Is Esterhuizen out of contention for test duty

The followng from MSC:

"Springboks centre Andre Esterhuizen will return to action with the Sharks this weekend in the Currie Cup semi-final against the Bulls.

The powerhouse midfielder has been omitted from Rassie Erasmus’ squad to travel to Argentina in the Rugby Championship after the Bok boss explained that he was sidelined through injury.

Esterhuizen featured in South Africa’s victory over Wales earlier this year before starting against Portugal in July. However, his shift against Os Lobos was cut short after he was red-carded in the second minute of the match.

The World Cup winner was subsequently handed a four-match ban which would have still made him available for the Rugby Championship matches as he would serve the suspension in Currie Cup games.

However, that was not the case as he was omitted from the Springboks squad with Erasmus explaining that he was using this time to treat some niggles.

At the end of August, the Bok boss said that Esterhuizen would be sidelined for three or four months but, in a bizarre twist, he has been named in the Sharks‘ starting XV for the crunch Currie Cup semi-final against the Bulls."

There is no way that Esterhuizen will be back in future Springbk squads - his performance on test level has been repeatedly shown he is inadequate on international level - he is really a dumb muscle example,   

When Kriel was injured in the 2019 RWC Erasmus was entitled to call up a replacement and he decided to calling up Damian Willemse ahead of Esterhuizen.   There are examples where he was inadequate - eg in defense and ball skills as well as isolating himelf and then causing posession losses,   

If the Springboks want to develop their backline performances  Eserhuizen would fit into it like a square peg into a round hole.    In any event the man is 30 years old already and he has not made any improvement in performances and is getting  past it when it comes to further development.

I always believe he is an example of dumb muscle which is not appreciated by Erasmus and definitely not by Browne. 

As nto dumb musscle player - I include Van Staden and Wiese in that category.   I hope Erasmus wake up as to those two sooner than later,   If the Springboks really want to develop a 15 man attacking game system, - those two are no-no's.

By the waay I looked  that test agaain and foud that the performance ratig of Etsruizen and Mstert should be as follows:-

Esterhuizen   -    3

Mostert         -     3,5

Erasmus gave Esterhuizen another chance to show his value to the tream and he buggered up royally,   Red card abd four week ban - that says it all.    .   

BS - he sis a case f a dud and of dumb muscle.    H ahs neve been superior to De Allende in anything,    That hs been proven all along.   In the Wales edt he did nothing of any value - and in oer tets majr deficiencies became clear,    In 2018 and 2019 Erasmus used him in tests and he produced e huge nothing in those tests.  Fact is his defnese was proved to be poor and hs attcks non-productive.   

He will be o no value in the 15 man game - since his pace is deficient and   bal ahndling poor.   In he 18 tests he played in he scored zero tries and the rest of hiserformances were all sub-standard.

Live with it - Esterhuizen is not a test elvel player nd Erasmus and his coaches knws that,   He will not fit into any plans of Browne - period.   

If De Allende is to be replaced it wil be by Willemse and not by Esterhuizen. .     .         .        

AE is the strongest Bok 12 ever.

I'm kinda sure he's actually an Xman.

Wouldn't you agree, Mike? 

I think AE could bench 10 x DDAs all standing on the back of a Hilux.

I'm also sure that Mostert would beat up Eben in a fight...like badly - on a side note, i phoned the Bok gym yesterday and they told me that Mostert benches more than Eben. Can you imagine my surprise? 

Anyway, so it's settled. DDA is a child compared to AE and Eben watches his mouth around Mostert.

Let's revisit a thread from 2019 where ou Maaik gets exposed just making stuff up that never happened, putting Esterhuizen in positions he never was (and a bunch of other nonsense besides). All that's changed in the years since is ou Maaik's typing has gotten worse.

Give me the thread that I was exposed in according to you.    Would ke to see that one.   What is true is that Esterhuizen on est elvel delivers the minimum - both in atack and defense and hat s why Erasmus did not pick him as part o the 2019 WC squad and when Kiel got injured and Erasmus picked Willemse ahead of him.

This year Erasmus used him in two tests and in he firs one against Wales - where the Springboks led 13-10 and then Erasmus brought on repacements and the replacement of Esterhuizen by De Allende and brngng a player like Shaca was also  part of it and in the end Estrhuizeen failed in producing anyhing of substance in that test,    He failed in that test and was AWOL in the one against Portugal.   Got a red card and 4 week ban so he showed nothing again.

In the end [produced any evidence where Eterhuizen produce anything of real value in tests  where he played in and one cn talkagain.    .

OK I take a look and it as all BS spreading.   I did not lie - by the time Esterhuizen got up and did not make any effort to get back nto is real center defense he was not anywhere near any defensive position.

