Jaco Taute- his last Test?

I light of all of the references to Jaco Taute, it seems fitting that he is given his own post.

I was surprised with his elevation to the starting XV. 

Firstly because most of his play has been as a fullback. It is clear that Dejong should have started as he is at least a good defender(positional play and and along with the expected physical attributes. He has played games at outside center for the Lions but that was largely due to injury crisis.

Today he was hopeless exposed. He spent much of the game out of position, perhaps he thought he was a forward as he was around the fringes of rucks with pick and carries. 

His kick that never made touch was hopeless. Somewhat of a Greyling moment. That was the best attacking platform for counter attack for the AllBlacks as our cover defence was mostly behind the tryline. 

And our guys were at sixes and sevens with Jean just snuffing out a try....the backs were positioned all over the place. That ball just had to go out and Pienaar delivered it on a platter. But frankly his missed tackle on Dagg right after the break was probably the killer blow. And just to make sure, a bit later, he rushed inside way too early leaving Conrad Smith with a trot in try. This matches Wynands three try for the opposition performance against the Lions.

And Taute at 13 was the big idea Dave was punting all year.....egg city.

 @Moz, the backline was so disjointed in the 2nd half that it seemed that their was no backline, just loose forwards. Jean Devilliers made 2 pathetic passes without even looking where he was passing that the dummy runner got in the way. Jean looked under massive pressure in the 2nd half. We needed a cool head

Is it really his fault afterall he was picked based upon his ability and current form but sadly for him and against the AB's he was made to look a complete and utter amateur up against true professionals.

However he wasn't the only one - even Habana was made to look silly on more than three occasions. Young Goosen is exactely that young but he will improve and the EOYT may just be the catalyst for him to find his feet rather than the tough initiation he had against All Blacks who were simply a step up in class against the weak Wallabies from last week.

I have to say that Houggard really is struggling to find his feet at the moment and based on Ruaan's effort I would put Houggard back at halfback as he just aint providing any impact or even getting engaged with anything?

Kirchner again proved to everyone that he aint no international fullback and JDV is just filling the numbers. Our entire backline was really bad today and as the AB's highlighted the gulf between them and Argentina so they have now exposed the many many frailties of our Bok game. We still have a long way to go to challenge the AB's for supremacy.

 Jaco wasn't the only kak bok on the night. Proven drug cheat goose wasn't all he was hyped up to be either. Can someone please explain (with reference to today's match) what this chump has done to warrant all the undeserved hype from the saffa fanboys? jantjies was heaps better when he came on than the goose pretender. I've been saying for months that's goose is a "nobody" and im still waiting to see what all the hoopla is all about. Goose was probably only ever any good when he was hopped up on 'roids. 

 nukefrekiwi.....we accept that you guys from the Islands know all about roids/drugs.

After our visit to your cloud 9 islands we saw enough of that going on there to keep you guys high for life.

Now keep watching and you will see Goosen (spelt with an N at the end) mature into a great fly-half...if you can focus that is!

 Huh?

I still think he is good enough. I however think his captain De Villiers needs to go! I would love to see Taute and Jordaan on the oversees tour! People are critical of taute's missed tackle on Dagg. Seriously guys Dagg is world class , probably the best fullback in the world. taute is still learning..have patience!

I think emotional outbursts are not the solution to the problem,   The attack on Goosen is unwarraanted and useless - there was no drug cheating allegation against him at all ever - so that is a bad reflection on the member who made that allegation.   Granted he is young and inexperienced - but at least the backline did not fail in the first halve of the game when he was on the field.   

The real disorganization took place in the time that Jantjies was on the field.   It was so bad that after a few passes to him - where he kicked a ball directly out and a number of hospital passes - the players themselves cut him out of passing to him altogether.   Remember Jantjies was on the field for a longer time than Goosen  in any event and the main disruption occurred with him on the field.

Taute has some potential and I would not throw him to the dogs immediately.   In his own interest he should move to the Stormers where he can be assured of decent defensive  coaching.   That disastrous releiving kick can be corrected without too many problems.

