion I think Pollard should be the flyhalf with Willemse on the bench/

Any other suggestion? .   

So you're gonna judge Du Preez on 7 minutes of International rugby and the charge down try??

Tell us how objective you are again.

Xavi

You should admit it was a disastrous 7 minutes costing the SA team the game - it was in fact two such charge downs within a minute from each other.    However,I am not sure about Du Preez - he made a mistake  in Super Rugby games and turned into a shell - which indicates that he is not really test material/   That happened a number of times in Super rugby games - the last time against the Chiefs - even the commentators mentioned it later in the game.

Shitbrain is a treat a minute - I express doubts about the two chrgedowns  within about a minute apart and he found an excuse for Du Preez.   Fact it was because of the second chargedown that I gave up on him.   Shitb rain did not watch the game and obviously did not know about the first chargedown -so maybe that is an excuse for him   

He turned into a shell? That's quite a trick.

@Xavi

Robs only been a pro for a short while. I'm reserving judgement but my feeling is that he's got serious pedigree.

One has to love the way Mike slates Jantjies who played reasonably well considering the make up of the team and with a 9 he's never received from before. 

With Faf in the Bok mix it's going to be hard to give Pollard a start ahead of Jantjies. 

On long term form Janthies is far and away the front runner. On seasonal form...Jantjies again. On recent short term form Pollard and Jantjies are close.

There is only one argument against Jantjies and that's his cracking under pressure. 

As far as I can tell, that rep comes from a Currie cup game some years ago and then from the SR final two years back where the Lions played away from home in horribly muddy conditions.

It's similar to the myth of Jake White at the Sharks. Mike is always saying how carp he was there. But then, the Sharks were our best team that year. 

I guess if you say something enough times then it becomes a sort of truth...to yourself anyway.

Jantjies string(serious roll of rolls) of dominant performances over ALL other SA 10s for three years now means nothing to the objective Mike. 

Do we have another 10 who has created more tries in the last ten years? I don't know the answer but I'll guess that we don't.

Any other 10 with a win percentage as high as his? 

Any other 10 who has seen off the best NZ have had to offer?

Out on a limb here and totally against the grain but I'd say it's time the guy gets his respect and the gameplan was built around how he wants to play. 

He's our playmaker and the way he wants to play works. It's not debatable and it's not luck. 

Pollard only has limited rep and recent "so so" form going for him. 

Hardly something I'd pin my hopes on.

Another lie shitbrain - are you not ashamed of being such a liar?   

Another lie shitbrain - are you not ashamed of being such a liar?   

I was merely stating that Jones knows more about rugby than you shitbrain/  

I was merely stating that Jones knows more about rugby than you shitbrain/  

I was merely stating that Jones knows more about rugby than you shitbrain/  

I was merely stating that Jones knows more about rugby than you shitbrain/  

Plum, Jantjies is a very good player when he his forwards are dominant. His problems start when his forwards are under pressure and/or he has less time on the ball. It is at this point that he seems to implode. In tests he has had one or two decent games, but the bottom line is, test rugby invariably offers the flyhalf less time to make decisions, and I think it is that split second less time that he has that makes him falter. And before anyone has a go at me let me state the obvious, all 10's are under more pressure behind a pack that is not dominant, but the good 10's are able to absorb that pressure and still make the right decisions. Unfortunately, Jantjies is not among them. In other words, he has the ability, but he lacks the mental strength when it really counts. Hence his poor performances in finals and in the majority of his test rugby.  

plum

Jantjies under Ackerman played an entirely different game than he does at present.   Unlike More Steyn he used to attack the gain line with some success,   However, the past year he developed a negative namely to -

*   attack the gain line rarely with a singular lack of success because he is not physical enough to do so and unfortunately make poor decisions on when and were to attack such; or

*   running a few steps towards the player he intends to pass the ball to.

In my nastier comments I call it "crabbing sideways".  What it does is very detrimental - since it neutralizes the backline as the recipient has the defenders on top of him by the time he received the Jantjies pop passes.   It happened regularly in the case of the Lions - but was particularly bad on Saturday. 

The other problem was that his kicking game on Saturday was poor and even the newspapers rate that his performance on Saturday as sub-par. 

