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FORUM / RUGBY /  Is Raymond Rhule another Mvovo....

Is Raymond Rhule another Mvovo....

Started by Mozart63 REPLIES929 VIEWS· 09 Jul 2013, 03:33
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2013, 03:33
#1
09 Jul 2013, 03:33#1
....Nokwe was better, at least you knew for sure he was the fastest man on the park. Methinks yes.....the Ndungane twins, slow as carthorses, are still better rugby players than these two chaps. Rhule and Mvovo....dominating against weak teams, nowhere to be seen against the better wings.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 09:47
#2
09 Jul 2013, 09:47#2
There are definitely members of this site - and at times myself included since I am too conservative in my approach and look at all aspects of game performances - who have problems in performance analysis of players. We are indeed fortunate to have Mozart on the Board - the easy way out is to look at what he says and take the opposite view immediately. Mozart's assessments are easy to understand. He always base his assessments on one incident in a game - even if that incident happens years ago - and the infallible one according to him is the norm once a Springbok always a Springbok. This is a typical example of Mozart a his best. In a test against the Aussies Mvovo came on from the bench and badly fluffed a ball kicked in by the Wallabies - which put the Springboks under massive pressure. Everybody agrees it was a bad mistake on his part. A logical person would follow Mvovo's performances and see whether that problem is persisting in his subsequent games - not Mozart the player is condemned for life because of that one incident. I have followed Mvovo's performances this year and there were NO similar instances - matter of fact his performances were solid in that respect and he was good in all other aspects of the game. To compare his present performances with those of the Ndunganes is an insult to rugby intelligence. Mozart's comic value is great and his statements can be guaranteed to be totally absent in substance. Mvovo dominates against weak teams, nowhere to be seen against stronger opposition - great entertainment that one. Mvovo scored a great try against the Cheetahs (first match) - but the Cheetahs is a weak team. After all the Cheetahs is only 6th on the Super 15 log this year - so they must be weak with inter alia another Mozart weakling Labuschagne - a player Mozart condemned before he saw a single game he played in - in the team. Rhule's performances were discussed in another thread and everybody agreed that there are some problem areas in his game. Since we are dealing with a young player - the obvious way forward is to see whether he can overcome the present weaknesses he showed. If they persist - then it is obvious that he is not good enough - but to make wild statements at this stage of his career is really not on..
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
09 Jul 2013, 10:26
#3
09 Jul 2013, 10:26#3

Speed is a nice to have in rugby.  Yes a player must be fast, I am talking about that extra turbo boost like Nokwe and JJ and Habana etc.  But to be successful in rugby a back line player needs to be a little more balanced.  There Mr. Mozard says himself that the Ndugane are better.  Not faster, more balanced as players.  You need to be able to step off both feet at high speed (Willie le Roux) You need to be able to tackle and communicate in the defensive line.  You need to be good at catching the high-up-and-under balls because you will be tested.

 

Maybe rule will come right, but at this age if he has not yet I wonder.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jul 2013, 11:28
#4
09 Jul 2013, 11:28#4

