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FORUM / RUGBY /  Its time for the world to stand up to this

Its time for the world to stand up to this

Started by Beeno114 REPLIES438 VIEWS· 15 Apr 2014, 00:30
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Apr 2014, 00:30
#1
15 Apr 2014, 00:30#1

I expect the kiwis and ozzies especially to arrange protests. Also the 6 nations etc.

Time to raise a din against the anc racism.

What say the kiwis? 


Cape Town - The SA Rugby Union (SARU) will meet with sports minister Fikile Mbalula to get more clarity on the government's new transformation policy.

Mbalula recently threatened to withdraw national teams from competing internationally when he said athletics, cricket, football, netball and rugby are falling behind with transformation and development.

He wants to see 60% black representation in teams and warned of harsh punishment if there was any form of resistance to these measures.

If any resistance was met, Mbalula said, government could withdraw funding to bodies that fail to comply, withdraw national colours to federations holding back, rule that utilising bidding and hosting regulations to be illegal, de-register any body which fails to transform and bar sponsorship to anyone hostile to transformation.

However, several sporting codes - including rugby - were unsure as to what Mbalula meant when he said the requirement would come into effect "immediately".

According to the Rugby365 website, SARU hopes to get more clarity on the subject at a "report back meeting" on Monday - where the minister and the Eminent Persons Group, who has monitored national federations, will be present.

Among the questions raised were whether the minister was insisting on 13 black players in Super Rugby squads with immediate affect and the Springboks from June.

Mbalula said the resolutions of the recent meeting had to be implemented before the new government administration took office after the May 7 general elections.

This could see the government preventing the Springboks from taking to the field against a World XV and Wales in June if there are not 13 black/non-white players in the squad.

Hopefully Monday's meeting will shed more light on when the minister expects these drastic changes to take place...

HAVE YOUR SAY: Will the 'quota' issue in SA sport ever be resolved? Is there any point in even trying to do so? Send your thoughts to Sport24.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Apr 2014, 00:31
#2
15 Apr 2014, 00:31#2
 Maybe get this info on nz and other sports forum and get some protest going?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
15 Apr 2014, 01:00
#3
15 Apr 2014, 01:00#3
 Beeno: when are the elections going to be over?
This may see the issue die down again.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Apr 2014, 01:11
#4
15 Apr 2014, 01:11#4
7th May 2014 is election day. Maybe but maybe not. 
Nevertheless if they go through with this there should be international protest and action. Ditto workplace/educational discrimination against minorities.

NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 02:34
#5
15 Apr 2014, 02:34#5
 The sanctions on South Africa should have never been lifted in the first place so my attitude to this "new" development is the same as it has been all along. 
CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
15 Apr 2014, 22:29
#6
15 Apr 2014, 22:29#6
Racism brings more Racism. It's the worst thing this world has seen. If it's ingrained into a society it will never leave. Some of the Afrikaners were as racist as they come. What did you guys expect to happen after 94? For all the blacks to run over and give you a big hug?

I'm not saying what's happening is exactly right. But you can't deny that some of these people have just a little reason to be upset.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
15 Apr 2014, 23:11
#7
15 Apr 2014, 23:11#7

canrugby

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 632 RE: Its time for the world to stand up to this
April 15, 2014, 20:29:56 Racism brings more Racism. It's the worst thing this world has seen. If it's ingrained into a society it will never leave. Some of the Afrikaners were as racist as they come. What did you guys expect to happen after 94? For all the blacks to run over and give you a big hug?

I'm not saying what's happening is exactly right. But you can't deny that some of these people have just a little reason to be upset. 
Were you in SA? Have you had first hand  experience of this? Fact is that the world  who were crying anti-racism, anti-oppression, anti-this,  anti-that, are now  awfully quiet about what is going on. Why? Because  they have no vested interest about it.

I can run down a list of what has gone right under the so-called Apartheid Govt and I could  give you a hell  of a list of what has gone right. I can also give you a hell of a list of what has gone wrong under the ANC and I can guarantee you that the list of  ANC wrongs would  outweigh the wrongs of  the previous govt by a  mile. I am by now means trying to condone the wrongs of Apartheid but it seems to me  that people like you seem to condone the wrongs of the ANC.

