What do you think the Bok Management's plan are with Taute at 13? Will it be for just this test? I think they might just convert him (in long term) from fullback to outside centre, just like Jacque Fourie converted??
I do believve that Taute had a good game today - he fit in neatly into the backline - and maybe through over-eagerness knocked on the ball - when Pienaars penalty hit the posts and bounced back. As far as I am concerned he did well enough to be in the Springbok backline and made one very good linebreak. I do not think there is a problem with his positio in the Springbok squad.
I am going to be nasty and say that the Springbok backline today put up an extremely good show - most probably due to Goosen's play as well as the thinking game played by De Villiers - but I have a real problem with one issue that would affect Taute's immediate future. That is whether Francois Steyn would be able to fit into the backline and perform as well as De Villiers did today.
We will not have to wait very long. Next week Francois will be back and De Villiers moved to outside center. If Steyn is a problem - then he will inevitably be replaced by De Villiers and Taute will be back at center.
Taute was solid. Jean Devilliers played exceptionally well today outside Goosen. However would Frans Steyn also play as well outside Goosen? Maybe. Devillers is a stronger runner than Frans Steyn so could be more suited to outside center. Wonder what Meyer will do for selection next week.
Based on what i saw Taute didn't really make an impact in this backline at all, we need him at fullback. JP pietersen is the real answer at outside centre and always has been. JP is more effective with ball in hand and has great defence. But we will see Ma'a Nonu completely knock Taute over. BANG!
lucid how have JP been the answer at outside centre if he played wing for the boks?
Bok -Bef$K Well i've seen him play outside centre for the sharks a few times hes the real deal, he certainly has what it takes to became a world class outside centre.
Perswonally I believe the experiment to play JP Pietersen at 13 was not really a success and he was very average in that position. The player that made Pietersen shine in the later Super 15 games this year was in fact Jordaan. Personally looking at the game today - I believe Jordaan would have done better than Taute did. There is a huge difference between thse two players - Jordaan is a more intelligent player - Taute is more reliant on physical strength.
I believe that they should keep Pietrsen on wing and not gamble by playing him at 13. Affter all he and Habana are probably at this stage the best wings in the world. Leave them there - there is no need to move him to 13. I would really put Jordaan on the bench and not De Jongh and give him more playing time. With Jordaan in that position and Habana and Pietersen on the wings - there really would be some fun and games.
As stated previously looking at todays game, the player under threat is really Francois Steyn. If he fails to perform in a fast-moving game, Meyer is likely to move De Viilliers to 12 and for the end of year tour he is likely to take both Taute and Jordaan on board. In fact I hope he does.
I'd far rather have Taute at 13, than Fransie at 12. The backline has more spark and frankly better defence in this mode. Our centres made a combined 15 tackles today and missed none. Jean gained 55 metres and Taute 20......keep this combination for next week.
Frans should play 15 for the Boks. That's the only way to further improve on today's team!
Probably right Draad
Fair enough mike, i do tend to agree on alot what you have to say but puting everything in perspective im gonna disagree entirely. JP is not an ordinary winger that has speed to burn, hes a player i would like to see at outside centre permanently, hougaard can be in his primary postion on the wing instead.
I'd just like to hear your opinion based on the videos im gonna list below, keep in mind most of these great breaks hes making is in centre feild, but he is actaully playing wing which is not needed.
youtube.com/watch?v=YBSqVPJMS0A
youtube.com/watch?v=CnITEmfBjPk
i wasnt really that sold on taute for the Boks TBH. i found he had a lot of nerves and dosent seem to play his best rugby when not demanding the ball or setting up counter attack plays like he does at the lions. it might have to do with the fact that hjes a jr surrounded by seniors and that usually keeps the younger generation a little bit more reserved, especially ion their first handful of tests, but be that as it may, i would put francois straight back into the team if available, but at 13, not 12.
JDV is the Boks best 12, or at least he was yesterday, a powerful performance and while frnacois hasnt played his usual top game, hes still francois steyn and should be given more chances to roll, especiallwith goosen inside of him who is making the world difference for the Boks attack, if not their goal kicking woes, lolz.
@clevermike,
i know we are on oppisite sides of the fence with the jp at 13 argument, but i really think its going to happen and a lot sooner then i originally thought.
jj and taute to me had similar games, not very effective, basically doing the basics right.