My best advice for the people pleading for the return of Morne Steyn or the usage of De Jongh  is that they should go and consult a shrink - they must be deranged to a massive extent.   De Jongh was a total disaster for the Stormers in the last Super 15 season as an attacking option - he is a reasonable defender - nothing else.   Morne was a total failure as an attacking flyhalf and a perennial reason for handing the ball over to the opposition by kicking away possession.    He in fact was the main reason why in tests in the past two years we struggled with sub-par possession in tests.   Once he was gone the possession stats changed completely.

 Arthur...

Bro, your comment to nuke made no sense at all.

We all refer to goosen as goose

Nuke....

What do you mean that he is on drugs? Did I miss something?

goosen is a talent, but he shouldnt of played in that test with an injury and i wont beleiev any arguments saying he was ready, cos i watched that game thre times in a row while waiting for the snore fest of a wallbies test and i saw nothing to warrant goosen leave the field the way he did.
if goosen was fit to play, then IMO he might be an injury prone talent much the way brussow is and thats a big shame, but hopefully not the case.

i do think that janties played exceptionally well given the time hes had in the Boks flyhalf position and the quality of opponents, he was very composed and did all the right things that the situation demanded like clearing the rucks when their numbers were short, attacking the line when an opportunity presented itself and there was suppor t to help win the ball back and his kicking game was very adequate.
the backline faltered simply because the Boks are not use to the expansive game, it dosnet mean they cant do it, cos the talent begs to differ, but meyer and co asked too much from too many players and the sneiors in the team didnt stand up to be counted.

as for taute, theres plenty of talent in the kid and he will come right if managed correctly. after watching the game for the 3rd time, i thought to myself they should have played habana in the cneters and taute on the wing, where his time at fullback will serve him much better for positional play and where defensively his options are a lot easier compared to the many desicions a center has to make.
as bad as taute was on defence, his attack was even worse, did he even touch the ball??? i remember him passing the ball out wide when JDV was on the wing (65:40) and the ball when a meter or two forward, but other then that,,,,,,,,,,
the NH will be a good opportunity for the Bok youngsters to come into their own and i for one hope they give goosen the proper time to recover and maybe invest more time in janties with either grant or morne as back up.

 

goosen is a talent, but he shouldnt of played in that test with an injury and i wont beleiev any arguments saying he was ready, cos i watched that game thre times in a row while waiting for the snore fest of a wallbies test and i saw nothing to warrant goosen leave the field the way he did.
if goosen was fit to play, then IMO he might be an injury prone talent much the way brussow is and thats a big shame, but hopefully not the case.

i do think that janties played exceptionally well given the time hes had in the Boks flyhalf position and the quality of opponents, he was very composed and did all the right things that the situation demanded like clearing the rucks when their numbers were short, attacking the line when an opportunity presented itself and there was suppor t to help win the ball back and his kicking game was very adequate.
the backline faltered simply because the Boks are not use to the expansive game, it dosnet mean they cant do it, cos the talent begs to differ, but meyer and co asked too much from too many players and the sneiors in the team didnt stand up to be counted.

as for taute, theres plenty of talent in the kid and he will come right if managed correctly. after watching the game for the 3rd time, i thought to myself they should have played habana in the cneters and taute on the wing, where his time at fullback will serve him much better for positional play and where defensively his options are a lot easier compared to the many desicions a center has to make.
as bad as taute was on defence, his attack was even worse, did he even touch the ball??? i remember him passing the ball out wide when JDV was on the wing (65:40) and the ball when a meter or two forward, but other then that,,,,,,,,,,
the NH will be a good opportunity for the Bok youngsters to come into their own and i for one hope they give goosen the proper time to recover and maybe invest more time in janties with either grant or morne as back up.

 

 Mike. Totally disagree with you regarding  Goosen.