The fact is that the majority of  people in SA are far worse of today than what they were pre 1994, and that is a fact. The sad reality is  that the poor are getting poorer and poorer and service delivery is way beyond where it used to be. I can tell what I have seen myself. My mother used to be a ward sister in the "Black" wards in the local  provincial hospital in the 60s. Those wards were always spotlessly clean and the treatment of the Blacks were no different from those of  the Whites. The difference was that it cost them next to nothing and in many cases it cost them nothing. I have seen that with my own eyes. I was in those wards on  many occasions.

The education system is down the tubes. Back in the day your matriculation certificate (with university exemption) gave you access to uni. Today the universities do not recognise school leaving certificates. They have to write an entry exam, despite the matriculation certificate. Even the dreaded Bantu Education matriculation certificate granted you access to the University. Nelson Mandela was a lawyer when he was arrested. He went to a school for Blacks  and studied at the University of Fort Hare with the likes of Kaizer Matanzima and Oliver Tambo. He did his law studies at the University of Witwatersrand (Wits) which has always, even in the Apartheid years, been a multiracial university. (Apart from Wits there were a number of universities, such Fort Hare mentioned above) that catered for Blacks. The idea  that they were denied education is the biggest load of bullshit ever.

These are a few famous Blacks who have studied  at Wits (note that Wits is in Johannesburg in a former "White Area", so despite the Group Areas Act, Blacks still had access to it):

  1. Nelson Mandela, the first President of South Africa to be elected in fully representative democratic elections.
  2. Natan Gamedze, Swazi Prince, Supreme Court Translator and Orthodox Rabbi.
  3. Tshilidzi Marwala, academic, businessman and political theorist
  4. Ahmed Kathrada, politician, anti-apartheid activist and political prisoner.
  5. Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, ex-wife of Nelson Mandela.
  6. Eduardo Mondlane, the father of Mozambican independence.
  7. Mamphela Ramphele, academic, businesswoman, medical doctor and anti-apartheid activist.
  8. Robert Sobukwe, A South African political dissident, who founded the Pan Africanist Congress in opposition to the apartheid regime.
  9. Essop Pahad, Anti-apartheid activist and politician
  10. Moshoeshoe Monare, Editor of The Sunday Independent
  11. Kuben Naidoo, Adviser to the governor of the South African Reserve Bank
  12. Gwede Mantashe, A South African politician, holding posts of ANC secretary general and chairperson of the South African Communist Party
  13. Achille Mbembe, philosopher and political scientist, staff member at Wits Institute for Social and Economic Research
  14. Thulas Nxesi, Minister of Public Works.

Those are only the  ones who went into politics. There are loads of others. All of them got university entry through the evil Apartheid  Bantu Education Schools.

As I said, I am by no means condoning anything that went wrong under Apartheid. All I am saying is  that there are many things that are far worse now than what it was under Apartheid.

The sad part is that the same  people who were "suffering" under Apartheid are still suffering under the ANC, i.e. the poorer and the poorest of the  Black community, and those poorer and poorest Blacks are proportionally more than they what they were in teh Apartheid  days and even sadder is that they are worse off than what they were  in those days.

For those people, their so-called political freedom brought them bugger all and in addition, that political freedom came at a price.
CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
16 Apr 2014, 00:01
#8
16 Apr 2014, 00:01#8
I did say; "I'm not saying what's happening is exactly right."

