Interesting selections - French Top 14

 Goosen stats for the Racing Metro game was as follows :-
Goosen1/0105/7/117812010/10/010/0
Goosen started at 15 - I am noit sure whether he remained at 15 throughout the game or move to 10 when S exton was subbed at minute 24.   I know he took over the goalkicking duties before S exton was subbed.   Has anyone seen this match? Please clarify what happened.
As stated earlier Meyer must be intrested at Goosen being the back up of both the Springbok full back and flyhalf and Goosen gave him a lot to think about in the game yesterday.   
   

 biltongbek
I think that is the line of thinking of Meyer.  Add then 3 centers and three wings and we have 14 - leqavibng a toal of 17 orr 18 places for forwards.   I read the squad will comprise of 32 players.  

If it is 18 players - provision will be made for the following:-
3 hookers, 6 props, 4 loosies and 4 locks - some of the locks and loosies to be able to play in alternate positions.    

 CJ Stander had another good game for Minster this following is two previous games where he made over 100 carries.

Any reason why there was no mention of the "normal situation" at Toulon as well? Was it because that would effectively have meant admitting that the "report" of last week was a load of BS? I am talking about the one trying to create the impression that the importance of Bakkies, Juan Smith and Habana were on the decline and with little contribution, etc, which was why Bakkies and Juan were playing off the bench.

I can remember my remarks, that Toulon did not start with their best forwards against Ulster, immediately being rubbished.

Both Botha and Smith (well as Ali Williams) were back in the starting line-up against Grenoble today, as predicted. All three of Botha, Smith and Habana scored tries. Botha was replaced after 52' as expected with Juan and Habana playing the full 80'. Toulon (log leaders) ran in nine tries against Grenoble (7th on the log).

I would say that that is slightly better than Racing Metro's loss against Oyonax, who are second from the bottom of the log at no 13 . Goosen remained at 15 when S exton was subbed. S exton was subbed by Benjamin Dambielle who is RM's second flyhalf behind S exton. Looks like RM share HM's view that Goosen is a back-up fullback, rather than a flyhalf. I can remember a certain poster who had the same view and he was slated like there was no tomorrow.

  Ceradyne
This threat was started yesterday - when all the teams bar Toulon and Grenoble played.  That is why three is no reference to the Toulon  game.
However, insofar as Juan Smith is concerned - he is not in teh Springbok squad.  bakkies Botha is - but he was so hoplessly poor  in the tests he played in since last year - he is for me not of any nterest insofar as the Springbok team is concerned.
Goosen has played at full back for the first time this wewekend - nd he did excptionally well - even if you want to have a seizure about that one.   As perr normal you are talking KAK again.    Goosen started at 15 and did extremely well in that position if the stats are anything to go by..  When  S exton had too be replaced it would be lunacy to move Goosen to flyhalf and put Dambelle in as full back.   But lunacy is your staock in trade - hence your statement as above.  
Just a question - the game as not on SA television - and I stated that I did not see the game.    Why was Sextion replaced as goal kicker before he was finally replaced  at halftime - did he miss any kciks at goal?
Now for the other dud in the Springbok squad.   I see that Morne Steyn came on from the ebnch fairly early in the seond half - but he did not replace Plisson and the yougs ser also retained the goal kicking reposnsibility.   I assume he had his nomal dud game?

Goosen has played at full back for the first time this wewekend - nd he did excptionally well - even if you want to have a seizure about that one.   As perr normal you are talking KAK again.    Goosen started at 15 and did extremely well in that position if the stats are anything to go by..  When  S exton had too be replaced it would be lunacy to move Goosen to flyhalf and put Dambelle in as full back.   But lunacy is your staock in trade - hence your statement as above.  
I am struggling to understand what you are trying to say, due to your poor grammar but I will take a shot at it nonetheless. Goosen did not play fullback for the first time this weekend. He was played there (by RM) before. I did not have a seizure either. I only said that RM probably also see him as a fullback/back-up fullback. That was all I said. Why don''t you rather argue that point, instead of coming up with the seizure BS?

