2008 Super 14 Rugby Player of the year and renowned puker- but still not called into the Stormers Squad during the loose forward crisis this year.
Captain of the Lions (oops Super Kings) in 2013 Super 15.
Yes, his frame was no bigger than Craig Davidson, with whom he was often confused. Soialo picked him up and tossed him over the Bok goal line. Fogettabouthim.
I somehow think size had nothing to do with it. Would any coach want Luke in his squad given his history. His dad pulls the strings at the Kings, hence their embrace of his services!!
So de Jongh is too small for centre. But the height challenged Watson is ok to play flank. Dave your brain is addled.
Nope there is no issue at all with a 100kg openside flanker, there is an issue with an 87kg outside centre.
Its that simple Moz - you will find 100kg opensides playing test rugby like Brussouw, Daniel, Pocock, Hopper, Warburton, Diseltua, Johnson etc
You dont find 87kg outside centres
I think Watson's problem is not his size - but his mouth. He was captain of the Stormers and when it was evident that he could not continue because of the deficiencies in performance he was dropped as the captain. He then went on the rampage against Burger, De Villiers and Bekker, saying that he was better than any of them and the reason for change was not performance, but because they were members of an Afrikaans clique that was running the Stormers Rugby fraternity.
That insofar as the Stormers were concerned was the final straw that broke the camels back and it was clear that insofar as Stormers rugby is concerned his remzarks were equalvalent to the PUKE remarks he made. They would rather use Witgatwortelfonteins second team flank than call him up to play for the Stormers
sapster David Pocock is 105 kg. Warburton is 103kg and Ashley Johnston is 105 kg (If you are speaking of him).
Daniels, Brussouw and Johnston do not command starting places.
All the loosies of SA, OZ and nz are bigger than 100 kg. 100 kg is becoming a problem. Bit too small. Our Coetzee is 106kg but by next year will be 108 to 110 kg you wait and see.
The last thing you need against a pack like Englands is a whole lot of loosies being tossed about like floating corks an dstringbean missing in action locks like wee victoria.. Small guys come second sapster I thought I had at least taught you that. Bwahahahahaha.
No sapster even your openside flanker needs a bit of size otherwise he will be just tossed aside, be knocked off the ball an dgo backwards in the drive etc etc. Try and keep up wih modern trends please dave.
Wonder how the 114 kg Potgieter is progressing re his injury. Would have liked to see him in a test. Guys like him and Vermuelen at 116 kg Schalk at 111 kg (an averagfe sort of weight these days) are they type of guys we need.
Those wanting wee daniels, brussouw and kambamba floors types are in for a disappointing time with Meyer at the helm . Daniels is there purely as an impact player and because of injuries to others like Schalk, Vermulen etc. When they came back he disappears.
I hope sapster you have a clearer view on matters now.
At least now we all know how to get in sapster good books - the biltong method. Fancy you and Mike meeting like that!
No Beenkop, Johnson of England, I think I have a little more rugby knowledge than you take me for - why on earth would I have fat Johnson as a openside.
Pocock does not weigh 105kg and what is a kg or two. Do you really think Brussouw will not start another test for the Boks and by the way he weighs 102kg's these days
There is no issue with a 100kg openside flanker weighing between 95kg and 105kg - its a reality of test rugby despite your take on weights. How much do you think Hooper of Oz weighs that comes off the bench for Oz and Daniel of the Boks - both less than 100kg
Pocock weighs 105 kg I looked it up. 95 kg is much too light.
Fact is Brussouw and Daniles - who will be history - do NOT command starting places. To me their futures depend on how well the tight five and how physical the other two loosies are. If they are physical enough you may just get away with them or with Brussouw at least. These guys role in future may be as impact players. Bit like wee Aplon.
Keegan Daniels, 96 kg, should have been a scrummie. May have been a great.Tradgedy his coaches never directed him properly.
What rubbish neither will be history and no Daniel has made a huge success of being a loosie, he adds a new dimension to the art.
So what if they dont start and so what if Pocock is 3kg heavier than Brussouw. Brussouw is a class act and will be back. Small openside flankers have a place in the game as evidenced by the test sides playing today.