I've just watched the first half again and he was totally ineffectual even prior to being injured. What he achieved was:

2 territory kicks from set plays/rucks where he kicked it straight down the throat of an AB

1 up and under which went far too far and put no pressure whatsoever on the ABs

2 missed penalties

2 successful goal kicks (from right in front)

So how he was better than Jantjies I do not know. At least Jantjies kicked 2 good goals which put the Boks back in front and played the entire 2nd half behind a badly tiring pack. Goosen played when the forwards were fresh however I noticed a reluctance to pass him the ball from broken play. They either didn't trust him to catch it or he was out of position!

So, I have to agree with Nuke. Much ado about nothing as far as the Goose is concerned!

moodaa

I believe that the All Blacks in fact targetted Goosen when he was on the field in any event.   I also agree he missed two pemalties.  Bearing in mind that he is very inexperienced  I will defnitely not write him off - he has 10 times the potential that Jantjies has.   Jantjies can kick at goal - but he also missed two penalties - one long distance, but one much easier tham the kick of Goosen that hit the goal post.   

Jantjies is to my mind not a flyhalf's arse - or perhaps he is.   Should not be anywhere near a Springbok team.  I will persist with Goosen if I was Meyer -- but never with Jantjies.   I think the next thing you will see is that Jantjies is gone from the Springbok squad.

By the way - if All Black supporters suggest soimething like the above - I would do the exact opposite.  LOL

Lots of guys here simply not admitting things didn't pan out the way they expected. The fans and those great rugby brains on Keo wanted Goosen and Taute. They got Goosen and Taute.

But Goosen was not great yesterday. He missed crucial kicks, spread nervousness through the team.....and his attempted tackle on the AB lock was a feeble effort. If Morne had made that tackle he would have been roundly condemned.

Taute was worse....much worse. He made three tackles and  missed two. His direct opponent Conrad Smith gained 65 metres. He missed touch....he jumped out of line....not scored as a missed tackle, but it might as well have been.

Play Taute and Jordaan as a pair on the YE tour? You can't be serious. Haven't we learned these youngsters need someone to hold their hands. And the fact is Taute may be young....but a young Marius Joubert isn't going to miss that tackle.

Morne is a limited option....but within that framework he delivers. Fans were  convinced every young player would be so much better than our RWC veterans.  They are not.....they have a lot to learn. Some will swim, most will sink. Rushing them in when they aren't prepared makes this just more likely.....Steph du Toit anyone?

Meyer made a huge mistake listening to all the advice, versus sticking with his own convictions. That's a mistake Jake never made.

 Goosen IS a convicted drug cheat. He was suspended for a paltry 3 months. It should of been 2 years but I don't blame SARU for giving him a break. Read em an weep    http://rugby.sanjaydeva.com/news/johan-goosen-guilty-of-taking-banned-substance

 Goosen IS a convicted drug cheat. He was suspended for a paltry 3 months. It should of been 2 years but I don't blame SARU for giving him a break. Read em an weep    http://rugby.sanjaydeva.com/news/johan-goosen-guilty-of-taking-banned-substance

 Wow, that was kept quiet, disappointing.

Mozart

O beg to differ from you completely on the issue of Morne Steyn.   He is a worse liability for us - since his greatest weapon has deserted him - namely goalkicking.   A 50% siccess rate is better than a 20% rate against the same team in the same year.  

Morne's main problem is the fact that he cause SA to always lose possession of the ball by always kicking possession away - even though Goosen was nerbous he was not as bad as Morne is on his good days.  You love to quote stats - but what % of the possession did we have yesterday to possession in tests since 2009?

Goosen will come right - he has the talents and the instinct.  Morne never was right - previously he kicked well at goal - but was a ball handover specialist the same time.   Give the youngster a few morre matches and see what happens.

About Taute you are right.   I think I said there are various options for the 13 position - I never said that Jordaan and Taute should be paired as centers.   I did say that De Villiers is likely to leave the international sceme and we desperately need a new center combination - but for heavens sake not De Jongh.   He really is a  harmless and useless center that specialize in buggering up backline play.   If you want to see no backline contrinbution to games then pick De Jongh at center - the Super 15 campaign of the Stormers is typical with him at 13.  He may be able to defend - but he brings zero to attack.     Wr also agree there is a massive quesrion mark over Frncois Steyn and I state clearly that a new combination should come about after evaluation of the 2013 Super series matches.   There really is nothing else to be done.