How do you know that he did extremely well, even if you have not seen the game? I have questioned you on this before and you avoided the question. You have said, on many occasions, that you only use stats to confirm your own observations during games. If that is true, then you cannot really pay attention to them now, can you? Particularly not to decide whether he had played extremely well or not. If you do want to claim that you can judge his game by looking at stats only, then you have to concede when you are given stats about games others haven't seen.

Talking about seizures. You are actually looking like having a seizure about my remarks about Goosen at fullback. You call my remark about Goosen not moving to flyhalf lunacy, yet you were actually the one who first considered whether he was moved moved to flyhalf in place of S exton. Have you forgotten what you said? Let me remind you. "Goosen started at 15 - I am noit sure whether he remained at 15 throughout the game or move to 10 when S exton was subbed at minute 24." I merely confirmed that he remained at 15. You were the lunatic. Not me.

Just a question - the game as not on SA television - and I stated that I did not see the game.    Why was [removed]tion replaced as goal kicker before he was finally replaced  at halftime - did he miss any kciks at goal?

As I said, I have no idea. I have not seen the game either and cannot comment about it.

Now for the other dud in the Springbok squad.   I see that Morne Steyn came on from the ebnch fairly early in the seond half - but he did not replace Plisson and the yougsser also retained the goal kicking reposnsibility.   I assume he had his nomal dud game?

I have told you before that I am not too interested in wht Stade Francais do. I only respond to your BS as and when it appears. I have also told you before how Stade Francais rotate and use Steyn and Plisson. I once gave yo a comprehensive report on how they were used and you rubbished it. Stade Francais often end up with both Plisson and Steyn on the field. Remember this spreadsheet?

Ceradunce 
That spreadsheet is misleading - why did it only start at week 13?
F irst of all - I looked at the stats and made my assumption from that information.    Any player with tht kind of stats is very near to player of the match.  
You say that Racing metro sees him as full back - yet out of the last 4 matches he played two at flyhalf and one came on as back up flyhalf.   He enver before started at full back - he may have come from the ebnch at full back or even on the wing - as happened once. 
You are always trying to enhance the imageoiof Morne Steyn -  yet he is a player that is really the back-up flyhalf for Stade Francais, which according to recent newspaper reports the club tried to get rid of.   But you denigration of Goosen continues unabated.  
S o lets accept that Goosen at present is the back up flyhalf as long as S exton is around - the latter is one of the top flyhalfs in world rugby today - so it is natural to accept that Goosen will be his back-up.   However, it is evident from the three games he started for Racing Metrro recently - that it is not wise t0 start without him and that he consequently moved to full back to make sure he gets maximum game time.    
This was Goosen lst game for Racing Metro - since he would have joined the Springbok squad today.  We would vpconsequently have to wait until early December to see what Racing metro is going to do in future insofar as Goosen is concerned.   
   

 "That spreadsheet is misleading - why did it only start at week 13?"
Is that dementia or Alzheimers kicking in? I have explained it before and for the sake of others who have not seen it I will repeat it. At the time you were arguing that Morne Steyn (MS) has started more for Stade Francais than Jules Plisson (JP) when they were both available. I checked and made a mistake. I left out two rounds prior to round 13. Fact was that in the two rounds that I did not mention in that spreadsheet, MS started one and JP started one meaning that it had no effect on who started the most games. What that spreadsheet clearly indicated is that you were BS'ing when you said that JP started more games when they were both available. 
The other little matter that it clearly shows is that it confirms what I have been telling you for months. Even though they were technically rotated, they quite often both ended up playing in the same game at the same time. JP only replaced MS form the bench on two occasions in the entire season. That was once in one of the two games that I missed on the spreadsheet and the game in round 16 in Jan. Similarly MS replaced JP twice, i.e. in one of the two games not on the spreadsheet and the game in round 13 in Nov 2013. 
Hope it dawned on you this time around. Not that I have much hope though, as I suspect that we might find ourselves going through the exact same exercise again some time.
QED.

