- Australian teams dominated NewZealand Teams in this years Tournament= more wins than losses.
- South African teams dominated Australian Teams in this years Tournament= More wins than losses.
Does this mean that the easiest conference is actually NewZealand?
You mean like the Reds dominated the Crusaders and the Cheetahs dominated the Brumbies?...........I thought so.
Moola both those games were on offs finals rugby, and both had home game advantage.
Hard to say that the Brumbies deserved to win- even Michael Lynagh said on Sky Sports that they were very lucky.
Throughout the tournament Australian teams have beat more NewZealand teams.
As with South Africa beating more Australian sides than losing.
Polyboy the arguement is for a tournament of allmost 20 rounds, not a one off game.
South Africa had 4 out of the top 8 teams.
This was due to dominating the Australians. Then the Australians dominating NewZealand teams.
Having teams that make up the lower level of the competiton within a local conference is more chance of picking up easy wins- and the 5 points from this
Like the Kings and the fact that a SA side finishes last nearly every year in the S15?
@Moola the Kings finished equal to the Highlanders with 3 wins.
It is just the bonus points of their conference which main them finish with more points.
The defences of SA and Australian teams in derbies are tigher affairs- and therefore less chance of a bonus point for 4 tries.
@Polyboy- it was just last year that Sasuke said SA had 3 teams in the top6 due to having an easier conference, with the Stormers finishing first last year.
This thread actually continues from that old thread. Having an easier conference makes it easier to finish first in the tournament.
I also wanted to see the Kiwi reaction to the same thread but applied to this year!
spXV 2013
NZ two top teams in the top 4.
SA wooden spoon (13th from 18 tournaments)
SA have during super rugby monpolised 50% of the bottom three placings.
nuff said, :oP
@Sasuke you are correct
But you must remember here in SA we like to fight among ourselves and we are not playing our top 150 players in the competition unlike NZ with their centralized contracting sysem.
Sasuke, you are not answering the question, namely the NewZealand conference being the easiest in "2013".
Your are just spouting of some very old data- The old days are gone when South Africa had the difficult tours.
Now days it is not an equal tour, but not as unequal as it was before.
As soon as this happened, South African teams done better right away.
Since 2007, the Bulls have been the best team in the SuperXV- (3 out of 6 SuperXV titles.)
No wonder the Crusaders and Chiefs made the top 4, they were playing 2 games against the likes of Highlanders, Canes and to some degree the Blues.
The Highlanders and Canes just leak tries so it is a guaranteed 10 pointer from them.
Australian and SA derbies are tight affairs.
The Highlanders and Canes just play sill rugby throwing the ball around in their own 22- and they wonder why so many tries are scored against them.
If Australia got the better of New Zealand and South Africa got the better of Australia, the only logical explanation that 2 New Zealand teams got into the top4 is because of a weaker local conference.
@sharkbok,
regarding comments,,,
"Sasuke, you are not answering the question, namely the NewZealand conference being the easiest in "2013". "
have u forgotten the australian conference???
"Your are just spouting of some very old data-"
ok two things -
1) sprouting old data says the dude talking about the bulls back in 2007??? o_O (which was wrong BTW but will get to laters)
2) its not old data, its fact about the 2013 spXV, NZ had two teasm in the top 4, SA finshed with the wooden spoon, these are irrefutable facts.
"Now days it is not an equal tour, but not as unequal as it was before. As soon as this happened, South African teams done better right away."
last time i checked, SA still hasnt won a spXV title, while NZ remain the only conferecne to have had at least two teams come the semi final stages.
say what u want, but some teams have a much better chance of making the play offs in this format then in others, hence the cheetahs making the finals for the first time in thier history even though during round robbin play they never once faced the crusaders or the brumbies.
weve had this argument before but bookmark this thread right now, cos the cheetahs wont make the top 6 next year guranteed.
"Since 2007, the Bulls have been the best team in the SuperXV- (3 out of 6 SuperXV titles.)"
(loud exasperated sigh) ^_^
bulls have never won a single spXV title, they have won three spXIV titles.
as it stands, the brumbies and bulls are playing in the semifinals for the first time ever, the crusaders are in thier thrid semi finals with one grand final appearnce and the chiefs have won a title and playing in thier 2nd spXV semifinal.
if the crusaders win, the become the most succesful spXV team to date.
if the bulls or brumbies win, the chiefs become the most successful spXV team to date.
if the chiefs win, well u know the deal.
"No wonder the Crusaders and Chiefs made the top 4, they were playing 2 games against the likes of Highlanders, Canes and to some degree the Blues. The Highlanders and Canes just leak tries so it is a guaranteed 10 pointer from them.
chiefs v highlanders twice in 2013, walked away with two wins and one bonus point.
chiefs v hurricanes twice in 2013, walked away with two wins and one bonus point.
crusaders v highlanders twice in 2013, walked away with two wins and one bonus point.
crusaders v hurricanes twice in 2013 walked away with one win and two bonus point. thier win over the hurricanes had no 4try bonus points.
these facts are easy to check and would help big time, unless guranteed means something different to saffa from kiwis.
"Australian and SA derbies are tight affairs. If Australia got the better of New Zealand and South Africa got the better of Australia, the only logical explanation that 2 New Zealand teams got into the top4 is because of a weaker local conference."