Nukefreekiwi

A kid at school gets supllements from his school and suddenly becomes a drug cheat - what a load of bullshit.   I know kiwis are stupid - after all they have birdbrains - but this is not srupid - it is idiotic.

 Oh so if you get your supplements from a third party that's a ligitimate excuse for being caught doping, don't be soo bloody daft.  This excuse has been used before and other athletes have been penalised far worse than 3 months, it seems SA is getting a bit a rep for this, Chilli Boy, Bjorn Basson, Johan Goosen - is there a problem in the Republic?

 For the article of Goosen being found Guilty, this is clearly not his fault. It should be the sports body that is supplying the band suplements that should be brought in front of a diciplinary body, not the player. These players are provided by their union with energy drinks, they are sportsman not scientists. They would have no way of knowing that their is band supplements in them, unless they were informed of this- and therefore accountable. Who ever is responsibale for the supplying the energy drinks should take the consequence, not the player who is not aware. The same thing happened to the boks a few years ago with a random drug test. The players got banned but it is the team doctor, nutrienist etc etc that should be held accountable, and the body that employs him. 

Often it is the athlete's team that is responsible but it is the athlete that reeps the rewards of performance enhancing drugs, not knowing is no longer a valid excuse, the entire team and management need to exercise due diligence over everything these days, which includes clearly knowing the list of banned substances, and sourcing your supplements from reputable suppliers.

 How would a player know?  The substances are often not even listed on the packaging. Only a scientist would be able to test this. Unless a player had an independent 3rd party company that had the required qualifications to test that no banned substances were included in the juice. Otherwise the player is relying on his union to have the ability to not provide supliments that include banned supliments. 

poi-e

Can you really think.  We are dealing here with a person that at the time was a school kid - he has no idea what the scjool is provifing is not a banned substance.   That makes your allegarions so ridiculous - it is not even funny.

I like New Zealand and its people - I admire the All Blak team - but I must admit I hate small-mindedness and that is exactly what you are busy with here.       

wow that article on goosen is a real eye opener and ive found a few more reports online about it too.

at the end of the day know one knows if goosen took the drugs on purpose or not, but i dont buy this he was a kid argument, IMO he was probably led by coaches and what have u to take them and placed his trust in the grown ups, a very likely scenario.
on the other hand, he was a talent and a half and growin g up he would have realised this so might have been compelled to take the substances the way many american students do when under pressure for college and scolarships and what have u. the level of preesure might not be the same, but i have heard of crazier things.

IMO goosen just misplaced his trust in the grown ups who either balatntly let himtake them, or were very ignorant in giving it to them, but at the end of the day, no one here knows the truth, but i know i will see and think of goosen, im not going to be able to help but wonder,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 

 Lol!  Folks can dress up Goosens suspension however they like but it doesn't change the FACT that he is a convicted drug cheat. Use of banned substances is rampant in schools in the Republic. A recent study found 1 in 6 saffa school boys uses steroids so don't go killing the messenger because you don't like the message. I'm still waiting for someone to explain why goose is so beloved in SA given his poor standings thus far. Jantjies is heaps better. Is it because he s cullet why most saffa s don't rate jantjies?  

 @nukekiwi- Goosen is a much better player than Jantjies, anybody with a basic understanding of rugby can see that. Just as Habana and JP are by far the best wings in South Africa. 

Here is some examples of Goosen. It includes scoring tries against the Chiefs who had the strongest New Zealand defence this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBJopExG09g

When he was in school he was kicking penalties of around 70 metres, and may be able to kick the ball penalties further than anyone in the world at the moment including Frans Steyn. 