 Ceradyne how would you know how well Goosen has played at flyhalf for RM, you don't watch the matches. I and the otherhand have and he has done better there than Sexton. The reason Goosen wasn't moved to flyhalf is because they didn't have anyone who could play fullback.

 Shezza
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 1367RE: Interesting selections - French Top 14
November 03, 2014, 01:34:46 Ceradyne how would you know how well Goosen has played at flyhalf for RM, you don't watch the matches. I and the otherhand have and he has done better there than [removed]ton. The reason Goosen wasn't moved to flyhalf is because they didn't have anyone who could play fullback.

Wake up sunshine. Where and when have I made a judgement on how well Goosen has played? 
In addition, who said that they do not have anybody else who could play fullback? Have you done yourself a favour and had a look at the RM players or is your first option to jump to the defence of your bumbling buddy? Who replaced S exton? Wasn't it Benjamin Dambielle? This Benjamin Dambielle?:http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/player/121328.html
Full name Benjamin DambielleBorn July 15, 1985Current age 29 years 111 daysMajor teams La Rochelle, Racing MetroPosition Fullback, Fly-half, Scrum-halfHeight 1.83 mWeight 83 kg

 Stop making out that RM don't see Goosen as a good enough Flyhalf then. 
JP Pietersen also played at fullback early in his career but now he isn't considered there anymore, same case for Dambielle who hasn't played there for RM (He probably would play there if Dulin and Goosen were injured and there was no other option). 

 Ceradunce
The dunce is back.  Lets face facts - Morne was not available in 9 of the 12 games.  The rest he was and in the rest he  started once for Stade Francais in the 4 remaining games.   In the other case as from 14 January through to the end of February Plisson was in the French squad for the six nations.  So he was not available - but you used him as being available - which obviously remove him from the scene.   The whole schedule is one-sided crap at best.   When Morne was not available the games were not included in the schedule - when Plisson was not available the games were included in the schedule.   That was crap in capital letters. 
Of the 14 games you listed - Plisson was not vailable for 4 games and started in 6 games.    So in the 13 games when both were avaialble the total count is as follows:-
Plisson -  started  in 9 games Morne   - started in  4 games
Go and check your records again before you get caught out again.   That is also a reflection of the crap about rotation.  
As to your Dambelle story - he is the one player that is really the back up player for Racing Metro.   Goosen was injured in June and for the August and early September matches was not available for Racing Metro.   He was then phased in from the bench and in the most resent games he started twice for Racing Metro - was on the bench for one game and then started at full back    You turned the whole saga into him being the back up flyhalf for Racing Metro.   As kak praat 'n siekte is - is Ceradunce baie siek.      
  
           

 

Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1368 RE: Interesting selections - French Top 14
November 03, 2014, 03:53:42  Stop making out that RM don't see Goosen as a good enough Flyhalf then. 
JP Pietersen also played at fullback early in his career but now he isn't considered there anymore, same case for Dambielle who hasn't played there for RM (He probably would play there if Dulin and Goosen were injured and there was no other option). 
You haven't replied to the previous question, so I guess that you are noyt going to answer this one either but I will give it a go. Where and when did I say that RM do not regard Goosen as a good enough flyhalf?

When you jump, try not to jump to conclusions.