LMAO, :oD
oh wait ur serious, o_O
ok the saffa derbies are tight affairs, ive never doubted that, but the OZ conference come on, results are undeniable and the proof is in the pudding, so u more then have a leg to stand on with ur arguments, but to say "If Australia got the better of New Zealand and South Africa got the better of Australia, the only logical explanation that 2 New Zealand teams got into the top4 is because of a weaker local conference." thats just plain stupid, yes OZ finally got the better of NZ teams this year, but SA v NZ was 50% which u conviently left out, how one conference A performas against confernce B has no bearing on confernce C.
by ur logic, the Boks are better then the All Blacks cos they beat england, even though the All blacks white washed the crap out of the Boks.
my arguments before was that NZ was the hardest conference, but after all is been said and done, SA do deserve that title, but to say NZ is the weakes, pfffft, what ever.
food for thoguht NZ teams have had to play each other twice and NZ conference has for every spXV semi final produced at least tow of the four teams, thats equal to both the SA and OZ conference combined.
jeez, 50% of all teams in the semis have been kiwis??? o_O
i take it back, NZ is the hardest conference, :o)
Even if you were right sharkie, the way the chiefs and saders have been playing in the second half of the comp it wouldn't matter much who was in their conference. Aus and SA dodged a bullet today with the brumbies win, it could have quite easily been an all kiwi grand final this year.
2011 Currie Cup champs - Lions
2009 CC finalist - Cheetahs
2012 Sharks were beaten by the Lions.
In fact Lions did not get smashed by any team in SR.
One can look at it from a NZ point of view and see the Lions as a away game one can win as they are the most vital.
Away games in your home country is not really away games as compared to going overseas playing the Aussie and Kiwi teams.
the fact is we can argue all the pros and cons but there is no real way to find out which conf is easier or not. due to lob sided games and draws playing a huge factor in who plays who and when there can be now way to say which is stronger than the other.
in terms of rugby quality i do admit the nz boys might pip it for me only due to there intensity levels and game pattern but the SA conf is m or direct and more demanding on the body. the aussie conf is a bit in the middle for me neither not there but due to this current rubbish format nobody will know who is better or not. sad to say but its true
Our teams get mugged by officials every year when they go overseas
Our Top2 teams have horrific injuries and also issues with game plans and player form.
I still think that if the Sharks and Stormers had played to their potential they would have made the playoffs. (finished 7th and 8th respectively)
SA are the only conference with 4 teams that could have made the knock out finals stage.
2011 spXV
semifinalists
NZ - crusaders, blues
SA - stormers
OZ - reds
2012 spXV
semifinalists
NZ - crusaders, chiefs
SA - stormers, sharks
2013 spXV
semifinalists
NZ - crusaders, chiefs
SA - bulls
OZ - brumbies
every spXV so far has seen NZ make up 50% of the final four, SA nad OZ are very lucky not to be in NZs conference, clearly the hardest conference of the three, :oP
Sasuke, the question is this year.
How could the NewZealand conference be the strongest in 2013 when they finished on average the worst overall between all teams.
Australia got the better of NewZealand winning more games, and SA got the better of Australia.
Bottom line is that NewZealand teams have lost the most games out of all 3 conferences- FACT!
The Crusaders have been poor for most of the season, until coming into top form for the last few games.
I think the Crusaders are lucky they even made the playoffs and can thank their weak conference of hasbeats- Highlanders, Hurricanes and to some degree the Blues.
Bottom line is that NewZealand teams have lost the most games out of all 3 conferences- FACT!
@sharkbok,
crusaders have been poor mnost of the season, WTF???
if hadnt been for the rule which says that the leader of the three conferences are automatically given top three positions on the ladder, it would have been the crusdaers making upo the thrid team in the top 3 and not the brumbies.
crusaders and brumbies both finished on 60 points and had the same number of wins, but the crusaders points diff was better.
and u need to get ur facts checked, cos the hurricanes and blues both beat the crusaders this year, while SA conference leaders and only SA team in the semis got rugby raped 41-19, im sure the bulls would are very thankful theyre not facing the crusaders in the smeis, but it seems that its a matter of bad news or bad news for the bulls, cos IMO they wont beat the crusaders at home or away, and they wont be the cheifs at home.
is it surprisiung that NZ are now starting to struggle now that they have to face each other twice in one season??? the correlation between the two tells all IMO.
the bottomline is, NZ has two teams in the semifinals again, FACT.
The Crusaders is the most dangerous team in the comp. They can take on any side anywhere and beat them with their own game. Especially if Carter is fit. Love watching them. NZ conference can't be weaker as they play their top 150 players in it all the time unlike SA.
@sharbok,
my my my, three years and a saffa team has only made it to one final, how forutnate ur countrys spXV franchises dont play in the NZ conference.
one might also think that with australia making two of the three finals that SA has the weakest conference, but matters such as those are trifle and beneath me, i have more important things to worry about, like the chiefs defending their spXv title, the All Blacks defending their 100% RC/4nats record, and of course our No1 status in rugby.
i envy u sharkbok, for not having a NZ rugby fans responsibility, one wonders what u saffa fans do with so much free time on ur hands, i would find it hard to believe the blame the ref obligations that u all have could take up that much time.
ps: crusaders in christchurch is the hardest place to play rugby in the spXV, after all, they are the only team with a 100% record their in 2013.
