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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jake botched this badly.

Jake botched this badly.

Started by Mozart37 REPLIES712 VIEWS· 26 Jul 2014, 22:54
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2014, 22:54
#1
26 Jul 2014, 22:54#1

It started with selection, continued with his pathetic pre match complaints about the format, and extended into match tactics. Wrong, wrong and wrong. Not that the Saders weren't good...not that it was ever going to be easy...but shooting yourself in the foot is disappointing.

 

The biggest mistake was bringing back rusty, and largely passive Pat Lambie into 10. He kicked poorly throughout...even his linekicks off penalties were 20 metre jobs. Secondly why take off Marais and put Mvovo at fullback. Mvovo was so obviously totally overawed by the occasion and Marais did some decent things and wanted to compete. Reinach had a better game than last week, but his kicking and passing still put his team under pressure.

 

So were there any Sharks who advanced their reputations?

 

 

Certainly not Mvovo, Sithole, Lambie or Reinach. Frans did some hard work but was never able to make much impression. The guy who has probably blown all his Bok ambitions, though, is Jordaan. His pathetic tackle attempt on Read was the beginning of the end....this was Robbie Fruean all over again.

 

In the pack the front row was up against a much stronger unit. They did ok.....but Bismarck seemed far from his best. The Saders showed us again, as in RWC03, that given the need NZ  can scrum with the best. The locks were a huge issue. Massively overrated Lewies was a nothing....and Alberts is no lock. He looks lost in the second row.

 

 

In the back row Deysel's limitations were there for all to see....if he can't physically dominate he has nothing to bring to the party. Coetzee was competitive for the first 15 minutes and then faded away....leaving Kankowski as the Sharks only player who enhanced his reputation. He had to play the role of jumper and loosie and did some nice things.

 

Pretty much all of this was totally  predictable in terms of player performance....what was a surprise was the poor coaching performance, by one of the best in the game. Jake's one big fault is the need to be liked.....I can see no other reason an intelligent coach would pander to Durban bias and play Lambie at 10 ahead of Steyn.  It was a poor decision.

 

And some posters on here may now understand that selection is not vindication.

 

Perhaps the biggest winner today was HM, whose selection strategy looks better after this game  and  who now has a clearer basis for making the right decisions.

BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jul 2014, 00:22
#2
27 Jul 2014, 00:22#2
 Moz can you explain how the crusties got beaten by these same sharks players you are busy trashing. You recall that they beat them in christchurch with 13 men? They played most of the game with 14 men. 
By the way Lambie didn't lose the game - a completely flat performance strewn with unforced errors  did - the result of travelling 12,000  km did. Check your history.
Beeno's reality medicine flowing out to the needy like a river.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jul 2014, 00:25
#3
27 Jul 2014, 00:25#3
 The game was long since lost when Jake made his subsitutes. He would have been crucified by the wise for not making them!
A bad match or a missed tackle don't define a team or player especially when there are extenuating circumstances.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jul 2014, 00:28
#4
27 Jul 2014, 00:28#4
 Jkae is abasolutely right about the format and his comments were spot on. he noted the history but said they could srtill try and make history. Nothing negative and very aware of reality. Cant be faulted.
How wrong now to run down the coach! Kbbs must be laughing their heads off hearing this rubbish.
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
27 Jul 2014, 01:07
#5
27 Jul 2014, 01:07#5
Jake mismanaged his players. Hieneke Meyer said that it was the worst condition he has ever seen Boks in at the start of the test season. Jake the Snake played the Boks into the ground. They peaked too early. They led most of the season and were the only team to win 3 out of 4 away games, just losing narrowly to the Bumbies in OZ.
What he should have done is take of players earlier in matches when it was a done deal. Some of the early and mid season matches were sewn up early, and no need for the front runners to remain on the pitch. 
The starting XV just had to much game time and lost the physical domination they carrier through most of the tournament. 
The backline also became piss poor towards the end of the season. It does not seem that Lambie will ever be a top class 10, and would be better to move to fullback. I would have rather had Tim Swiel at 10, Fat Steyn at 12, and Bambie at 15. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jul 2014, 01:47
#6
27 Jul 2014, 01:47#6
 Mozart with his normal assessment of players are stupid and showed no rugby knowledge at all.  It is entirely predictable what he would write - he should have done this long piece of melodrama beforehand.
"Reinach had a better game than last week, but his kicking and passing still put his team under pressure."