JDV is playing on borrowed time, its a matter of time before he is gone and francois steyn becoems the undisputed 12 incumbent, this leaves a hole at 13 which i feel meyer is going to fill with jp.
IMO taute and to a lesser extent englebrecht will for the forseeable future make the Boks starting XV when injuries in the backline are an issue, otherwise they will be on the bench and at the moment, taute has the clear preferential lead.
if the Boks had all their players fit and available, this would be my Boks backline,,,,
9 r pienaar, 10 j goosen, 11 b habana, 12 JDV, 13 jp pieterson, 14 f hougaard, 15 f steyn
20 p lambie, 21 j taute, 22 englebrecht / de jong
im also not convinced that hougaards time at halfback is done either, i would love for the chance to see hougaard and goosen workm together.
the main difference i see between the Boks last two performances and the rest of their test matches, is that their forwards actually showed up to play, instead of their usual look im a paper weight perfomrance.
will be very interesting to see how meyer goes forward with this Boks team, it really is his to screw up, but im liking the Boks immediate and long term future at the moment.
Sasue
I am not sure about some issues in the backline at all. I think that Pienaar, Goosen, De Villiers (for the time being) and Habana are the only real certainties with Pietersen (after his return from injury) are the players certain of selection in the backline. Francoi Steyn may make he grade or may not.
The question is whether he an fit into the type of game played yesterday. There is a degree of similarity between the way he and Taute play - both rely heavily on physical strength and not so much on clever play. Taute yesteday was obviously a bit nervous about his role in the tream. His game can be summarized as good on defence and he was reasonably good in attack as well - he made a clean line break at one stage.
Francois Steyn in France and in the tests thus fr this year - played a type of game that often lead to crashballing and consequential mauls. That may not be what Meyer ultimately wants tio see and we shall see what happens this coming Saturday. If the backline play deteriorates when he is in the 12 position - there will be serious question marks as to whether he should be in the team in that position. I am not saying for certain that he will not fit in - I am really saying the jury is out on that one.
Insofar as Engelbrecht is concerned - he has spoiled his copybook in the CC games played in since his return to provincial CC rugby. His defence and attacking abilities wias really not up to standard. In the meantime Jordaan is playing cracker games every weekend - so Meyer is unlikely to keep ignoring him for selection.
Insofar as this year is concerened I believe that Meyer will persist with playing Goosen between two experienced players - until he has gained more experience. Pienaar was superb yesterday and there is no way that he would be moved by Meyer and replaced by Hougaard. So that is a given. De Villiers will for the next 18 months or so remain as a certainty in the backline. After that he will be removed. That would give Goosen a some tn tests to settle in - remember he is a 20 year-old crying when the national anthem was sung yesterday and was clearly a bit unsettled earlier in the game.
Insofar as the alternatives are concerned - Jordaan can play at 12,13 or on the wing. He is likely to come into the picture at one stage or another. There is no real need for Pietersen to be moved to 13 - there are other options available. In the longer term there are various scenarios available - Meyer may either play Steyn or Taute at full back - where both played initially earlier in their playing careers on provincial level. On the other hand Steyn may be kept at 12 if he shows he can fit to play there in terms of the game plan as played yesterday. If thst does not happen - he may over the next 18 months bring Jordaan in at 12 - where he played well for the Sharks in the Super 15 final. If Steyn shows that he can fit in at 12 - he may decide to play Jordaan at 13. It is unlikely that he would move Pietersen from the wing to that position.
All in all I think that Meyer will experiment with certain combinations in the end of year tour and may watch the Super 15 games next year - setting the stage for more final selections in the Championship next year..
Sorry - duplication
@Sasuke Nice backline, it really doesn't get any better than that. Frans is more comfortable at fullback and always has been a better fullback than kirchner really.
@Lucid Spot on about JP!
Draad you spot on! Frans at 15 or on the bench!
The weekend showed that crashball Steyn and Kick Steyn are the thorn in the backline.
my backline for the AB's - 15. Steyn 14. Habanna 13. Taute 12. De Villiers 11. Hougaart 10. Goosen 9. Pienaar with Lambie and de Jongh on the bench.
my ideal backline 2013 15. Willie le Roux 14. Habanna 13 Jordaan 12. Taute 11 JP 10. Goosen 9. Pienaar with Frans Steyn / Lambie and Hougaart on the bench.