However, show me just one example where Esterhuizen was of decisive value to the Springboks?  Just one example would do. 

De Allende scored 2 decisive tries that kept hte Springboks in wining the 2019 and 2023 WC's - the 2019 one n the semi against Wale an dhe other ag anst the French n the 202 3 quarterfinmal.   

Experts rate De Allendi as one of the top inside centers in the world - the site idiots do not and that is where the story ends,    If Esterhuizen is so good - give me just one example where it happened that he made any real impression from azny real incdent.      

Ou Maaik, Esterhuizen can score 10 tries in a game and you'll still go "I only cuont fiive treis waht are easy tr ies an one cn scre".

No Pake

I go on actual performances - not on manufactured BS.    Esterhuizn was not stepping up to international level and since 2018 he was a fringe player showing more failures and not any real value .    So tell me where I have been wrong. by pointing out good enough performances to be in the starting line-up of the Springboks ahead of De Allende?

   .   

So tell me where I have been wrong.

That entire thread I linked to tells you where you're wrong, and you're still defending your lies 5 years later.

Mike, let's be real here. You're not going to see anything good in what anyone sends you about Esterhuizen. There's a highlights video of his 2023 performance against Australia on Youtube where he plays a beautifully complete game, distributes, carries, gets involved in cleanouts, but you'll just deny there's anything good to see. There's the game against Aus in 2018 or 2019 where he destroyed Foley and kept Kerevi under wraps, but you'll just deny there's anything good in that either. It's pointless to bring these things under the attention of someone as dishonest as you. Even Dave rates Esterhuizen.

Nice praise wording -  in the 2019 he carried a ball well - passed ot to Du Toit who crrd the ball well and pu Aren dse in space,   that was he only menion in the Sky match report on the relevant test against an exceptionally week Austraia team - that lost the match 43 - 12.    

But Esterhuizen also flopped in more tests tets and after 18 tests he has not scored a single try.    He had one opportunity and knocked on the ball with an open tryline in front f him.      In the first test in June 2018 he made two good line breaks and isolated himself and there were turnovers in posession.   In the November 2018 test in  London the Springboks lost because when they were attaking Esterhuzen ran an idiotc  line isolating himself and it let to a possession turnover to the English.

I can name a number of other tests where his name as n the players list but where he prduced nothing of real value of the team.    The fact is when De Allende pass balls he si condemned where Esterhuizen does the same he is praised.    Passing of the ball is to be xpected from a center - but what is more important is creating try-scoring opportunities and scoring tries himself.   Of the latter there was really none. 

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CM never fear Esterhuizen is moving to the Cape and once he does that he will automatically win selection to play international rugby again.

AJH

No he won't -  he will have to play second fiddle to Willemse who is a much better center than he is.   As far as I know he sgned a conract with the Sharks.         

AJH

No he won't -  he will have to play second fiddle to Willemse who is a much better center than he is.   As far as I know he sgned a conract with the Sharks.         

Esterhozen is easily the best offloading back we have. He has done this brilliantly in English club rugby. And he draws the defense brilliantly. Sasha would prosper next to him…as would any 13 we choose. A creator vs the dead end we are currently playing at 12.

Have yu indeed seen it of Esterhuizen?   It must have at least ten off-loads should have happened in the 18 tests he is supposed to have played in.  He played in 17 tests - the 18th one he turned to D Dumb Muscle Mode and went AWOL through a red card.

By te way 2016 when  the Sharks were in bad trouble and Frans Steyn was sent packing by SARU the Sharks brought in Esterhuizen as his replacement.   I can still remember how you cut him down as a poor center at all.

To turn from what you called  poor - he must have been amazing in the few matches you saw him playing.

Amazing. .   

"Give it a rest, you going to blow a O Ring…..if AE and Mostert were so useless as what you make them out to be, then why were both of them picked by Rassie over and over again??"

Well, Rassie picked Esterhuizen 10 times more than AE...does that make AE 10 times better?

Rather watch the follwing video and see hat e Springboks scoring tries over the last five years,  and be a bit more positive than you normally are:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jmgsHmI58

Maul tries…. Kolbe and Arendse with turnover ball….pretty much nothing else. And 6 fewer tries than Jake’s Boks in 2007.

You will nee undersyand nything about rugby - you aree talking sht all the time and tha is a fac.  White enver won a seod WC so how can you even compare Erasmu's second win whe the S pringboks met the 4 top ranked countries in te world and in 2007 they never payed a team ranked higher than themselves at 5 i 2007/

The moral of the story is that the stronger opponets are the less are the scoring of tries.  If you do not understand that you must be totally deluded through prejudice.

The other issue is also that tries scored in tself scored are normally compared to ties their oppoents score,   

But mainly why not compare what happened in 2019  and in 2007 .as well - in othe words White's one and only WC and that of Erasmus  first WC?      .    .   