 I think Mvovo has upped his game this year and is now a reasonably competent wing. At this point in time a lot better than Rhule. 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
09 Jul 2013, 12:08
#5
09 Jul 2013, 12:08#5
Mike, Moz makes a valid point. You say that he is harping on about one incident, and forever making a judgement based on that incident, but that is exactly what you are doing! What Moz has posted above is 100% true as a broad view of backline players, yet you have ignored all that and latched onto that stuff up by Mvovo against the Aussies, and Moz's reaction to it. React to what Moz has posted above and forget about old worn out arguments from the past. Mvovo does tend go AWOL in the tough games.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
09 Jul 2013, 12:10
#6
09 Jul 2013, 12:10#6
Agreed Beans, Mvovo has improved and is better than Ruhle, but when compared with players like Habana and Pietersen, he is just not anything to write home about.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 14:31
#7
09 Jul 2013, 14:31#7
Bluebok I am very sorry - but I differ from you here. When reading Mozart's statements on this site - especially where he provides the heading - you must always look at both the heading and the contents. In another thread people expressed doubts about Rhule's performance and suddenly Mozart is bringing in Mvovo - a player has has in the past condemned all out - based entirely on the one incident I referred to above. I have a problem though about what you said in agreeing with Mozart about Mvovo's weak performances in Super 15 and his remark on domination against weak teams and nowhere to be seen against better wings. Mvovo had a problem this year in that the backline players inside of him in the Sharks team were dysfunctional and he never saw a ball and had to go and look for same in matches. When he did get the ball he made a lot of ground with it and that was evident in him scoring tries and contributing to the scoring of at least one try. The tries he scored were against the Cheetahs and the Highlanders and the one he contributed to was against the Bulls. The Cheetahs are regarded in disdain by Mozart, the Highlanders we all agree is a weak team - but Mvovo's opposite number was Hosea Gear - which reduces Mozart's statement further. Mvovo had no problems in defence and was sound under high balls - on average he put in good performances this year. A further point of difference is your reference to Habana and Pietersen. I have no problem with the issue of Habana - after all he is the best wing in the world in my book. However, Pietersen did not live up to his reputation in this years Super 15. He suffered from the same problems Mvovo did - and statistically his performances were poor - his best game being the one against the Crusaders. In all other games he can be rated as way below par. Statistically and otherwise he was way poorer than Mvovo. In summary - taking into account the environment he played in Mvovo had a good enough series this year - while there were problems encountered in Rhule's performance. The Ndungane twins were poor in performance this year and were mostly bench selections by their franchises- hence my response to Mozart.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
09 Jul 2013, 14:51
#8
09 Jul 2013, 14:51#8
Mike Pietersen is getting on a bit, so his performances are just not quite as good as they were when he was in his prime. Agree on Habana, he is a special player. Getting back to Mvovo, maybe it is unfair to compare him to Habana, but I will just to illustrate my point. When there is no ball getting to the wingers, Habana goes looking for work, he forces his way into the game when the game won't come to him. Mvovo just disappears. And while Mvovo is a reasonable force on attack, but he is not a complete package in my opinion. My point, he is good, but I can say with some certainty that he will never be great. On the Ndungane's, they both played well this weekend, but ja, they are not going to be wearing a Bok jersey anytime soon.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 15:47
#9
09 Jul 2013, 15:47#9
Bluebok Not sure about Pietersen getting on - he will be 27 years old on Friday - so he should be in his prime as a rugby player. Incidentally - Habana also had a very average Super 15 - but everybody would have that with Jantjies and De Jongh on their inside.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2013, 16:50
#10
09 Jul 2013, 16:50#10
OOm34....you are definitely not equipped for the cut and thrust of repartee. For one thing your posts are way too long. You may enjoy writing them , but I guarantee nobody has a lower percentage read, to quote a useful stat, than you. - Also your command of the facts is abysmal, Mvovo botched the kickoff against the Bargies. Which only goes to show, you don't even remember what happened, but are on here dismissing it. Pathetic really. - Up your game and puleeze for the sake of your own sanity, stop predicting!!!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 17:14
#11
09 Jul 2013, 17:14#11
Mozart So I was wrong - it was a botch up of the ball in the game against Argentina - not Australia - that is career-defining insofar as you are concerned. I am very sorry I mentioned it was in the Aussie test. One incident in one test - and that is career-defining. What a joke. No reference to performances this year at all. In other words - a player early in his career make one of two mistakes and that is it insofar as you are concerned. No amount of good play thereafter counts for anything.. Mozart when will you ever learn not to judge players you don't like on single incidents incidence, while those you like can make continuous bugger-ups and be excused by you?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 17:23
#12
09 Jul 2013, 17:23#12
Bluebok You see now what I mean with Mozart. I was spot on about why Mvovo will forever be a failure in Mozart's book. That is why his contributions are so comical. They must always be taken as being the opposite of reality insofar as player performances are concerned.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2013, 17:23
#13
09 Jul 2013, 17:23#13
Thanks for admitting you were dead wrong.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 17:31
#14
09 Jul 2013, 17:31#14
Mozart The issue is not about me - it is your revolting idea to damn a player for a single incident in his career. You really are comical and one can only laugh about your way of trying ineffectually out of tight corners. Can you name any reasonable ground - other than that one incident why Mvovo is in your book a poor player?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2013, 20:33
#15
09 Jul 2013, 20:33#15
Taken apart by Digby Ioane....taken apart by the Crusaders wings in the London S15 match....stepped by de Jongh to win the CC. Need I go on?
MA
manceRookie63 posts
09 Jul 2013, 20:37
#16
09 Jul 2013, 20:37#16

