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Is Jantjies going to make the grade?

Started by clevermike20 REPLIES562 VIEWS· 21 Jun 2016, 13:53
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Jun 2016, 13:53
#1
21 Jun 2016, 13:53#1

The following from News24:-

 “Promise demonstrated … perfection rather more elusive.

That is how you could fairly sum up Elton Jantjies’s showing in the Springbok flyhalf channel thus far in the series against Ireland.

Saturday’s decider at Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium will give us a much clearer picture of where the Bok side as a whole under Allister Coetzee’s fledgling tenure as coach is heading, whilst Jantjies is one of the individuals about whom many critics and fans are likely to deliver a reasonably emphatic yay or nay afterwards in terms of future potential for the cause.

Frankly, nothing less than a clear-cut victory to seal the honours 2-1 seems the recipe for hiking public confidence in the current Bok crop, who came within a dangerous whisker in Johannesburg of a shock, early series defeat which would have made Port Elizabeth a depressingly dead-rubber exercise.

It is history now that several demonic efforts off the bench in the second half helped spare further blushes at Emirates Airline Park, whilst in a largely unconvincing starting XV, Jantjies was one of the better features on the day – albeit that that isn’t saying too much.

In his defence to quite a strong degree is that the Lions playmaker, magical at times in Super Rugby 2016, came into the series ever so slightly fast-tracked off a finger injury which may yet be acting as a minor impediment to both his best physical and mental levels.

He also made a sudden entry to proceedings during the Newlands defeat, following the unfortunate pole-axing of Pat Lambie in the 23rd minute, and earned mixed appraisals for the way he directed things for the remainder of that contest.

Some would argue that genuine “direction” was less evident than it should have been from him, on a day when a headless-chicken mentality permeated other Bok berths, although he produced one brilliant little inside off-load to tee up Lwazi Mvovo’s try.

Keep in mind, too, that when the second Test came along, Jantjies was making his starting debut, despite being first capped for the country back in 2012.

And it wasn’t all plain sailing on his beloved franchise home ground: deft touches and periods of tactical assuredness by him were accompanied by some shaky moments on defence or in aerial contest, a frustrating missed touch from a penalty and some inconsistency off the tee.

He ended up with a five-from-eight record at the posts on Saturday, although his blemishes included misses in quick succession from roughly the same angle on the left.

Still, added to his three-out-of-three record at Newlands (albeit largely simple kicks then) Jantjies currently sports an acceptable series strike rate at the posts of 72.7 percent; Paddy Jackson is on 78.6 for the Irish.
But we also still await Jantjies producing a game-managing performance of real authority, as he grapples with the transition from the franchise coaching of Johan Ackermann and company to the slightly different demands of the Coetzee regime at green-and-gold level.

You get the feeling that the wily, tenacious Irish are slightly “targeting” Jantjies for roughhouse treatment, albeit mostly within the bounds of the laws, given that he is not the biggest specimen to patrol what is a key channel both on attack and defence – certainly he is no Handre Pollard for ability to soak up or even hand out big hits.”

 

With Damian de Allende still well off his A-game from a tackling and organisational point of view at inside centre, Ireland are sure to have a dart in those critical infield areas in Port Elizabeth.

It is additionally important for Jantjies -- who turns 26 on August 1, so he is no first-class novice – to put some sort of stamp on proceedings because his similarly Test experience-shy scrumhalf, Faf de Klerk, is not a natural “bossing” character in that position in the mould of a Fourie du Preez who used to take much of the pressure off his No 10 through his own awareness and firm, astute decision-making and execution.

From a pure talent point of view, Jantjies, who earned admiration even from the swaggering, imperious terrain of New Zealand for some of his Super Rugby exploits a few weeks back, stands back to very few counterparts in his spot.

But sooner rather than later, we could do with firm evidence that he belongs at Test level, and isn’t just a lethal talisman one rung lower down.

The cauldron of a series decider on Saturday, and his fifth appearance for South Africa, could be the perfect place to confirm he can keep a recovered Lambie – and possibly others – at bay for the even weightier demands of the Rugby Championship.”

 

Jantjies was part and parcel of the HEADLESS CHICKEN mentioned above.  I could find a single incident in two tests where he made a positive contribution – the inside pass to Mvovo – which let to a try.   When he tried it afterwards - the move misfired.  For the rest he was a liability rather than an asset – he made some passes that was routine – but with signs that the recipients could do nothing with the ball – no attacking of the gain line drawing in defenders and off-loading the ball.   He was sub-standard from a kicking perspective and most of his kicks were aimless and inaccurate.

He played zero role in the four tries scored on Saturday.   I always thought Jantjies is a manufactured player – in other words he knows about all aspects of flyhalf play – but does not always realize when to utilize the various moves in the handbook – in other words he knows the theory – but cannot decide when the implementation will have the desired impact.   That is detrimental and shows a deficiency in reading of the game.      

In the main he was not convincing – but one has to give him a further chance to see whether he really can make the grade.   Thus far there were virtually zero signs of that.  