At the moment he is just a bit small and needs to bulk up a little, although I doubt an energy drink will help him do this

Goose wont have a long career unless he probably does use some kind of steroid to keep his body from falling apart - found this article writte on a Bok site:

http://blogs.sport24.co.za/thepride/2012/08/30/when-will-johan-goosen-break/

 BTW Clevermike kiwis are not birdbrains or oakes or stupid we are human beings like you are so please show some maturity as you are starting  to sound like an very emotionally bile supporter ad I think you are a lot better than that?

School kids are regulated by the same rules Clevermike you donut, he broke the rules and was punished, less than most who have committed the same crime, deal with it, you mug

World Champs

because of problems rgar developed ver years with players like Morne Steynm Botha and Matfield to anme byt a few - kept in the Springbok team till way pasr their sell-by date, a vauum has developed in SA Rugby.   Many potential top players left SA to plau rugby in Europe and Japan, since they had no chance to develop further in SA and th moneu was very good.   That left a vacuum in SA Rugby and when they had to replace them - in some cases they are using 20 and 21-year olds.   At that stage they are not really physically strong enough to stand the rugours of top level rugby - at least onl a few are.

That contributes to injuries - and the selection of players like Goosen is probably not the best way forward - they should be allowed to mature further.   Foosen was 19 when he already played CC Rugby and even on Super level.   Perhaps it was prenature to start jim at that age as a player on that level.   I tend to agree with Sharkbok that he should muscle up..   He at present weighs in at 89 kgs - he should endeavour through gym work and using of the right diet to increase his weight to circa 96 kilos - the rest being basically muscles that would strengthen  his body substantially.

Basically I don;t think we actually gave an option available other than Goosen - so I hope he gets over his present problems and develop further.  Interestingly though - he is 7cm taller than Dan Carter  - but weighs 6 kilos less than him..      

If there is any nation that has suffered with potential players leaving our shores it is NZ. Without this sounding biased a kiwi scalp particuarly a test or super franchise member demand the highest caps frpom Eng, France, Ireland and Japan.

NZ has had to counter that threat by developing coaching and mentoring schools and programmes that are second to none. In NZ we have the Institute of Sport which houses the Rugby Academy which uses all the specialist coaches from the ALL Black make-up as well as most of the senior national coaches so that continuity and the same messages are being smothered into everyone.

There have been many other people including SA's such as Nas Botha who has been iinvited along with Jeff Wilson, John Kirwan, John Preston, Murray Mexted, Tane Umaga, Buck Shelford, Johna Lomu, Christian Cullen,Ric hie MaCaw and many many others.

This is where they teach our aged group players the importance of leadership and mentoring and developing their skills sets and at the end of each season these young teams get to play off against various national teams to really test their abilities. Many SA players and OZ's have also been invited on scholarships. THis is probably similar to what every other country does but in a small player pool that we have compared to OZ and SA and Europe we put massive amounts of time money and resources into our development.

NZ knew many years ago that professional rugby was going to take away many of the cream of our players and including the draw card to many of our up and comers. NZ put in place various measures such as not picking players from overseas for AB duties and not picking AB coaches who hadnt had long stints in Super Rugby - what they did well was to protect NZ's IP. The Black Jersey is not given away it is earned and it remains the highest accolade for any NZ player to attain and the pride of wearing it is something that is worth way more than what money can buy. 

Importantly fitness programmes are high on the list and it is not by accident that the AB's have always been the fittest team going. NZ have had a vacum for as long as SA but I believe we have managed our smaller resource so much better. There is also the factor that NZ seem to produce x-factor players that bring a dynamic that is unmatched and this is sometimes not taught it is ingrained by our rugby mad up-bringing

"The Black Jersey is not given away it is earned and it remains the highest accolade for any NZ player to attain and the pride of wearing it is something that is worth way more than what money can buy. "

That's crucial Chumps......Jake White understood that. It's at the core of a succesful motor cycle gang and any succesful sporting team.

Hey guys new here, anyway regarding the Taute and Goosen thing. Look the backline is really badly coached. We have no defencive structure. Some of you are blaming Taute here for the loss???? He missed a crucial tackle, that he should have made, it was a mix-up between him and Bekker, but he should have made it. Does this make him a bad defender? He made numerous good tackles, not the three stated in this thread.Conrad smith missed a tackle on Zane Kirchner, does this make him a bad defender? No. He missed touch with a kick, wasnt a bad kick, just stayed in field. The question needs to be asked. Where was our defencive line?