The problem is that Jantjies on test level will never really succeed because of the problem bluebok outlined above.   

On the whole the situation is that Jantjies is not player that could make the step up to test level where he has to act quicker and the flyhalf must make quicker decisions.    We must go back to his test career and see how effective he really was.  The answer is that he started off badly in 2012 and was consequently never again played by Meyer while he was in charge.

Then along came Coetzee and his first choice flyhalf was Lambie - who got injured and never played again for the Springboks.  Coetzee then went to Jantjies who failed as well and ended up with Morne Steyn - who was rather worse.   Back to Jantjies and that did not work out well either.   A rather spotty record on test level making it a longish history of not making the grade on that level.

Jantjies is a confidence player and seems to settle quickly when he has familiar players (8, 9 & 12) around him.

He has a great deal of respect for his captain, Warren Whiteley and I'm willing to bet that if Whiteley was the Bok capt, Jantjies would have a cracker.

Yes ... I am suggesting ... 8 Whiteley, 9 Faf and 12. Janse van Rensburg would bring the best out in him.

Throw Jaco Kriel in at 6, Marx in at 2 and Mostert in at 5, and Jantjies will dominate the world.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

I hear you Blou, but let's try something...

Use Bauden and demand that he only kick deep.

Use Steyn and demand that he take the ball to the line.

Use Rob Du Preez and demand slight of hand.

Use any 10 and demand that he do the opposite of what he is good at and he will look like a clown.

For me Bauden is a wonderful 10. He has a brilliant attacking mind and he knows how to do unlock any defense. 

The question is, how did he do against the Lions the last few years?

Not so great. 

The only things a 10 can do when his forwards are being dominated is a) kick to touch and give the opposition the ball back or b) try to create opportunities against the run of play.

If he does a) he is only momentarily relieving pressure and if he does b) then he has a small chance of succeeding with a bigger chance of failing and worsening the situation.

It's quite simple. Forwards need to do their jobs. It's starts there and if parity doesn't exist up front you won't win regardless of who your 10 is.

Jantjies has lead the Lions away from home in difficult conditions more than anyone else available to us. And he has been consistent in doing so.

So the argument against Jantjies is "if the rest of the team is failing then he will fail too."

For me that is overly harsh. 

And it could easily be countered by saying that if the rest if the team are doing their jobs then he will dominate any 10 in the world.

I'd love for another 10 to take over from him but right now there just is not a a single more deserving candidate.

My heart says Pollard but my mind screams Jantjies. 

My that my mind should be trusted. It's devious as he'll and f aulty at the best of times :):):)

My only conclusion as to the above is - play Jantjies in tests at 10 and be prepared to neutralize totally the backline and lose the tests he plays in.  Proven fact from the past when he played at 10 for the Springboks.

I can remember a Super Rugby game in the play-offs where Boshoff played at 10 - I think it was against the Crusaders in 2016 -  which was easily won by the Lions.  Since then the Lions never won a match against the Crusaders with Jantjies at flyhalf.  typical example as to what happens when he is under pressure - and he will always be under pressure in test s irrespective of which players he is familiar with.     

@ Mike

Ok, so Mike...name me a player in the last two years who has covered himself in glory? 

Eben and Marx come to mind. Nobody else. Not s single back line player, not the 9, not the wingers and certainly not any 15.

So, using your very own criteria you have to exclude everyone else who played for the Boks under Coetzee.

Yet in your suggested team we see ample players who were poor under Coetzee.

At some point you are going have to try and be logical about this.

How on earth you punt De Allende and not Jantjies is a complete mystery. 

"play Jantjies in tests at 10 and be prepared to neutralize totally the backline and lose the tests he plays in"

This is pure nonsense. He has made more tries than ANY OTHER TEN IN SA!!! You don't agree? Ok, well name the 10 who made more tries over the last three years?

Name the SA ten who performed well behind a retreating forward pack and managed to beat the Lions or anyone else under said conditions?

Are you aware of how many tries the Lions have scored in SR since 2015? Without checking any stats and just operating from memory i'd be willing to bet that it's at least twice as much as any other SA team and right up there with the best NZ teams and better than the rest.

