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FORUM / RUGBY /  Is Pistorius Innocent or Guilty?

Is Pistorius Innocent or Guilty?

Started by nukefreekiwi31 REPLIES533 VIEWS· 25 Mar 2014, 00:38
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NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
25 Mar 2014, 00:38
#1
25 Mar 2014, 00:38#1

Like many folks, I have been following the Pistorius trial intently, eager to glean some new piece of definitive information that will help convince me of his guilt or innocence.  Im still undecided but if I was forced to make a decision I would say he was at least guilty of recklessly firing his pistol at an unidentified target (manslaughter) if not deliberate and cold blooded murder. 



 From what I can gather the prosecution case is largely circumstantial, relying heavily on eye witness accounts. The neighbours testimony where she claimed she heard TWO distinct voices engaged in a heated argument BEFORE she heard gunfire is especially damning. I found the defences explanation unconvincing i.e. both voices were Oscars, the high pitched womanly squeals was Oscars reaction to the realisation that he had shot his girlfriend, and the loud banging that followed the screams was not gunfire but Oscar trying to break down the door with a cricket bat. This is a weak defence for countless reasons, least of all is why the door would have been locked in the first place. 


Its also been revealed that Oscar has a history for recklessly discharging his firearms. One example was the restaurant incident where he fired his gun under the table then begged a friend to take responsibility for the mishap because he didn't want to deal with the ensuing furore. The most pertinent example is the claim by an ex girlfriend that Oscar fired a pistol through his open sunroof because he was angry that the policeman had touched his gun after he had been pulled over for speeding. If Oscar is not guilty of murder he is definitely guilty of being an über-pratt. 



Then we have testimony from several eye witness' suggesting that Oscar is a hothead, easily bought to the boil and has on occasion been known to express his anger in an intimidating and frightening manner. We have the police reports that document at least 2 separate visits to the couples home because of "domestic disturbances". We also have text messages where Reeva has said she was afraid of Oscar.

 


Anyways, I'm just curious to hear what others think. Im not trying to make any commentary on the South African legal system nor do I intend this thread to turn into a "NZ is better than SA" debate. I just want to know if others are as fascinated as I am and whether anyone has an opinion about Oscars innocence or guilt. 

KE
KeaganzulusmithClub Pro175 posts
25 Mar 2014, 00:53
#2
25 Mar 2014, 00:53#2
 The mans Guilty, it may have been a mistake and he may just have intended to scare her but he is guilty. If you havent read the text message that reva sent him the night it all happened then i recommend you find it, could easily have lead to fight, also who in there right mind doesnt check if there partner is in bed with them still if you hear a noise before you go and get your gun and shoot threw a door with out being sure of where your wife is. 
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
25 Mar 2014, 01:04
#3
25 Mar 2014, 01:04#3
 Nah, I haven't read the entire message, just snippets that have been posted on various sites. I'll have a look for it just now.  If he is found guilty, do you think there is any way that he could escape a custodial sentence? Doesn't seem possible but I have read of examples in South Africa where convicted killers avoid jail time by paying out large sums to the victims family..eg, Bees Roux. 
KE
KeaganzulusmithClub Pro175 posts
25 Mar 2014, 01:16
#4
25 Mar 2014, 01:16#4
 Tbh i dont even think he may be found guilty his pockets are deep and the court system in SA isnt as tight as other countries but if he is i think he might be found guilty of manslaughter or some thing like that a get a lesser sentances like 6-10 years and then released early for "good" behavior. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
25 Mar 2014, 01:27
#5
25 Mar 2014, 01:27#5
 Is it like in the US where money buys you freedom from prosecution ? He did it no doubt but if hes remorseful he should man up and spare her and his own family any more pain .
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
25 Mar 2014, 01:29
#6
25 Mar 2014, 01:29#6
They say h e does not have a leg to stand on, and if he goes to jail he may not have an arse to sit on!
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
25 Mar 2014, 01:54
#7
25 Mar 2014, 01:54#7
 @ SB.  Hehe, thats funny!
 Its  going to be interesting to see how things pan out. I think the prosecution have nearly finished presenting their case and the defence will begin presenting theirs in the next few days so there is no chance of him sparing the victims family additional grief by owning up and admitting his guilt. 
I can't imagine Oscar spending any time in jail.  I suspect that if Oscar is found guilty of murder or manslaughter that his defence team will contrive some kind of convoluted scheme where he avoids incarceration.  Maybe some form of novel home detention where he pays a custodian to supervise his sentence in his own specially modified home. 
It hardly seems fair but I think the global media interest means that its not just Oscar on trial but the South African judicial system is on trial also.  We will have to wait and see but the lack of a jury means the presiding judge must be under incredible pressure to discern a credible verdict. 
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
25 Mar 2014, 02:17
#8
25 Mar 2014, 02:17#8
  Guilty...take him outside in the yard and cut his head off.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
25 Mar 2014, 02:51
#9
25 Mar 2014, 02:51#9
  Oscar Pistorius


www.supersupporter.net/gossip-section/9479-oscar-pistorius.html


Nukefkiwi, here's a good mix of SA opinions, plus more .

NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
25 Mar 2014, 03:07
#10
25 Mar 2014, 03:07#10
 Cheers BB, thats very kind of you. I'll go check it out. 
RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
25 Mar 2014, 04:16
#11
25 Mar 2014, 04:16#11
 Guilty jealous boyfriend - lol " doesn't have a leg to stand on"- sharkbok...
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
25 Mar 2014, 06:56
#12
25 Mar 2014, 06:56#12
my thoughts on the matter are, its not hard for me to believe that oscar would shoot first without waiting to confirm if it was a burglar or not.

the dude fires a gun for no reason when he was driving with a friend, and he also shot of a gun in a restaurant, i mean WTF???

would like to know what the txt said though, cos that sounded interesting as a mofo.


but while reading the link from blobok, i stumbled across the name rudi visagie a former Bok player who shot his daughter.

the circumstances involved made me really sad for rudi and his family.

i hope that there is some measure of peace in their lives at the moment.

my belated thoughts and prayers are with them.
NT
ntangaClub Pro336 posts
25 Mar 2014, 09:57
#13
25 Mar 2014, 09:57#13
He is Guilty as they come, he is not that stupid to have not checked where his girlfriend was before shooting.  IMO, He probably should admit that he acted at the heat of the moment, (possibly, after a row with Reeva that night).  
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
25 Mar 2014, 11:37
#14
25 Mar 2014, 11:37#14
 Apparently it all started when Oscar wanted a new bathroom door, but his girlfriend was dead against it......
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
25 Mar 2014, 11:52
#15
25 Mar 2014, 11:52#15
 Personally, I have always thought he was totally guilty; that he knew exactly who he was shooting at and that she had run into the bathroom to escape him. That's only my theory....as the poor girl is dead in the most horrendous of circumstances, only he can give the answers and he doesn't appear to want to do that.I think he tried to cover his tracks thereafter, or someone else devised the idea for him. I suppose they probably thought he'd get away with it ? Slap on the wrist maybe ? 
The fact that she had splinters of the door in her wounds made me think she was behind the door, not in the toilet area. The splinters wouldn't have been able to follow that tragectory nor would they have been strong enough wood to do so any way. That's what always made me think she'd gone there, he'd followed her, she was behind the door and he shot her there and then, in a rage.
And then realised what he'd done.
A terrible tragedy and the fact that she lost her life, in such an horrific manner, seemed to be of no consequence...it's all about him !! 
Of course he has to be punished, even if they do only find him guilty of manslaughter. And, just because he is disabled, I suppose he shouldn't be treated differently...let's face it, he's made such a big deal about not wanting to be treated differently. Now that may come back to bite him......But I still can't help but feel horribly sorry for him and I know I shouldn't !!   

From what I've seen of the Trial on the News here, it has been a bit of a mess thus far !! 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
25 Mar 2014, 12:14
#16
25 Mar 2014, 12:14#16

 Guilty

 

I ask myself why would she have taken her mobile with her into the toilet in the early hours of the morning. My main reason is that it appears that the first shot hit her in the arm, she would have screamed, he would have recognized her voice....end of.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
25 Mar 2014, 12:52
#17
25 Mar 2014, 12:52#17
 
He's aggressive, prone to public tantrums, emotionally unstable and arrogant thinking the world owes him. A law unto himself.

Her body's hardly cold and he's already sporting another piece of ass on the arm. The man has no shame. Upchucking in a bucket is all a stage show.

He pumped those bullets through the door knowing full well who was cowering for her life behind it.

A murdering piece of trash.


BE
becsPro4,378 posts
25 Mar 2014, 13:10
#18
25 Mar 2014, 13:10#18
 I've always been quite sure he knew who it was in there and that she must have run in there to get away from him. It doesn't bear thinking about  
I have to take my phone with me everywhere, Denny......hazard of being poorly. But I get your meaning. Then again, some " normal " people do take them everywhere with them...
I'm also not sure whether the tears and the upset are about her or they are for him.....not even for show. Whether he is thinking about himself !! You know, " poor me " 
Has he got another girlfriend ? That's rather rum. 