Mrdebbs
I really like your ideal backline - I especially like Le Rouz at full back. However, I differ from you in one respect and that is I would rather play Jordaan at 12 and Taute at 13. Jordaan had a great game at 12 against the Chiefs in the Super 15 final. He is a more thinking and creative player than Taute and will create more opportunities for Taute and the wings to exploit
The backline that we currently have now is pretty much almost complete perfection. Its just 13 and 15 that meyer needs to look closely now. I Believe meyer does precisely give players enough time for improvement before he makes a change, Morne ufortunately didn't improve so changes was made. That being said i think its just a matter of time we'll see changes being made again. Kirchner didn't really have a bad game. It was a decent performance, we rearly see it. I think he needs to join the backline more when we are on attack, like he did before. Thats when he has a relatively good game, 'The idea of a attacking fullback'. Getting involved with the backline is just that.
I've actually changed my mind about Lambie at fullback, if you have a look at the try that Aus scored, Lambie didn't even attempt to tackle mike harris, not only that but it was a perfect time to intercept when Beale passed to Harris. Just poor defending overall, i'd much prefer Taute Frans Steyn at fullback also Kirchner ( If he continues to play well like he did.)
Lucid
Sorry I disagree wih you. There was very little Lambie could do once Hougaard missed the tackle on Beale. There were a two on one overlap and as you said the only chance was an intercept - but that is very unlikely and virtually impossible under such circumstances. Lambie had no option but to try and tackle Beale and was on his way to do just that - which left the two players outside of Beale a clear opening to the tryline.
The main fault lies with Hougaard - not Lambie in this case. The try could have been prevented by a good tackle by Hougaard on Beale - which would then have the opportunity for further defenders to come into line and prevent the overlap. All in all there is no chance that one defender can defend in a situation of three players coming towards him with an open tryline in front of them.
'Virtually impossisble' thats a tough statement to make, JDV and Habana has made some successful interceptions in a that situation, so i do think its quite possible, but Lambie is not capabile of doing that so it is very unlikely yes, impossible no. Imagine if Beale didn't pass, despite harris going for the try, what is the realistic chance of Lambie making a try saving tackle on Beale? I just dont see it happening, hes like a kid playing on the feild.
Just to let you know mike Lambie is not standing directly in front of Beale, he was in a perfect position to attempt a intercept at that time period.
I have no comment on Taute as I'm not sure where he was on the field.
Lucid
Sorry - I missed your earlier comments. Hougaard is a enigma - yesterday he ws the poor player in an otherwise well-performinh backline. His worst mistake was missing the Beal tackle that let to the Aussie try. Bad mistake that one. On th oher hand he also showed virtually no attacking skills. even though he was not starved through lack of balls.
If I would be given a straight choice whether I prefer Jordaan or Hougaard on the wing - taking into account yesterdays performance , I would have chosen Jordaan
I really m worried about Hougaard as a wing. maybe the loss of form could be the result of him never being used as a wing for such a long period.
Insofar as Pietersen is concerned - I think he is a much more effectice wing than he was at center. There are even on this Board differences of opinion on whether Pietersen should be moved or not. However, it is entirely Meyer's decisionand I will accept his views on that issue. In the tests thus far he retained Pietersen on the wing aad that in fact is his better position proved many times.
CM - don't say I never did anything for you :) Couldn't find the specific thread you wanted, but maybe your response to Mr Debbs will suffice for proof that you wanted LeRoux at fullback well before this season starte.
Moz - bored at work, nothing better to do mate, haha.
Well done Oimatey! More egg all over Moffie's stupid face!
I was back as far as the beginning of January and I still hadn't found any post vindicating ou Maaik. I was going to give up, because every second post around that time was Moffie shrieking and squawking about Dave's height and how everyone else was a liar so it was tough going, but you've definitely saved me the trouble.
What's the bet Moffie's going to disappear for another "haircut"?
LMAO!
Hey bud, I wasn't looking to show up anyone - just was interested to see if I could find any evidence :). Mixed bag because there was another post from March and Le Roux isn't really brought up as a candidate for 15
Its worth the effort to see them go at it :)
Oimatey, whether you intended to show anyone up or not, you certainly made Moffie look like a complete and utter dick . . . which is great, because he is one!
Can this be? Is the cowardly board clown seriously attempting to save face by trying to convince people that April 1st 2013 happened before September 30th 2012?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!
The fact of the matter is, ou Maaik was giving Willie Le Roux the thumbs up before Moffie even knew who Willie Le Roux was!