Clearly Jantjies is a detriment to any team he plays for.

Nobody likes Jantjies, i get it, but until you can provide stats or clear evidence as to why anyone else is more deserving then all you are doing is giving an unsubstantiated and biased opinion.

If Pollard, Du Preez or Willemse had Jantjie's record we'd all be screaming from the wall how there is no other choice for Bok ten.

So Mike, enough opinions, lets look at the numbers. Lets look at win ratios, tries made, tries scored and tee success. 

Lets prove that Jantjies is not the man for the job.

You might at some point have to get over your dislike for his hairstyle, tattoos and general perceived demeanour and just accept that he is still the best we have...by a long distance. 

Or we can do as you always say you don't, and insert a 10 purely on reputation and hope while ignoring all evidence.

@ CC

I think it's been too long since Mike did anything competitive and thus doesn't quite understand the value of playing to one's strengths both as an individual and as a team.

I hope Rassie picks Jantjies to start with Faf on Saturday.

What i like about Faf is that he is going to keep the lazy forwards honest. Something Ross Cronje is not able to do any more. That alone is going to be a big advantage for Jantjies.

With Cois there, i think we are going to see a different Bok team this year because my guess is that Rassie will have given him a mandate to transplanting the Lions attacking play into the Boks.

I'm no great Kolisi fan but if he is going to help clear rucks more quickly then i think he won't be the detriment to the team that everyone thinks...defensive frailties aside. Hopefully Akker gets to make an impact when steroid boy inevitably gets subbed early in the second half. And if Kwagga comes on later he'll only help to add to England's fatigue woes.

The first game is at altitude and the smart money is going to be on running a tired England off their feet and winning the all important first game. 

Hopefully Willie starts at 15 because Jones is going to have his team kick the hell out of the ball to the slow the game down and play from set piece. 

My guess is that we are going to see the Boks picking up the pace while England will slow the game down and won't commit to rucks but instead try to target specific moments for turnovers.

Or maybe Jone's will try give it all in the first 30 and try to get a lead that England can sit on in second half. 

Should be interesting. 

CC

I cannot see how you miss the bnegatoves in Jantjies performances this year and to try and say he dud better in previous years is a farce - you have to look at the present and what he did this year in Super Rugby.   

As I clearly stated Jantjies was NEVER successful at test level - he was in fact poor.   He has had a good record for the Lions previously - but that petered out as well this year.   He may be a confidence player - but that confidence is sadly lacking this year.

As to De Allende he hardly played any rugby in 2016 and 2017 - he was injured a number of times.  When he did play this year in Super Rugby hews streets ahead of thither inside centers in SA and the way he humiliated SB Williams in the Blues game was telling.   Remember the ame Blues game played the Lions a week earlier and the Lions lost the game.

In any event I prefer to support players who performed this year and that is where Jantjies failed and De Allende succeeded.  Whether you like it or not - that was what actually happened.    However, the Lion problem would disappear if they have a proper flyhalf and the backline would again become matchwinners  - which due to Janjties did not happen thus far this year.     .     

Jantjies must be given strict instruction to keep the ball in hand.

His tactical kicks must be limited to grubbers, kick passes and for touch only.

We do not have Marx, Whiteley, Kriel and Janse van Rensburg (Lions) available for the coming test ... instead we have Bongi, Vermeulen, Kolisi and De Allende (bottom log Stormers) in the mix. That changes everything.

I think Jantjies will be on the bench with Pollard starting.

We will more than likely have Beast, Bongi and Trevor as our starting front row ... Snyman and Mostert at lock ... with the three stooges as our back 3.

This is not going to be a pleasant test match to watch.

I am expecting the Poms to run 50 past us. I just hope we get at least one penalty through the posts.

Rassie should contact Coetzee urgently and get his excuses prepared for the post match interview.

His bubble is about to be burst.

CC

50 is very, very rich.   Your assessment of players is skewed a bit by provincialism.   I think we need a lock of substance toad to Du Toit and we hae two top class locks not playing at present - Etzebeth and Schickerling - with another in De Jager out for the year.   Marx is a major problem absentee as well.