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FORUM / RUGBY /  Is Frans Steyn history?

Is Frans Steyn history?

Started by Mozart18 REPLIES643 VIEWS· 06 Jun 2016, 23:44
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Jun 2016, 23:44
#1
06 Jun 2016, 23:44#1
Not yet....if you watched Montpellier vs Racing. Yes he conceded a penalty for a high tackle, threw an errant long pass and made a poor clearance from the base of a ruck which led to a Racing try. But physically he looks phenomenal....alert, fit and at his best playing weight.
In the game he took a planned long lineup throw on the flat run and beat a couple of defenders....he beat 4 in all. He also made a steal on the ground the commentators called 'textbook". And handed off the Racing 6, knocking him to the deck  with trademark Frans power. When Frans tackles a player there are zero metres made in the tackle.

Based on what I saw in this game, he could have made a big difference to our WC effort and is still our most aggressive centre defender by a mile. His absence from Bok rugby for reasons that seem mostly a misunderstanding is hard to fathom. He was so obviously giving his all for a French club, how likely is it he wouldn't for his national team.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jun 2016, 01:33
#2
07 Jun 2016, 01:33#2
 Have you actually watched the game,  He made less than 2 meters per carry and his performance in fact was much worse than you give it out to be.  He is just too slow in pace to be effective.  His defense stank to high heaven - with a missed tackle ratio of 33%.   The other issue is his weight.  He still weighs 115 kgs and is effectively 10 kgs over-weight - useless and totally ineffective,    By the way it was not one wild pass - it was in fact two.   Mozart irrespective of all your praising the man is a square peg in a round hole - no better at center than he was for the Sharks, in other words atrocious.  How did you like the rubbish tackle made by Steyn on Goosen where he was dragged for meters and allowed Goosen to off-lay the ball for a Racing try?  Aggressive defense by Fat Fransie - that was the funniest expression of yours for years.               
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jun 2016, 13:23
#3
07 Jun 2016, 13:23#3
He has been in good form, but we have far better youngsters to invest in. We have quality centres to burn  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Jun 2016, 15:23
#4
07 Jun 2016, 15:23#4
 We have no test quality centres ....none.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jun 2016, 18:01
#5
07 Jun 2016, 18:01#5
 And Fat Fransie is not a  Super Rugby level center - definitely not.   
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Jun 2016, 09:04
#6
08 Jun 2016, 09:04#6
Absolute bullshit Moz...we have de Allende and Serfontein who are better than Jean ever was at 12. Frans Venter has test centre written all over him.
Jessie Kriel is far better than Jacque Fourie. Mapoe looks as good. Vorster looks test standard as do the likes of Janse v Rensburg and Odendaal.
Moz as per usual you are as clueless as ever.
de Allende and Kriel ripped Nonu and Smith apart...best measure of test centres you can get.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jun 2016, 21:51
#7
08 Jun 2016, 21:51#7
 The balls you believe amazes me Dave. Let's take them one by one....
Step is as slow as a cart horse, easily beaten through the outside gap by Janse Van Rensburg just recently.
Allende has always had defensive issues, both with tackling where he goes high all the time and also with organizing and bringing up the defensive line. He runs well in traffic, but doesn't offload....so generally the ball just dies with him.
And Kriel won't even make our starting team against Ireland, because he is invisible in game after game. I was no Fury fan but he was much more productive than this wisp of a man.
Venter was horribly skinned by one of the young Aussie centres....another slow stepper.
Not one of these guys is in Jean's class....who burst on the test scene a  worthy Springbok and proved it by outplaying his test opponents and scoring a raft of tries.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2016, 08:44
#8
09 Jun 2016, 08:44#8
 The notion that Serf is slow is a laugh. No faster or slower than the likes of Jean or Frans at 12. It's utter nonsense.
de Allende is one of the best centres in the game was the best last year. Far too big and powerful to ever have defensive issues. Beats more defenders than any other centre in the game.
Kriel is pure class the only reason he won't be starting is a quota one. That said Mapoe is in great form so deserves a crack.
We have better depth at centre than we have ever had. And with de Allende, Serfontein and Kriel we have three that have better skill sets than Jean and Fourie had and I rated that pair. 
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jun 2016, 08:56
#9
09 Jun 2016, 08:56#9
 I saw Carr leave Serfontein in his dust at their last encounter. 
Thing is ... Carr's no speedster ... 
That's a problem, Dave. 
Besides the lack of pace, he brings nothing to the park that cannot be matched ... and in fact bettered by an assortment of inside centres across the country .
Guys like Odendaal, Vorster, Janse van Rensburg, Venter and even Esterhuisen are better options at 12 if you ask me.
 

