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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jacque Fourie's retirement

Jacque Fourie's retirement

Started by clevermike6 REPLIES218 VIEWS· 28 Nov 2014, 09:45
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2014, 09:45
#1
28 Nov 2014, 09:45#1

The following report from News 24:-


"Jaque Fourie’s unexpected and sudden decision to retire from international rugby is a massive blow to the Springboks’ plans to win the Rugby World Cup next year, the supersport.com website reports.


The midfielder announced his retirement from international rugby on Thursday, ironically at the same time he extended his lucrative contract with Japanese club Kobelco Steelers and shortly after turning down an offer to play for the Cell C Sharks in next year’s Vodacom Super Rugby competition.

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It is a decision that has taken the Bok camp by surprise and one which has thrown coach Heyneke Meyer’s plans into question.


It is no secret that Meyer envisaged a role for Fourie in the team to go to the Rugby World Cup. 

Returned from injury

Fourie's appearance last year in the end-of-season tour highlighted that and Meyer has been consistent in praising Fourie and his influence on the Japanese league since his move there.


With no specialist 13 centre chosen for the current tour, the Boks were operating under the belief that Fourie would be available when they needed him, so much so that they even decided not to call him up for this tour on the basis he had only recently returned from injury.


Meyer met Fourie on the Bok management’s recent visit to Japan when they were visiting sponsors Asics.  It was clear from conversations with the Bok management that they had decided not to push him to tour this time to ensure they have him available for all the camps leading up to the Rugby World Cup.

The Boks are currently playing two specialist 12s in the midfield, with Jan Serfontein growing in stature as he and captain Jean de Villiers are slowly building a formidable partnership. But while they have been devastatingly solid on defence, on attack their cohesion needs some more work.


JP Pietersen is seen as the natural backup to the duo at 13, with Damian de Allende – who is on the bench this weekend – the Boks other option.


Meyer has made it clear by his selections that he is looking for a big, powerful 13 to fulfil the role in the midfield, which means that those punting DHL Western Province captain Juan de Jongh for the position are likely to be disappointed. De Jongh has, apart from a brief appearance in squads in 2012 and 2013, never featured in Meyer’s plans and less than a year away from the World Cup that is unlikely to change now.

Massive contribution

Fourie said he had thought long and hard about his decision to retire.

“After much consideration with regards to my current career status, I have decided to not make myself available for any international rugby and have chosen to remain focused on continuing with my current club, Kobelco Steelers. 

"The decision to retire from international rugby was not an easy one but I am looking forward to what the future holds for myself and my family,” he said through his agents Union Sports.


But the underlying tone of the statement was that his club contract had trumped his international duty.

Sources in Japan point to a possible clause put in by the Steelers which ultimately forced Fourie to retire from international rugby if he was to extend his contract, and with the money topping R5m a year at the moment, it isn’t difficult to see this as a massive contribution to the decision.

Available

However, in Bok terms, Meyer has not lost both Fourie and Frans Steyn – the latter never likely to put on a Bok jersey again – both due to circumstances beyond the Bok coach’s control, there is some concern now that the Boks may have painted themselves into a bit of a corner in terms of midfield selection, only to be dropped by Fourie’s decision.


While no guarantees were ever given from either side, anyone who has heard Meyer speak over the past few years would know that if Fourie was fit and available, the Bok coach would choose him.


Yet further than this, it also rules out Andries Bekker – who similarly extended his contract with the same club – from the Rugby World Cup and also poses some massive question marks about the future of Boks playing in Japan, especially with Pietersen, Fourie du Preez and Schalk Burger all still under contract there.


All three are well into their careers but are likely to be available for the World Cup. After that, it is anyone’s guess.


DISCUSSION


The Fourie Issue


This is mostly a lot of twaddle - highlighting the deficiency in proper planning of Meyer insofar as the cricitcal no 13 position is concerned.   The mere fact that Meyer was thinking of Fourie as the key player in that position - is seriously problematic.   


Fourie played at 13 last year and his appearnces was seriously problemativ.   In teh first test against Wales Davies twice ran around him as if he was not there - and the saving grace for Fourie was Davies had to leave the field with an injury after about 15 minutes .  The problem here had a lot to do with Fourie's serious pace deficiency.   


Fourie for the rest defended well in all three tests - but he showed zero in attacking ability.   After being out of rugby for nine months there is no indication that Fourie will not be in a seriously-problematic physical codition.