And no, I'm not in SA and never have been. I don't think I came across pretending that I was either. Although I do understand, and know, a lot of what you're talking about. My wife and her family were there until 95 when they left for Canada. Some of her family are still living there. (Joburg)

I will say this. It was going to get worse before it got better. I've always thought in the back of my mind that getting rid of Apartheid was the best and worst thing for SA. It's going to take a long time to get it right...
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Apr 2014, 00:07
#9
16 Apr 2014, 00:07#9
 It didn't have to take that long. In fact, it did not even have to "get worse before it got better". Everything was in place. The Education systems and health systems were in place. The public service was in place. The infrastructure was  there. They, the ANC, were not patient enough to learn how to run the country. They wanted to jump in and immediately change everything, for no reason. Most of all, however, was their (the upper echelons') greed to immediately jump in and grab as much money as possible. They kicked out most of much needed expertise and replaced them with clowns who had no idea WTF was going on.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
16 Apr 2014, 00:17
#10
16 Apr 2014, 00:17#10
@canrugby, 
Unless you are a red Indian you are not indigenous to Canada - and therefore you are also a colonist. 
It is all well and good to sit on your ethical high horse and talk about democracy, majority and equality rule- when you have been able to outvote the indigenous population long before "giving them the right" to vote. 
Why didn't the original colonists give the red Indians a vote, when the the Red Indians were the majority in Canada ?
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
16 Apr 2014, 00:30
#11
16 Apr 2014, 00:30#11
 Beeno... I totally agree.If the international community is not yet aware of this matter then it needs to be notified.Also if there is a court of international human rights this surely must be a violation.I do how ever think it is a matter of scare tactics by the ANC to the lay man and to gain vote from the common man living in rural SA.It actually just proves the disposition of the ANC.I am not sure what the political vibe these days are with the locals in SA regarding the ANC,but the next election must be crucial for them.If they win and this is the case we face then we might see some very nasty things happen.Maybe civil war. A war I am not in favor of.War doesnt solve anything.Trust me,I have seen it in Afghan.Not going to elaborate,but the dominating factors are never truly change/over powered by war,no matter what fire power you have.Anyway. In the racist que...Fakile Mbalula stand sin front of me LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
16 Apr 2014, 03:56
#12
16 Apr 2014, 03:56#12
@sharkbok

Are you implying that atrocities a certain country commits make it okay for another to?

If you want to start a thread on Canada screwing over the Aboriginals then by all means.... I have some knowledge on the topic, and find it sickening what the government did for the last 100 years.

I will say this and then leave this topic alone because I full well know I'm not as knowledgeable as some of you on it.
The ANC is not helping anything right now. But you can't say apartheid did. C'mon. That was pure bullshit and you all know it.


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
16 Apr 2014, 04:40
#13
16 Apr 2014, 04:40#13
@canrugby, no I am saying you are being a hypocrite by applying double standards.
We all know that the historical invasion by Colonists was wrong in all countries, that could be another debate. I am talking about applying a system of judgement that you have not used yourself.

You were only prepared to give indigenous people a vote when they (red indians) were totally outnumbered by a majority of alien colonists. What good is that? 
The reason you never gave the natives the right to vote is that they would have all voted that the colonists leave Canada to where ever they came from. This was a rhetorical question, as the answer is obvious.

At least South Africa gave voting rights to everyone, even when it meant that the colonists were going to be outvoted by indigenous people. It did take a long time, but at least it happened. In thousands of years time, history will show this to be better than most other colonies. (Albeit less worse is still terrible)
This is a related thread on the same topic. The basic theme is that the other colonist countries are happy to impose sanctions and be hypocritical. They are not dealing with the same situation- of the colonists being the minority. How would they have dealt with this situation? Human nature shows that people are not eager to give up wealth and power- for anybody or anything
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Apr 2014, 13:05
#14
16 Apr 2014, 13:05#14
Good post windpomp. 
The anc has been a disaster. Give this country a decent government and we could go places given the inherent wealth and the talent that is available. 
Given the condition of the rest f Africa, apartheid has been used as a convenient excuse. Hower nearly 20 years on that weak excuse is wearing thin. Black billionair tenderpreneurs are the ones who have really scored. It is truly disgusting. 
Ronnie Kastrills, an anc stalwart and former minister, is calling for anc supporters to boycott the elections. Tutu wont vote anc any more. Away with this rotten bunch. We need far better.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Apr 2014, 13:11
#15
16 Apr 2014, 13:11#15
 Merit is the only way top go and the only policy the world at alrge accepts. Some good sense from Keo:

Transformation is in the quality of the player and not always in his colour, writes MARK KEOHANE inBusiness Day.