Why is this even up for discussion?
He was a below weight, short, average doos who got along with no one at all.
Its moved on from Watson you fool, or are you too stupid to pick that up?
Brussouw, like Aplon is the exception that proves the rule. Pocock is probably about the minimum size for a flank. And even then you give up bulk in the drives and height at the back of a lineout. Play Pocock and your opponents have safe ball at the back.
But here's the point Pocock has a much bigger frame than tubby Watson. Watson is too small/weak.
Saspter name me a loose foward who starts for the Boks, Nz or Oz under 105kg.
In five years time it will most likely be 110 kg.
Try and keep up with trends and remain relelvant is my advice sapster and calling folk fools is hardly appropriate.
But hey I did say those wee flankers of yours may have a role as impact players or if we are so dominant otherwise that we can carry them in certain respects and let them play a loose roving backline type of game.
Luke will not enjoy his rugby with the queens.
Watson is history so who cares now. Given how few ballls actually go to the back of the line-out, I hardly think the height of the 6 matters at all if you have a tall 7 & 8. The weight of the 6 matters little as well as you will find most test props and locks are 115kg+, hooker, 7 & 8 being 105kg+. If the 6 is just under 100kg's thats fine as long as the rest of the pack carries beef
You are so inconsistent on this size issue it's hilarious. Look let me explain it to you, for once and all. Size helps in contact, whether at 13 or 6. But at 13 you are mostly trying to defend a complete breach....at 6 you are mostly defending a partial breach and offload. Size matters more at 6, decisive tackling matters more at 13.
I am always open to playing a small player who makes an impact and doesn't present his opponents a target. At 12 de Jongh can be targeted, at 13 , he is fine. At 6 Watson was an easy target in his few tests.
Exceptional small players are fine in a few positions....weak, slow small players with no stamina like Watson are an anathema.
Not inconsistent at all. 100kg is not small and thats the point be it as a 6 or centre. 87kg is small.
A 100kg flanker is playing on a level playing field, an 87kg centre is not. A 100kg person is pretty big no matter what position he is playing, a 87kg player is small. There is place for a small (relative to the other forwards) flanker in a side, there is no place for a small wing, centre or fullback.
My take is based on what is happening in modern day test rugby
"A 100kg flanker is playing on a level playing field".......hahaha....what when he is trying to stop a 120 kg prop like the Beast?
Black is white if I say so
Wrong is right if I say so.
A 100kg flanker has more chance of stopping a 120kg prop than an 87kg centre done
The people who always used to moan about Luke Watson not making the team all suddenly had a change in heart after Jakw White wrote a book.
Puke Watson was a transformation Springbok.
Dislikes by his team mates and rugby administrators because of his attitude and big mouth,but pushed by Cheeky and the guys in power.
Did not fit in with the Sharks.
Did not fit in with the Stormers.
Did not fit in with the Springboks.
Disliked at Bath.
Great fit with the EP Queens....just ask Cheeky Watson.
This started off with a discussion on Watson - but went on to other positions and the weight issue. I think there is a problem with light wieight players at 6 - they do not provide adequate support for the prop forwards in scrummaging - hence Watson was an extra scrummie at best. He was always standinga round in the back line and not where he should have been. Lets forget about him - he is past tense.
Daniel was good for the Sharks at Super 15 level - but he would not make it when the other loosies becomes available - especially Vermeulen and Burger. He is unlikely to be even on the bench when they are back from injury - so that is also not an option.
I think De Jongh is weak in attacking play - he is too light in that Department, but has never been found wanting in defence. He is to my mind a definite no in the longer term for that reason. I think there are better youngsters coming through - eg Serfomnetin, Jordaan, Howard, Van Wyk and Small-Smith, etc. The latter is anything - but small.
The only reason he got outside of Eastern Province was he family. He should have never seen any of the big teams let alone the boks. Lambie is 87kg an he is tiny when you compare him to other backs... A player nowadays must be over 90kgs to play in backline so you simply cannot expect a pack players to be anything else. As soon as it gets to any break down or scrum, they will simply get slapped to one side.