Quite frankly, if a player is racing for the try line and I had a choice of Mvovo or Odwa to stop him, Odwa would get my vote anyday, as over the hill as he is. Mvovo is hesitant in contact.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 21:34
#17
09 Jul 2013, 21:34#17
Mozart Balls - Mvovo was miles away from De Jongh when he got that fluke try in the CC final. Dr Jongh should have been tackled by the loosies - Mvovo would have to cover too much ground to gt near him. Nice invention though - as stupid as most others of yours. The London match I never saw so I would not comment. And the Reds tries against the Sharks this year were all the result of massive overlaps. By the way I did a quick at random check of 6 games Mvov played in this year - inclusive of the Reds game - and found that Mvovo made 29 tackles in the 6 games and missed 3. That is a hell-of-a-lot better than the 28% missed tackle ratio of your hero De Jongh and better than what Aplon can even dream about. Single incident rubbish - one real one and two invented ones - but that is par for the course for Mozart. Crap flows like lava again from your mouth.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2013, 22:07
#18
09 Jul 2013, 22:07#18

 Wrong....de Jongh fended Daniel, gassed Coetzee and stepped Mvovo out of his socks. One, two....three....Currie Cup!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 22:37
#19
09 Jul 2013, 22:37#19
Mozart Still on the De Jongh mania? The gap De Jongh ran into was created for him by Catrakillis attacking the gain line and drawing in two defenders. If De Jongh could not go through that gap and score he would not be a centers backside - sorry he is that taking into account his tackle stats for this year. One of the worst centers in Super 15 this year - and you keep punting him. What a joke. .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 22:38
#20
09 Jul 2013, 22:38#20
Mozart Still on the De Jongh mania? The gap De Jongh ran into was created for him by Catrakillis attacking the gain line and drawing in two defenders. If De Jongh could not go through that gap and score he would not be a centers backside - sorry he is that taking into account his tackle stats for this year. One of the worst centers in Super 15 this year - and you keep punting him. What a joke. .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2013, 22:39
#21
09 Jul 2013, 22:39#21
Mozart Still on the De Jongh mania? The gap De Jongh ran into was created for him by Catrakillis attacking the gain line and drawing in two defenders. If De Jongh could not go through that gap and score he would not be a centers backside - sorry he is that taking into account his tackle stats for this year. One of the worst centers in Super 15 this year - and you keep punting him. What a joke. By the way there is no more than a 5% chance that any wing in the world would have been able to save the relevant try. Running from the wing position to the middle of the field with a player running straight towards the goal line and about 5 meters out - ask anybody and he would give you the same replay. Still inventing incidents - he? .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2013, 23:11
#22
09 Jul 2013, 23:11#22
The only person who is manic here is you....take your finger off the button, moron. But rather than argue with you, I'll just post the video link. At 0.20 of the recording de Jongh steps Mvovo out of his socks. QED - www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6XPeVJBps4
SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
09 Jul 2013, 23:58
#23
09 Jul 2013, 23:58#23

The Bargies test was due to failed tactics. Not a single player

 

As for the De Jongh try. He beat the first line due to a scissor with Catrikilis but then handed of Coetzee, sidestepped Mvovo and scored. 