 "The dunce is back.  Lets face facts - Morne was not available in 9 of the 12 games.  The rest he was and in the rest he  started once for Stade Francais in the 4 remaining games.   In the other case as from 14 January through to the end of February Plisson was in the French squad for the six nations.  So he was not available - but you used him as being available - which obviously remove him from the scene.   The whole schedule is one-sided crap at best.   When Morne was not available the games were not included in the schedule - when Plisson was not available the games were included in the schedule.   That was crap in capital letters. "


BS. I have listed all the games that both, MS and JP were available, bar two. Those were prior to round thirteen and of those two, they both started one game each, so that makes it back to square one. As can be seen from the spreadsheet, which is not misleading, JP was not available for three rounds, i.e. rounds no 18 (8 Feb), 19 (15 Feb) and 20 (22 Feb). He was back for duty on 28 Feb for round no 21. In that game, he was on the bench with MS starting. He did not replace MS in that game either. He replaced Richard Kingi. MS played the full game.

The only two times that JP replaced MS in a game was in the one game prior to round  13 and in round 16. Coincidently, MS also only replaced JP on two occasions, i.e. one game prior to round 13 and the in round 13 against Toulon. So, as far as replacing one another on the field it comes down to two games each.

As from round 13 onwards, they were both available for 11 rounds, i.e. rounds no 13, 14, 16 and 17. The 6N was during rounds no 18, 19 and 20 which I clearly marked. Look again, you blithering idiot. You will see that I have said "JP at 6N. MS not subbed)". They were again both available for rounds no 21 through 26.


"Of the 14 games you listed - Plisson was not vailable for 4 games and started in 6 games.    So in the 13 games when both were avaialble the total count is as follows:-
Plisson -  started  in 9 games Morne   - started in  4 games"

Wrong. JP was away for three games. That means that they have both been available for 11 games plus the two that is not on the spreadsheet, which makes it 13 games in total. Of those 13, Plisson started in 7 games and Steyn started in 5 but here is the difference that you keep on ignoring. In four of those games it was a straight swap between the two. MS replacing JP twice and JP replacing MS twice. But, and this is the crux. In four of the games that MS started, he played for the full 80 minutes with JP Plisson replacing other players. MS only replaced other playes twice.

When you balance things out, you will notice that (apart from the "6N rounds") MS played 5 full 80 minute games. JP played 5 full 80 minute games. They both subbed each other twice. JP played three games with Steyn not on the field at all (rounds 15, 22 and 24) and MS played three games (during the 6N) with JP not on the field at all.

And that, my friend, indicates that they were perfectly balanced out and that SF followed a rotational policy with their two fly halves and that they did share the fly half duties between the two. 

That was what I tried to show to you right from the start of this argument. I do not have any hope that you would let it rest now and I am expecting another barrage of BS in due course.


PS. The Gambielle story. Goosen was out for one week only. He was taken off after a shocking display, costing his team a try and a loss. He was not phased in, he was the back-up for S exton on the bench while he recovered from his broken jaw. I did not turn it into him being a back-up fullback. I said that they probably see him as a back-up fullback. The reason I said that is because they have used him at 15 from the bench before and on this occasion they used him at the back again and retained him there when Dambielle came on for S exton. In all honesty, I would not be surprised if Goosen goes on and be a great success, for RM, at fullback because I am also of the opinion that he could be a better fullback than a flyhalf.

 Ceradyne
Can I answer that question on behalf of Chezza?  When you said that  Goosen isthe Racing Metro Reject - which happened before Goosen came back from injury and when he was initially selected to come of the bench -ie before he was selected as starting fyhalf.    

 That was a tongue in cheek thing and a joke, targeted at your Stade Francais reject BS, poepol. Geez, I was trusting that you would have seen that and I truly did not expecting you still be sulking over that. Talk about being a pedantic old sourp*ss.

 Ceradunce
Plisson was called to a training camp for the French national team as from 14 January 2014.  it is extremely unlikely that Plison would start in matches between then and the end of February 2014 - even should the squad members have been available to play for t heir clubs.   In that period you gave Plisson as being on the bench for Stade Francais twice and those two occassions it is not really expected from him to start for the club.    if he was not away on national duty - he same would have happened as happened in the last five matches on your schedule - where Morne only started ONCE.   
My advice - when I sa something tongue in cheek - I add simileys to the comment.  Do the same and wyou will notbe quoted as being serious.      