Then again, I always felt it was a bit of a sham relationship....all rather staged, you know, as most of these things are. No-one really " loves " anyone. It's just about the publicity and that is all horribly sad. In this case, it's even sadder.
The price of fame, hey ? They've both got more than they wanted...and for all the wrong reasons !! 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
25 Mar 2014, 13:12
#19
25 Mar 2014, 13:12#19
Strangely enough I was watching a crime show where they stated how women invariably run into the bathroom to try and escape their attacker .looks like Pretorious is using the double Simpson Defence as in Bart " I didnt do it no one saw me do it you cant prove I did it " Simpson and OJ " I'm a rich famous sporting guy with all the lawyers in the world " Simpson .Pretorious will probably write a book about it .Moola and SB your wicked bad .
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
25 Mar 2014, 13:31
#20
25 Mar 2014, 13:31#20
 Well it's ingrained to go to somewhere you can shut the door and hide....behind the shower curtain, preferably, so Norman Bates can come in with his big knife  

Seriously, that is where you would tend to go if you were being attacked and hurt, if he did hurt her in the bedroom. I suppose she would head for what she thought was a safe place behind doors so she could call for help. And people always stomp off into the bathroom and slam the doors or go and have a bath for hours when they've had a row, don't they ? It's what they do...they wait until the guy has left the house before they come back out !And, if she was bleeding already, let's say she was, she would have the opportunity to try and stem the flow in a bathroom. Also, he had dogs roaming outside. S he runs out with him chasing her...they'd probably attack her......!!!!
Poor girl  

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
25 Mar 2014, 13:47
#21
25 Mar 2014, 13:47#21
 
I'm curious about the blood splatter on the bedroom wall.

Not sure if I missed anything regarding it but sure looks as if he had his hands on her before she managed to get into the bathroom.

Certainly looks as if she knew she was in trouble. Can only imagine her terror.

Bastard!!
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
25 Mar 2014, 14:02
#22
25 Mar 2014, 14:02#22
 Yes, I don't know why that wasn't mentioned further. Blood on the duvet and on the wall ? Spent casings in the bedroom ? 
And something to do with damage to the door ? 

What the heck does anyone need bullets like that for either ? It beggars belief.

I just can't imagine. 


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
25 Mar 2014, 14:23
#23
25 Mar 2014, 14:23#23
 Becs, the first shot hit her in the arm, it didn't kill her, she would aave yelled out in agony, a normal reaction, he would have recognized her voice....case closed.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
25 Mar 2014, 14:36
#24
25 Mar 2014, 14:36#24
 Oh I know that, Denny  

But if someone is fearing for their life and firing bullets off in rapid succession, they are arguing he didn't hear a scream......or that it was him screaming like a girl and not her, aren't they ? I mean, really. That is just ridiculous...he screams like a girl !!!! 
I just want to know what he'd done to her first. That's all  
He just needs to tell the truth, I think. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Mar 2014, 16:04
#25
25 Mar 2014, 16:04#25
 "Nah, I haven't read the entire message, just snippets that have been posted on various sites. I'll have a look for it just now.  If he is found guilty, do you think there is any way that he could escape a custodial sentence? Doesn't seem possible but I have read of examples in South Africa where convicted killers avoid jail time by paying out large sums to the victims family..eg, Bees Roux. "
There is absolutely no chance of any other sentence than jail time for serious offences like murder and culpable homicide. Bees Roux was not convicted. He did not commit murder, he killed a City Policeman while intoxicated. It was not murder, as the Cops were trying to rob and blackmail him and a fight broke out. He was still negligent and had to pay damages due to the lack of income the family suffered. That was not a sentence, but a plea bargain with the prosecutor. There would have been a good chance of him being completely exonerated if it had gone to trial, but that process would have been more costly and there was still an outside chance that he would have gotten a jail sentence. Legal cost is extremely high in this country and if you can't afford it you are doomed to the weak legal aid the government provides. He opted for the quicker, cheaper and safer deal.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
25 Mar 2014, 17:31
#26
25 Mar 2014, 17:31#26
"He's aggressive, prone to public tantrums, emotionally unstable and arrogant thinking the world owes him. A law unto himself."
Klown, are you describing yourself or Oscar?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
26 Mar 2014, 10:09
#27
26 Mar 2014, 10:09#27
 
Come now Redneck ... why would I refer to myself in the third person?

I may need a little therapy but I'm by no means certifiable.


AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
26 Mar 2014, 16:25
#28
26 Mar 2014, 16:25#28
 Guilty.
Typical "SKOP SKIET EN DONNER" attitude that prevails unfortunately.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Mar 2014, 16:45
#29
26 Mar 2014, 16:45#29

It was moving watching Oscar at the Olympics in the 400 relay.....then a week or so later he accused the young Brazilian who beat him in the Para 200 of cheating. T he lack of sportsmanship was shocking, I think to everybody who saw Oscar as a symbol of courage. The Para games to a large extent, were his games up to that point.

 

And now this, has anybody fallen so far from grace. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Mar 2014, 18:31
#30
26 Mar 2014, 18:31#30
 Guilty as sin, will probably get 25y in the bin with the other hard criminals . Vanity seems to have been his criptonite. Sorry but heroes fail, he seems to have had blades of clay.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
27 Mar 2014, 01:23
#31
27 Mar 2014, 01:23#31
 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
27 Mar 2014, 02:35
#32
27 Mar 2014, 02:35#32
 
— END OF THREAD —

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