Present Combination


If anybody cannot see that the present conmbination fo De Villiers is from n attacking perspective not working - they must get new glasses.   Both players are playing exactly the same style of rugby - both are more crashballers than space creators - and neither has produced near to zero in attacking play.  


To work on that one is seriously problematic - especialy since De Villiers form this year was not good enough - he lost a lot of form since last year.   I am not saying that Serfotnein ultimately may not become a useful 13 - but indications are to the contrary.   


Alternative Options


Three alternative players are mentione - namely JP Pietrsen, Damien De Allende and Juan De Jongh.


If a statement is made about the lack of pace and physical defects of Fourie - then the same can be said about Pietersen.   He has a most shocking pace deficiency and there is no way that he would overcome that playing "soft" rugby in Japan.


De Allende - since his school days never played at 13 - and Meyer used him twice in that position and then either left him out completely from the day squad or in the upcoming Wales Test put him on the bench.   The first game was played in the mud-bath in Peretoria and was not really a good enough test  for the player.  Howevr, unlike the other players De Allende did show some attacking ability.   Meyer has recently asked the Stormers to play De Allende at 13 - to give him an opportunity to settle into that position.


What was said about De Jongh is also twaddle.   He was given the opportunity to play at 13 in two tests in 2012  and into selected since then as a squad member.   The real reason is  not what is indicated in the article - namely his size - but rather is the result of an absolute disgraceful performance in those two tests where he effectively went AWOL.   Another issue of importance is that for the past two series in Super 15 De Jongh was the worst defending center in the whole competition.  Anybody thinking of him as an option - must have his head read. 


Other Japanese Club Players


Lets look at the condition of players from both the Japanese and French clubs first before dealing specifically with the Japanes club players mentione in the article.  Other than Goosen, there is not a single of the French club players who did not physically go backwards after leaving to join French clubs.   


  When Francois Steyn came back from France in April 2012 he was in a shocking physical condition - he was grossly overweight and apparently unfit.   He played in the June tests and 4 tests in the RC and he was at the best of times a seriously poor performer.   There can be no doubt that his physical conditin was part of the reason for the serious injury that put him out of rugby for the remainder of 2012.  


He then came back to the Sharks in 2013 and was even in a worse physical condition and in the first four Super 15 matches in 2013 he was so poor - Plumtree sacked him from the team and said publicly that Steyn is no center.   He played two games at outside center later in 2013 - was then injured and out of rugby for the remainder of 2013.    


This year he was still over--weight and an absolutely useless crashballer at 12  - equally useles at 10 I may add.    Evalauation of his stats indicates that he should never have been near the team on Super 15 level.    His attack was with only one exception - non-existent - his defense was nearly as poor as that of De Jongh.   His ball possession losses in games was pathetic to say the least.


Other than Goosen, none of the French club players who came back to be in the Springbok squad was any good this year - that includes Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Juan Smith and Morne Steyn.     All of them flop badly at times - some more than others.


If we think the  French Club players were inadequate - the Japanese Club players are worse.   After playing "soft" rugby for a season - they come back in a horrible condition:-


The article mentioned other Japanese Club players as well - but I am afraid they may be available for th Springboks - but they are in such poor form - they should npt be considered.


*    Francois Steyn - was poor after playing in France - is likly to be worse after a season in Japan - it would be difficult to imagine that he could be slower than he already was - but that is a real possibility.   The article is right about Steyn not playing for the Springboks again - but wrong insofar as the reason is concerned - his performances on Super 15 level was so bad - only a lunatic would consider selecting him


*    Fourie du  Preez has been playing somee tests for the Springboks over the past year and all that became clear is that he is not a shadow of the player he used to be - and tha at this stage his selection is based on reputation - not on adequate performance    Being also in poor physical form - he ahs lost speed and hsi latest injury is likely the result of poor physical condition.


*    JP  Pietrsen - is a joke in bad taste.  No pace to speak of and totally non-descipt performances - both in Super 15 and on test level.   

 

The joke is on Meyer - who keeps on picking the under=performing layers based on reputation - but that can take us nowhere fast.         


3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
28 Nov 2014, 09:58
#2
28 Nov 2014, 09:58#2
 Fourie should of been the 13 for the boks at the wc IMO. I know you disagree Mike, but if he regained form he is a brilliant attacking 13 option. Wasen't he man of the Lions series in 2009? Anyway, great career. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2014, 10:06
#3
28 Nov 2014, 10:06#3
 3ku1
What Fourie was is not what he is at present - that is the problem in his case.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
28 Nov 2014, 10:16
#4
28 Nov 2014, 10:16#4
 
He's slow, soft and old.