"His direct opponent made 65m". Stats, when taken out of context doesnt mean anything. None of these meters were gained when smith broke Tautes tackle etc.

Devilliers was really bad on defence as well, does this make him bad?

Goosen isnt 100% fit, so dont play him, as simple as that. Both him and Taute came back from long term injuries and were rushed back.

Before we blame individual players for bad defence, which Devilliers,Habana,Hougaard and Taute were all guilty of, lets look at the defencive structure. If any of you noticed,its really bad and I dont understand why teams dont score more against us.

I believe Taute should be the bok 15 in the future, but then he has to play there for the Lions and whoever he is going to play superrugby for.The thing is hat he can be good  at 13, but then they need to keep him there and not move him around. He has to decide and stick to that.

I see that some of you want Dejong there?? Dejong is no better than Wynand Olivier. Never passes and always runs into contact, Ive never seen Dejong put anyone into space and he gets run over.I rated Dejong back in 2010, but he really went backwards. Taute has put plenty of players into space, but this was from joining the line from fullback and then he created space for the wings.

Anyway ,I believe the All Blacks deserve more credit than  they are getting. They outsmarted the boks, simple as that.

Bring back Jake or Nick Mallet

Mozart

I am a great admirer of Jake White and think his dismissal was a huge mistake in the first instance. 

With due respect - I ask a sincere question - what would White have done after Morne Steyn failed repeatedly in tests played this year?   What would he have done as to the center situation when Francois Steyn - one of Jake White's finds did not perform and he was injured in any event - with Pietersen out.

In my opinion - Meyer had very little to work with.  He did make some crucial mistakes with selection of his assistant coaches - but was it his own choice or did he act on instruction from SARU?   Wr will never know.   However, as to player selection - what else could he do?   Continue with the  failed players - or try something else?   And what should that something else have been? 

It is very easy to criticize - but not easy to deal with issues.   So let me hear what the better solutions would have been in your opinion.   Once we have that we can discuss the matter on a constructive basis.

Warm welcome to the board Rugby 101. I have to totally agree with you that the fault re our defence did no lie alone with Taute. There has never ever been a question mark over his defence and it was very good against Oz. No the whole backline was a shambles on defence and if anyone failed it was the experienced Boks who did settled things down.

Quite decidedly Taute has NOT played his last test. He is our future fullback.

Goosen simply is not ready. He needs to work hard on his conditioning and play another Super 15 campaign. Goosen is the most talented fullback we have seen for a number of years and has to be properly managed. He is under 21 next year and should be left to play there. - with some senior rugby but not too much.

Mike you make an interesting point re Meyer and his assistant coaches. To me the absence of Nieaber is Provincial bias. The pomotion of a Vodacom coach to Bok backline coach smacks of interefence somehwere. How can one rationalise this?

Jantjes must play overseas at flyhalf and Lambie as well . Lets test the waters guys. See how they shape up. Unfortunatley Lambie has played little flyhalf so starts at a bit of a disadvantge but he may be our best best. Lets have some proof though.

Hey world chump toughen up a bit  oak - we love a bit of argie bargie here and you kiwi bird brains deserve all you get. Hahahahahahahahahahaha - hand the world chump a tissue or two someone! 

Jalap

Thanks for that bit of info.  I thought is was Taute - so stand corrected.   Would not be surprised though - Houfaard did the same in the Auusie game - missed the tackle on Beale and the Aussies scored - by all accounts a repertition..  Delighted that   Pietersen is back.  

It was definately Hougard. Here's the link:

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/rugby-championship/video/191694

Move the button to just over half way and watch just before 52 mins in the game. Taute tackles gear & its Hougard who runs inside & makes it easy 4 Smith to score, not Taute. Wigboy has blamed Taute about 4 times for this but he must be blind.