So now that the numbers don’t suit you the number of tries is suddenly not the right measure. …why am I not surprised.

Almost as infallible as: "Rassie is a poor coach, he was just lucky"

Almost as infallible as: "Rassie is a poor coach, he was just lucky"

I would urge everyone to watch the two series of Chasing the Sun. I've been watching it the past week. Being reminded of where we were in 2017 (0-57 against NZ, 3-38 against Ireland, major sponsors threatening to abandon the Springbok brand) gives extra significance to a RWC win barely two years later. That's not luck. Seeing what the French quarter demanded from the guys in 2023 provided better understanding of the tough England semi. A bruiser like Bongi sobbing like a child in the changeroom after that win shows what it takes out of the guys. It's a bit more complicated in the trenches of test rugby than us outsiders try to make it. I've gotten some much needed perspective from it.

57-0...and some complain about us beating them with only 1 point in a RWC final...I still say the true 2024 RWC final was vs France...

So you guys would want a person to believe that winning 3 knockout games by 1 point, had absolutely zero Luck ingredient ? So it was all planned?

No one can plan a 1 point win. There is probably luck involved, any close game is going to come down to fine margins and a bounce that goes this way instead of that way. But you don't get luck without some hard work. Look at the murderous scrum drills Daan Human had the guys doing and you'll understand why we managed to destroy the England scrum and save that game with scrum penalties, for example.

Mozart 

Do you know what maul tries really is?  t s obvious fromur comments you have no idea about what maul tries entail.   Maul tries nly happen when a maul was going forward  and one of the players involved in the maul remins involved in the forward going maul scored the tries.   he moment the maul stopped and a ball carrying player broke away from the  maul it is not a maul try anymore.

n any even  have posted vodeos on site to prove that the Springboks scored plenty of tries  by forwards forming part of backline atttacks. like ahppened n the case of the last wo tries of Du Toit and Kolisi.

Stop being a prejudiced idiot and start looking at what in reality actually happened.    Pleas explain why the Springboks won the last two WC and a sting f trophies his year - smething tt never happened under White, Meyer and Coetsee and once when De Vlliers was coach in 2009 iro the Nelson Mandela Plate, Freedonm Cup, and RC Cup as well - but it did not inmclude the WC as well.   Please explain that one i you can.  .   .              

By the ay your pet hate De Alende scored two rries against tha AB's - mos centers are lucky to sco 1 try against them.   I ooked at he ry of De Allende in the Wales semi in 2019 and your lies about that try was again exposed.   Get back to the truth please,                    

Pakie

There si in every match an elemet of luck - a kicked ball can bounce out in on e case and a try is is scord in another casse.     Ther is n rugby game where in ne form or anoher luck is no a factor.   There are also cases of incompetece at play - like when Esterhuizen - who scored no try in the 18 tess he played in knock on a ball with an open tryline in front of him.   So to caim that luck ha no impct on results,   

Your argument that ony uck played  role in the 2023 RWC is not te key element in winning it - it scertainly is - but s has th case been with other WC as well wher winning margins were less than 10 points wth only two exception beig 1999 and 2019/   In er words the margins f victory were small  in most WC's and could with  luck have gome the othe way.

But a win is a win and to say it was not worth anyhing is BS.   

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"So it was all planned? What next cows can fly Draad and Scotland is the next WC Champions??"

Ag nee man...

Mozart

The numbers do not suit you at all - that is why you ignore the 2019 RWC and you ignore the fac that tries on its own can be misleading and the tries the oppositn scored should also be taken into account to give a real value of attack and defense. capacity of teams.  

Fact is White wil never be coachibg the Springboks again - so his stats in a second WC is not even possible.   So you picked the 2023 RWC win to compre with the 2007 wiin and not Eramus's first RWC win.    Talk about pick and choose on your part is really misleading.

So get you facts in order.

Let’s say any 1 point game is a 50/50. That means you  have a coin toss chance of winning…50%. The chances of throwing three heads in a row are 12.5%. Winning a lottery with a 12.5% chance of winning is very lucky.

But let’s suppose we had some edge in those games….call it a 70% chance of winning. The chance of winning is then 0.7 cubed. Or 35% chance of winning.

More realistically we were probably slight favorites because of Pollard’s boot ….say 60% chance in each game. The chance of winning is 0.6 cubed or 21.6%. Call it one chance in 5. That seems realistic, the Irish showed these 1 point games won’t always go our way. We were very lucky at the WC.

Rasmus has been very lucky. But nobody is saying he isn’t a competent coach in the South African style….he did what I always said has to be done…,restore our strengths. But he hasn’t changed our game, he has doubled down on mauls, scrums and the boot. And thus far our attempts to change this are not working.