 

There was no big gap he still had work to do and did it beautifully. Reminded me of the Scott Gibbs try vs England where he twinkle toed through the English defense

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2013, 01:35
#24
10 Jul 2013, 01:35#24
It was a brilliant try. Mvovo had actually moved to just behind the scrum, because van den Heever, his opponent, had moved behind Cat. He was in a perfect place to make an open field tackle, but was totally bamboozled by de Jongh.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2013, 01:41
#25
10 Jul 2013, 01:41#25
Just one thing - if I was Springbok selector - I would still have Mvovo in my team instead of the utterly useless De Jongh if I have a choice limited to those two.
SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
10 Jul 2013, 01:51
#26
10 Jul 2013, 01:51#26

What have Mvovo done to warrant a selection on the wing? 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2013, 02:40
#27
10 Jul 2013, 02:40#27
OOm34, Mvovo is a wing and de Jongh a centre.....it's really embarrassing that you would think they are alternatives.....but then you did think Francois Steyn is a flank. Perhaps a pill may help?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2013, 09:52
#28
10 Jul 2013, 09:52#28
Mozart Are you still on the clanger bit. A player needs not be international level player to be on the Springbok bench according to you when we discussed the really useless De Jongh previously? You must really be the most stupid rugby comment writer in the world to make such a statement. De Jongh's record on Super 15 level is the worst ever in Super 15 and the worst ever achievement of an international level center was achieved by him in last years Twickenham test. Shall I again give you De Jongh's points for the Super 15 this year? He is rated 37th on the list of centers this year performance wise. Since each team has two centers - he is even worse than most bench players of the Super 15 franchises. De Allende with half the playing time of De Jongh - has a much higher rating than useless De Jongh. May I remind you that his 28% missed tackle ratio is part of the problem with his rating as a Super 15 center. When I wrote the above I was thinking of the unthinkable - namely to have useless De Jongh or Mvovo on the bench for the Springboks - never ever should anyone with any logic see him in the starting line-up Even a dud like you cannot write him into the starting line up. I am not the one we are writing about - the players are you stupid old sod
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Jul 2013, 10:41
#29
10 Jul 2013, 10:41#29

Day after day, week after week it's the same old thing lately . . . ou Maaik schools Moffie on rugby matters; Moffie gets up off the floor looking confused; Moffie then dodges, ducks and lies; then he invariably exposes his laughable rugby ignorance and the whole process starts anew as ou Maaik schools him yet again.

 

Moffie's existence on this board is becoming a rather sad and pitiful routine . . . talk crap, get knocked down, get up, lie, talk crap, get knocked down again etc etc ad nauseum. Do the smart thing, Moffie . . . stay down!

 

LMAO!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2013, 11:25
#30
10 Jul 2013, 11:25#30
Rooinek You are probably correct about the schooling effort. However, I have a very soft spot for Mozart and my comments are often beyond the pale - so I am the one person that enjoys the presence of Saffex and Mozart on the Board. Both are entirely predictable - but both have great entertainment value. Matter of fact - I am missing Saffex already - no messages from him since Saturday. What a loss - wonder if anything is wrong with him. Hope not.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jul 2013, 12:17
#31
10 Jul 2013, 12:17#31

To be quite honest, looking at player analysis from Mozart and Clevermike, both have a tendency to be bias, all depending on whom they’re addressing on this board. It’s more designed to piss someone off hence their inaccuracies and never ending feud .

 

At times an interesting point is made but generally speaking they’re both boring and truth be told when these so called analysis are novel length I find myself looking for something else to read. I mean how many times does one want to read the same thing over and over and over again ? … in different posts.

 

Mozart is a stubborn old fart, who very rarely sees another’s point of view as better than his own. He is prepared to harp on about it for an eternity and that makes it unpleasant to try and debate with the lad.

 

Clevermike is also a stubborn old codger who’s also prepared to match Mozart at harping on and on … and at times I reckon he even surpasses him.

 

He regards himself as an highly intelligent man which I believe stems from a large chip on his shoulder. He certainly has tried his best to get all to see him as this so called "clever dick" however he at times forgets that it’s the content of one’s posts that impress fellow readers and not one’s name alone. 

 

I know a person who has a miniature doberman called "Killer" ... nuff said ... 

 

I very much doubt that these two are schooling anyone on this board … let alone each other.