 Strange that Plisson was at a French training camp from 14 January and wasn't available to play for SF yet he did play for them against Castres on 24 January. What does that have to do with the numbers in any case, or are you still not man enough to admit that you were bullsh!tting? Are you saying that I lied when I said that Plisson was avaliable for his club and on the bench, the week prior to the 6N and the week thereafter, i.e. 24 Jan and 28 Feb? That is your style. Not mine.

Paris 32 - 6 Castres

Mi-temps: 12 - 6

17ème journée - 24 janvier 2014, Stade Jean Bouin

Première annonce officielle des résultats


Drop Pén. Trans. Essai Joueur




Hendrik Van der merwe 1



Remi Bonfils 2



David Attoub 3



Anton Van zyl 4



Gerhard Mostert 5



Scott Lavalla 6



Pierre Rabadan 7



Sergio Parisse 8



Julien Dupuy 9
2' 6' 28' 32' 56' 69'
Morne Steyn 10


49' Julien Arias 11



Herman meyer Bosman 12



Geoffrey Doumayrou 13


62' 68' Waisea Vuidravuwalu 14



Hugo Bonneval 15



Michael Van vuuren 16



Sakaria Taulafo 17



Carl Wegner 18



David Lyons 19



Jerome Fillol 20



Jules Plisson 21



Digby natu Ioane 22



Davit Kubriashvili 23
Remplacements

Joueurs entrant (Replacement incoming - or coming onto the field) David Lyons  Digby natu Ioane  Davit Kubriashvili  Sakaria Taulafo  Jerome Fillol  Michael Van vuuren  Jules Plisson  Carl Wegner  Joueurs entrant (Replacement incoming - or coming onto the field) Minute
Pierre Rabadan  40
Julien Arias  57
David Attoub  59
Hendrik Van der merwe  59
Julien Dupuy  64
Remi Bonfils  64
Hugo Bonneval  70
Gerhard Mostert  77

* Plisson replaced Hugo Bonneval after 70 minutes.

Montpellier 19 - 10 Paris

Mi-temps: 0 - 0

21ème journée - 28 février 2014, Altrad Stadium

Composition -Table de marque
Joueur Essai Trans. Pén. Drop Sakaria Taulafo



Remi Bonfils



Rabah Slimani



Alexandre Flanquart



Gerhard Mostert



Antoine Burban



Sylvain Nicolas



David Lyons



Jerome Fillol



Morne Steyn
55' 49'
Digby natu Ioane



Jonathan Danty 55'


Paul Williams



Julien Arias



Richard Kingi



Michael Van vuuren



Hendrik Van der merwe



Pascal Pape



Nicolas Garrault



Julien Dupuy



Jules Plisson



Geoffrey Doumayrou



David Attoub




1 essai(s) 1 trans. 1 pen. 0 drop(s)
Minute Joueurs sortant (Replacments out or leaving the field)
52  Gerhard Mostert 55  Sakaria Taulafo 57  Rabah Slimani 62  Antoine Burban 62  Jonathan Danty 63  Jerome Fillol 67  Richard Kingi 72  Remi Bonfils
Joueurs entrant (Replacement incoming - or coming onto the field)
 Pascal Pape Hendrik Van der merwe David Attoub Nicolas Garrault Geoffrey Doumayrou Julien Dupuy Jules Plisson *
 Michael Van vuuren * Plisson replaced Richard Kingi after 72 minutes.

Hope that helped.

When someone says something tongue in cheek, I normally spot it without needing smileys. I was hoping that a man with your age and experience would have the same abilities. Ah well. I suppose I will have to remember that you are a special case and I will try and remember that you certain deficiencies and have special needs and will try to cater for them in future.

PS. Before you start sulking, the last part was tongue in cheek.