 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Jun 2016, 14:59
#2
21 Jun 2016, 14:59#2
I found this funny. The guy had his first ever start for the Boks on Saturday. Already we are trying to confirm suspicions that he won't crack it at test level. Mike your mention of that fact that you feel Jantjies is a manufactured player doesn't make sense to me. His S18 performances prove that he does know when to kick, when to pass, how to set up tries and to score tries. For two years now almost everything he has done has come off when he plays in red. And yeah, put this Irish side in the S18 and you'll see them raped week in and week out. I think the guy deserves more than just "A chance". How about a good run where his spot is secure and he can feel free to express himself? He has shown that when he has the freedom to do that,.he normally comes out on top. What I think happens here is that we try to justify other guys being better than him when all the evidence points the other way. Sure, he didn't shine the last two weekends, but aside from the precious few who did, shall we sack everyone? The guy is trying to adapt to what Coetzee wants, has a new team to get used to and is under enormous pressure to perform. The moment he hits his straps for the Boks and starts bossing games for us you'll all be singing his praises. In terms of all round skill, maybe tackling aside, he wins all other categories for me. Go to the S18 and look at his stats. Can anyone else tell me of any other other flyhalf in SA currently who can compete? Bring the facts. Try assists, kicking percentages, tries scored etc. I don't mind Lambie but for me he has never shown remotely the amount of skill that Jantjies has this last season. I found JD Lambie very one dimensional and predictable. He has never "shone" in the a bok Jersey either and has a good few caps under his belt. I think Pollard and Jantjies are probably the future. From me a good counter argument is that Boshoff had a very good game for the Lions against the Bulls. So maybe the Lions structures make Jantjies look. I guess I don't know enough about it to really know ;) Problem is that once one starts to go down that road you have to question every player all the time.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Jun 2016, 15:19
#3
21 Jun 2016, 15:19#3
Plum - Jantjies played in the 2012 Ellis Park test for 60 minutes and was so poor he never saw another selection until the Cape Town test.  The only person that can assure his place in the team is Jantjies himself.  From what I have seen of him over the last few years - inclusive of 2013 - have reduced my confidence in him considerably - but as I said we will have to see whether he has it in him to make the grade.  I was actually very impressed by Boshoff in the Bulls game this year - the best game the Lions played this year - and Boshoff is to my mind not a test flyhalf.  However, Jantjies  will have to show himself whether he should be the flyhalf - what he showed in the past two tests is just not good enough.   

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
21 Jun 2016, 15:43
#4
21 Jun 2016, 15:43#4
 Mike
Stop being such a pessimistic old racist.
You complain about EVERY player of color.

Jantjies 1st start and you're already giving him shiyt.
He has been our best flyhalf in SA for the past year, week in and week out.

Get off it brother.

It gets really boring.

Thank the lord Faf isnt coloured!
MA
MachiavelliClub Pro323 posts
21 Jun 2016, 15:59
#5
21 Jun 2016, 15:59#5
 Jantjies obviously played better with Whitely and Faf in front of him.  Whitely was able to control the ball better than an out-of-sorts Vermeulen.  The communication lines were better and as a result crisper decisions were made and Jantjies looked better.
If we pick on form as is the general consensus I am afraid there is no other experienced flyhalf to be found in SA - unless you want to opt for the Styens, the fat one and the old one.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Jun 2016, 16:22
#6
21 Jun 2016, 16:22#6
 No - I do not opt for the Steyns - and the racist allegation is not applicable.  I am aware that Jantjies did well for the Lions - but I am not convinced he is test material.   Like I said - lets wait and see what happens - actually I hope he proves himself in the longer run - but I still has a nagging doubt about that issue.    
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
21 Jun 2016, 17:38
#7
21 Jun 2016, 17:38#7
furthermore...
How can you ever expect him to perform well when
a. the pack is going backwards
b. the men inside and outside of him are not playing particularly well.
Do you really think lambie, pollard or anyone else for that matter would have shone?

As much as you deny it, in my opinion you are racist in general.

Im cdrtainly not advocating quotas, they are a terrible idea.
But hell, there are one or two decent darkies.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Jun 2016, 18:25
#8
21 Jun 2016, 18:25#8
Mike I hear you. I really do. But i can't agree. In the last two games the Boks played there were so many cmpounding factors. This ngs like work rate and intensity should always be there since it's something that is always in your power to bring to the game. I'm sure you'll agree that at 10 a lot depends on what the rest the team are doing. Aside from making some amazing tactical kicking plays, there is not much more Jantjies cpuld do really. I guess I am a bit biased towards him becsuse has impressed me for two years now. He has been instrumental in so many good things the Lions ha e done. I guess I defend him because I wanna see HM do that for the Boks. To my mind there are only two or three national teams that are better than the best SR teams. So yes, I understand test rugby comes with some added pressure but i honestly believe he has the skill set to eclipse some of our popular 10s of days gone by. Obviously, it's just my feeling and I have zero evidence to back it up. We'll, I have some Youtube Highline reel footage, but that's about it :)
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Jun 2016, 18:49
#9
21 Jun 2016, 18:49#9
 I'm all for Jantjies starting again. He was very good this year in SR. I don't like him much,  but he deserved an extended run. I don't like Lambie much either, BUT, I believe Alistair missed a trick by not keeping Morne on for the last 20 last week.
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
22 Jun 2016, 02:35
#10
22 Jun 2016, 02:35#10
Whether you like Elton or not, there simply in no other. I agree with the majority of the comments made, give the bloke a go! What I do say is sack the arses of the experienced under performing players and inject some passion and reward form.  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
22 Jun 2016, 02:54
#11
22 Jun 2016, 02:54#11
 The question in the header is.."Is Jantjies going to make the grade?...Truth be told no-one knows, I'm not a fan but cut the lad some slack and we'll know in time. Chippo...Mike is no racist, however, he is deeply prejudiced against certain players, once he has a player in his sights he is like a dog with a bone between his teeth. As  a mat ter of fact he becomes nauseatingly prejudiced. Right now Jantjies is the bone. The funny bit....he accuses others of being prejudiced.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,269 posts
22 Jun 2016, 03:15
#12
22 Jun 2016, 03:15#12
I prefer Jantjies to Lambie.