 

 

It's a bore fest ... 

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2013, 16:16
#32
10 Jul 2013, 16:16#32
Odd that CC, I seem to recall "schooling" you just recently about Leonardo da Vinci, after which you did a deep dive! It can't be already, but yes it is, in one stroke......game, set and match!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2013, 23:56
#33
10 Jul 2013, 23:56#33

And once again we have the cowardly deep dive.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Jul 2013, 00:36
#34
11 Jul 2013, 00:36#34

Disagree Mvovo has been good and certainly better than the wings you mention. Rhule was great last year but has fallen flat this year in the defensive stakes. He needs to bulk up more and work on his defence.

 

He is quick and has a great step. Time is on his side

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jul 2013, 01:19
#35
11 Jul 2013, 01:19#35
Neither Rhule nor Mvovo will be a ripple in test rugby history....if Mvovo's credentials aren't established by now, they never will be.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Jul 2013, 02:24
#36
11 Jul 2013, 02:24#36

Agreed on Mvovo, he will never be a JP or Habana, but he has always been our best back-up wing to these two. 

 

He is far better than the likes of Nokwe, Ndungane x 2, Basson etc

 

Rhule has the raw material to be very good but he has some issues to work on - he is missing too many tackles for a start

SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
11 Jul 2013, 05:53
#37
11 Jul 2013, 05:53#37

 In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary come again Mozart?

 

Where did say Steyn is a flank. I know I said he looks like something that belongs at the side of the scrum because he got fat. 

 

Mvovo is shit. Corey Jane made a arse out him. Withou good chasers and defending wingers we are fucked. Until then you can forget about beating NZ

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
11 Jul 2013, 11:30
#38
11 Jul 2013, 11:30#38

Don’t flatter yourself old man. Cowardice is not something I’m prone to.

 

Especially not with a limp wristed old queen such as yourself standing before me with his hands on his hips.

 

What we have here is a lonely old man with nothing but a rugby message board to log into every day.  One who has done his damndest to convince all he comes across in cyberspace just how successful he is.

 

A closet queen who’s taken one too many up the ass over the last 70 years … having to use a rag of sorts to stop the slow ooze of many years of anal abuse soiling his undies.

 

Bitter. A meaningless life, where he once may have been attractive enough to lure some unknowing young boy into a toilet at the local railway station … now alone with the realization that his failed life is basically over and it’s just a matter of waiting the inevitable beckoning from beyond the grave.  

 

Just to let you know, poef, ducking and diving is also not something I’m in a habit of doing. Distorting the truth in an attempt to save face is also not part of my personality. While your eagerly awaiting my reply, I’m out with my wife enjoying prawns at Adega’s … with not a thought of the silly old fart awaiting my response on the message board.  

 

Like I said … schooling is something beyond you, Mozart!!! You have nothing to contribute anymore, but go ahead, keep telling yourself that you do, if it makes you feel better.  

 

I found it very amusing how your bum chum, Dense, suddenly found a little courage to challenge me on this board last week. The poor dear went off with his tail firmly tucked. A coward if ever there was one.

 

Just another cocksucker ... like you, Mozart.

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Jul 2013, 12:08
#39
11 Jul 2013, 12:08#39

Man this cc is a bitter twit. Up you game CC!

I think its clear Mvovo is not as good as Habna and JP our two best wings.However who will we pick if JP and Habana were not available (Jp will definitely not be available once in Japan). 

Jordaan and van der heever are possiblities along with Mvovo and Basson.

In my book Mvov is now a competent wing. Rhule is being seriously shown up. Poor on defence, poor under the high ball, does not get involved much and is perhaps not as fast as one may originally have thought. - Killian tracked him down running a diagonal line. 

 

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
11 Jul 2013, 13:13
#40
11 Jul 2013, 13:13#40

mvovo is sort of like ioane just a flat traxck runner. mvovo is lazy and too scared to defend the outside gap and cant catch a ball he cost the boks the away test last year in aussie land so i dont rate the guy at all. i dont think hes done anything at the sharks either.

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