At a time when the sports minister talks about black numbers and black playing percentages, let’s rather talk about performance.

At a time when the sports minister talks of transformation in a threatening tone, let’s talk about it as a good-news story in our rugby.

At a time when the sports minister again equates transformation to a numbers game, let’s equate transformation to the quality of performance.

Let’s talk about Sibusiso Camagu Thokozani Sithole, the 23-year-old Sharks outside centre and a product of Queen's College.

Sithole was brilliant against the Lions. He was the Man of the Match and his performance rightly earned rave reviews.

He is a rugby player who just happens to be black. For too long in this country black rugby players are seen first to be black. The rugby is an afterthought.

Sithole is a rugby player. Just like team-mates Lwazi Mvovo and Odwa Ndungane. That they happen to be black aids the development of the game in taking it to a greater audience, but being black is not what defines this trio, as just one example among the black players in Super Rugby.

They’re darn fine rugby players, who chose rugby as their preferred sport choice and were good enough to make a profession of their passion.

Sithole is a gifted rugby player who has an appreciation for the nuances of attack. He uses awareness to attack space and he uses instinct as much as he does structure.

He is a breath of fresh air to the South African rugby landscape, but not because he is black but because of how he plays.

One performance will not be the making of him and there is no guarantee he will play for the Springboks. He has the characteristics of a Springbok, but then so do many midfielders in this country.

Jean de Villiers, Jaque Fourie, Frans Steyn, Jan Serfontein, Juan de Jongh, JJ Engelbrecht and Paul Jordaan would all rank more immediate national choices than Sithole.

Sithole is good and that is what has to be applauded. He must be allowed to play and prosper without the necessity to want to fast-track him into a national set-up based on his skin colour. That would be a disservice to his pedigree as a player who impresses with his ability to play the game.

The politicians among sports administration and within government structures in this country conveniently play a numbers game to benefit a particular agenda. Rugby players just want to play a game.

There is a national election pending; hence the four-year focus on transformation in sport in South Africa; hence the talk of black-playing percentages at a national level.

What there should be is the celebration of performance because transformation is measured through opportunity and the consequent performance. No professional player wants a hand-out and no player wants to doubt his selection.

Jake White, as director of rugby of the Sharks, picked a starting XV that he felt best suited to defeating the Lions in Johannesburg. It was his view that Mvovo’s pace was unmatched as a fullback option, that JP Pietersen was unrivalled as one winger and that Ndungane’s experience in his 100th Super Rugby game was a necessity. It was also his view that Sithole, at outside centre, had X factor.

When White picked a teenager named Frans Steyn to debut on the wing against Ireland in Dublin in 2006 he boasted that Steyn would become one of the world’s best players.

Steyn was not white and Afrikaans speaking. He was just a brilliant young rugby talent. Similarly a youthful Schalk Burger, when White picked him to start in 2004 against Ireland.

White saw rugby players in 2004 and he sees rugby players today. It is one of his strengths.

The Sharks, in beating the Lions, consolidated their position as the leading team in this season’s Super Rugby competition. At least for now, given they are yet to travel abroad.

The Sharks were also the only South African team to win in the last fortnight with Steyn, Sithole, Mvovo and a host of forwards responsible for their victory.

There is no need for national despair because of indifferent Super Rugby performances from regions outside of the Sharks. The Springboks will be strong because of the player pool available to national coach Heyneke Meyer.

The failure of the Cheetahs and Stormers and the limitations of the Bulls and Lions, as Super Rugby play-off contenders, should not be confused with a national team or a national game in any sort of crisis.

Our rugby is not in crisis and transformation is happening.

Mvovo and Sithole, as an example, combining to win a game has more substance than forcing a coach to pick 10 black players who aren’t good enough to influence the outcome.

Transformation is in the quality of the player and not always in his colour.

Sithole and Mvovo, just by the way they play the game, transform the South African rugby landscape.

— END OF THREAD —

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