The perfect choice for Dumbass Meyer.

Thinking he could still be a factor for a successful test team is laughable.

I hope Meyer doesn't play De Allende out of position.

We have already seen that De Villiers is the only guaranteed selection for the WC next year.

Maybe he'll find his form again ... thing is ... what if he doesn't??
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
28 Nov 2014, 10:37
#5
28 Nov 2014, 10:37#5

We need to walk away from player tat were great 5 years ago.


they are older, slower, and those playing overseas are in poor condition.


It is wishful thinking to believe these guys are goin g to win you a world cup. 

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 Nov 2014, 13:45
#6
28 Nov 2014, 13:45#6
So much nonsense, it boggles the mind. Here, let me set you straight Michael.

Du Preez
: He has been the best 9 for the Boks under Meyer, so much so that he single-handedly transformed the side when he was selected last year. This year he continued in the same vein until injury ruled him out. We struggled for fluency in the #9 jersey for the rest of the year. His loss was a big one, especially given that we could have won the tournament!

Fourie: Fourie was a shadow of his best on the 2013 EOYT but he still showed his value as a defensive organizer and a highly astute thinker. No other centre can think like he can. He reads attacking movements flawlessly, is always in position and just has that uncanny ability to make something out of nothing that turns, important games in particular, the balance of the game right back into our hands. He is past his best, true, but even now nobody does what he can and that's why I would at the very least have him in the squad. De Allende is the least intelligent of the alternatives I have seen, JP - who is far from soft - has never come to terms with what is the most difficult defensive position on the field, continually being caught out of position and putting alot of strain on our defence. JJ is merely a sprinter, nothing more. If defences don't part and create a straight track to the try line he fades away; poor hands, inability to think and no fight. de Jongh is the best candidate for the job. He is a better defender than all the rest, including Serfontein. Is mobile, quick, has very good hands and is combative. With Jean and Lambie at 10 we won't see his ability on attack. Just as we hardly brought Fourie into the reckoning in his day, but the ability is their all the same.

Oh, and Michael. You cannot create space without taking contact. Your 12 must hit the gainline making positive yardage to create forward movement and suck in defenders. Your centres must run at defenders to fix them so that the outside backs can have that space. Without "crash-balling" you merely have crabbing that gets snuffed out as it reaches the touchline. Most teams like to drift and when the attacking team just passes down the line the defence shifts one man out and applies more and more pressure with each pass. That's where inside balls and flatter attacking from the entire midfield can hold the defenders movement. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2014, 14:25
#7
28 Nov 2014, 14:25#7
 Lestal 
I will be serious now and that may help you - and I hope it will.
F irst of all Du preez did wel wjem he came off the ebnch in teh runaway S oweto test a gainst Argentina - but in teh subsequent two tests was on par with Pienaar's achevements in teh away est against the Assuies were, and below par in the llis Park test.  In the Wales test last year he was above average - but a gainst the weak sScotland team he was showing nothing.   The same happened in the tests in June before his injury.   His up and down performances showed that he is physically not up to standard and I can frankly not ee how as you stated he transformed the team.   Nice wording - bu realy no proof of that.
Now for the issue of space creation.  There are ta number of elements there of importance and the idea of space creation through taking contact is delusional.
*   In the first instance to create space it is required to not run straight at the opposing player - but at a slight angle to the gap between the opposing defenders.  The SA crashballers all run straight at the first defender
*   If you take contact then you must be able to off-laod the ball to a plaeyer who may have some spce as a reuslt of the tackle.   The only SA center  who has off-loading ability in tackles is De Allende _ the other just dies with the ball
*  the third method is to draw in prefereably more than one defnder and know eaxatly how to time passes.   Also a defect in the case of both De Villiers and Serfontein.   
In essence thre is some logic in what you wrote - but to say that you must take contact to create space is not the case.  The other parts of the puzzle - namely off-oading and timing of passes is unfortunately absemt in both our two present centers.
I frankly differ from you in respect fo De Jongh - the reason why he is not suitable is his flimsy defense.  He is statistically teh worst defender in Super 15 in all franchises.   A missed tackle ratio of 26% is desperately poor.   He ahs shown zero in the tests in 2012 - and in fact might as well ahve not been on the field of play - since eh was never where he should have been.   B ad news that one.            
— END OF THREAD —

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