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2016, 09:01
#10
09 Jun 2016, 09:01#10
CC you are 100% wrong and it's bullshit that Carr or Janse v Rensburg beat him for pace.
Serfontein has been great this Super series easily our best 12.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2016, 09:27
#11
09 Jun 2016, 09:27#11
 

Mozart

We are discussing the selectability of Fransie here – not anybody else.   You made the statement that Fat Fransie should be the Springbok inside center – but rather than to defend your statement when it was questioned – you write  about deficiencies of other competing players – most of which should be compared with what Steyn produces and is not.

 De Allende may have defensive issues - but it s nothing compared to the defensive disaster Fat Fransie is.  Even in the club game on Sunday he had a missed tackle ratio of 33% and Goosen dragged him for meters before off-loading a ball for a try scored by Racing Metro which are examples of what he really produces.. 

As for dieing with the ball there is no center in SA as bad as Fat Fransie - he keeps the record for a center of losing ball possession and giving away penalties in one Super Rugby season and his recent performances in France are no better than his disasters for the Sharks.

You describe other players as slow and without a step.   Fransie is by some distance slower than his competitors and he has lost whatever step he has had years ago.   He had some pace earlier in his career when he was tall and his weight was 98 kgs n 2006-07.  He came back from France in 2012 weighing 118 kgs – a 20 kgs increase in weight not on account of bulking up – but the result of too much fat – which essentially caused his loss of pace.   He still weighs 115 kgs – which is 10 kgs more than an ideal athlete of his height should weigh.

The end result of that was that in the full 2014 and 2015 Super Rugby seasons he made 2 line breaks in each of the two seasons  and beat 8 defenders in 2014 and  9 in 2015.  Is that what is expected of an international center?   Definitely not.          

   
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jun 2016, 09:34
#12
09 Jun 2016, 09:34#12
 Believe what you want to believe, Dave. I'm just telling you what I saw.
You want to carry on in your fantasy world ... by all means ... knock yourself out ... 


SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2016, 10:58
#13
09 Jun 2016, 10:58#13

No fantasy at all. The guy was struggling under Meyer and Ludeke, playing the pathetic crash ball role and out of position at 13.


Under Marais at the Bulls, we see him once again attacking space and making the impression he did when he won the player of the JWC in the year he played.


He is a quality 12......saying he is any slower than the likes of Jean, Frans Steyn, Janse v Rensburg, Esterhuizen, de Allende  or Mnisi etc is laughable. 

BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jun 2016, 13:56
#14
09 Jun 2016, 13:56#14
 Serfontein has reasonable pace.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jun 2016, 14:16
#15
09 Jun 2016, 14:16#15
I actually remember Owen Farrell gassing him.....very slow, but not strong in the tackle. He has one trick ...an inside step....heir to the Wynand Olivier stepping crown. Not an international centre, barely provincial level.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2016, 14:22
#16
09 Jun 2016, 14:22#16

The big questions here are –

*    whom of Serfontein or Frans Steyn has more pace; and

*    whom of them has a step?

In both cases – the answer favours Serfontein – he has more pace than Fransie and at least he got an inside step – Fransie has no step at all anymore. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jun 2016, 14:28
#17
09 Jun 2016, 14:28#17
 As for Mapoe replacing Kriel for quota reasons, I have to disagree. Kriel has been a non entity this Super comp. He can't operate in the close confines of centre play....is simply over powered in the tackle. It's about time he went back to fullback.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2016, 17:59
#18
09 Jun 2016, 17:59#18
Kriel overpowered weighing in at 97kg....what a laugh  
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Jun 2016, 19:15
#19
09 Jun 2016, 19:15#19
 Back to OP topic. Fransie won't likely play for the Boks again. Too old, too white, too overseas, too much trouble and too....fat.
— END OF THREAD —

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