Lambie needs an inflatable helmet to stop getting knocked out. He and Kolbe are the main members of knocked out anonymous. He has never once got his backline running. He is solid but often predictable. 

Pollard overextended himself in Japan and is out for a year. I also think he might be better suited to inside centre. His tactical kicking game is hopeless.Sometimes it seems his role model is Schalk Burger in that he just wants to carry the ball into traffic. Although I would like to see him play with a good backline coach- and some structured backline moves.
Goosen would be my preferred choice because he is the best all-rounder. He has a good tactical kicking game- running game, and playmaking game. He has had a terrible run with injuries including falling out of a bus and then the aeroplane. 
Morne is Morne. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Jun 2016, 05:22
#13
22 Jun 2016, 05:22#13
 Lets wait and see what happens on Saturday.   Jut one thing about the racism story - I heavily criticized the following players after the last two tests - Mvovo, Vermeulen, Louw, Kolisi and Strauss - and added criticism of Malherbe, Redelinghuys and Etzebeth (after the first test), while expressing doubts as to the performances of Jantjies and Mapoe.   That is covering all racial groups in the team - so I fail to see where the racial issue x ame from.       
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
22 Jun 2016, 07:33
#14
22 Jun 2016, 07:33#14
Great post there Plum
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
22 Jun 2016, 10:03
#15
22 Jun 2016, 10:03#15
@Devil's. Thank you sir :) Also. I watched the Supersport rugby show last night. Joel reckons he was fine with Jantjies' performance over the last two games and that he will grow. Faf also got a good rating. He gave him an 8. He really slated Duane, Strauss and Louw. I get that. Those are the guys that are supposed to be leading the way and giving the new lads an opportunity to shine. Somehow it has ended up totally the other way around. I cannot understand this. How many of us here would have predicted such and outcome? I certainly couldn't. Really hope there are no issues in the camp. If there are, it doesn't seem to be affect PSTD, which is awesome. Interesting stat...Strauss made 2 tackles in 160 minutes against the Irish. Two bloody tackles? In what uninverse would Bismark make then less one tackle in a half, let alone just one in 80 minutes. Marx? I don't think it would be possible for him to make less than 2 in a half even if he just stood there in the middle of the field looking at the sky.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Jun 2016, 10:18
#16
22 Jun 2016, 10:18#16
 Plum - I hope for Jantjies sake Stranski is correct.  You people do not believe it when I seriously criticized Strauss - he was useless in all aspects of play, not only in defense.  I agree about Louw and Vermeulen - they were hopeless from a performance perspective.    
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
22 Jun 2016, 10:20
#17
22 Jun 2016, 10:20#17
We all love Thor, but the writing was on the wall re his current form, Strauss was good when battling with Bizzie for the #2 shirt but has been nothing short of LAME for some time now. Louw has always been sh*t.  
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
22 Jun 2016, 10:24
#18
22 Jun 2016, 10:24#18
Plum
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 789RE: Is Jantjies going to make the grade?
June 22, 2016, 10:03:08

I don't think it would be possible for him to make less than 2 in a half even if he just stood there in the middle of the field looking at the sky.



LMAO !
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
22 Jun 2016, 10:38
#19
22 Jun 2016, 10:38#19
Hey Plum,Coaching U8's a few years back I had a few players that spent a fare while looking at the sky! 
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
22 Jun 2016, 10:38
#20
22 Jun 2016, 10:38#20
"You people do not believe it when I seriously criticized Strauss" Mike you could go back the the thread about the Springbok squad, the one that was made on the evening that the Lions dubbed the Bulls at Lotus. You will see my comment that Strauss didn't belong near the team based on his current form and that he was a reputation pick due to Coetzee wanting him to captain the side. At that point many were still for his inclusion. Not me. So I do agree with you Mike. Actually, since I was the first one to make the point I think it is rather you that agrees with me. Regardless we are on the same page as far as that is concerned.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Jun 2016, 13:54
#21
22 Jun 2016, 13:54#21
 Mee too.
— END OF THREAD —

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