When did that happen?  Reinach's passing was accurate and he did not kick as abyssmally as Lambie and Steyn did.
"Frans did some hard work but was never able to make much impression. "

Fransies's first three kicks was serious BS and he was cut out and nowhere to be seen when the re were some early line breaks - matter of fact it would not have happened if he was involved at all.   Anbd he turned up at the succeeding breakown points after the breaks.
Jordaan - the one incident simpleton at it again.   At least the player did some real ball carries and off-loads - Steyn did bugger-all. 
"the pack the front row was up against a much stronger unit."  
The player that could not keep up his end was your "national treasure"   Du Toit stood his ground well against Franks.
"Alberts is no lock. He looks lost in the second row."

Alberts is no loosie either - he also looks lost there. 
"Coetzee was competitive for the first 15 minutes and then faded away."
With the rest of the forwards - with the possible exception of Bismarck and Du Toit producing nothing of substance - Coetzee had to do the work of three players.
The only players who actually shoed anything positive at all - were Coetzee, Bismarck, Du Toit and Reinach - the rest was way below any acceptable level.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jul 2014, 01:51
#7
27 Jul 2014, 01:51#7
 Sharkbok
Any backline with Fransie in it will never function properly.  he sabotage every backline he plays for.  Plumtree is right - he is definitely not a center - and to think he is a flyhalf is crazy.   


JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Jul 2014, 01:53
#8
27 Jul 2014, 01:53#8
Moz: I have to say I agree with much of what you wrote. 
For a start a coach complaining about the format of the S15 and whining about the obstacles the sharks had was hardly a great motivation speech. It sounded like he had given up already.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2014, 02:12
#9
27 Jul 2014, 02:12#9
It's an old South African failing JW. Witness our guys not wanting to play the Barbarians in 1961, asking instead for a mixed exhibition match.  Witnes Mallett saying we couldn't compete against Island backs. Witness the constant excuse of tiredness on YE tours, notably when our winning streak ended as Mallett moaned about how tired we were.
This is cowardly stuff...a whiff of capitulation. I was very disappointed to see Jake falling into this trap.
PA
Papamoa
Club Pro683 posts
PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
27 Jul 2014, 04:01
#10
27 Jul 2014, 04:01#10
 Whites plan was properly fine like it has got them this far. Problem was he didn't have the personnel to execute it correctly. Hence his reaction at half time, clearly frustrated.
MD
Monkey D Luffy
Pro6,277 posts
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
27 Jul 2014, 20:56
#11
27 Jul 2014, 20:56#11
poor brother beeno is deluded into thinking that the sharks was ever going to repeat their heroics in round 14.

they might have been the deserved winners on that day, but every saffa and his dog knows deep in their heart that that win was a fluke, the crusaders were always the better team.

it was the exact same with the highlanders.
highlanders might have given  the sharks a spanking in rnd11, but the sharks was always the better team heading into the finals.

the brand of rugby that the joke whites sharks play is  inferior to anything the top teams in both australia and NZ have.
the outcome IMO was decided long ago, the sharks fate was never in their hands, it was in the hands of things out of their hands like counting on the crusaders to play poorly again and getting the bounce of the ball, all things which helped them in their upset win in rnd 14.

despite a 2nd toothless season from the stormers, IMO it is they who have the best chances of securing a spXV title for SA in the next couple of years.
theres some real talnet floating around there with JDV, lady elizbeth, nizaam carr, de allende, vermeulen, kitshoff, malherbe. plus some exciting young talent like kolbe and co.

IMO stormers should try and pinch a few other players from the other franchises like le roux or cornell hendricks. gwho can add x factor to an already stable core.

of course before all this is even entertained, coetzee needs to go.
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
27 Jul 2014, 21:35
#12
27 Jul 2014, 21:35#12
Losing to the Stormers in Durban and to the Cheetas in Bloemfontein was not good enough. 
Given the Sharks were the best overseas touring team this year winning 3 out of 4 games, with just one close lose to the Brumbies- it is clear the players peaked too early in the tournament. 
It was not the same team that thrashed the Warratahs amongst other teams
Jake White's game plan will only work if the forwards dominate, which is not going to happen every game especially when they players have been overplayed. 
The only silver lining is that at least they will get some rest before the 4 nations kicks off. 
KI
kingcorn
Pro3,695 posts
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
28 Jul 2014, 14:53
#13
28 Jul 2014, 14:53#13
 I have to agree with Moz, the tactics was extremely poor. Jake continues to try apply test tactics at super rugby level when if fact you need to have some flair in order to win the comp. The seven boks showed last night how its done. They had the right balance of players. Pace, Agility and muscle. The Waratahs are another team that's looking really good this year. They know how to use their power players and create spaces. 
Jake has a template and like to run of set-phases. He uses his quick players to work off scraps. I have never seen a Jake white team that can play with flair. It's all about the system he puts in place and that's why he can get the most out of know name players. 
He is a fantastic manager and great at building a team but I do question his ability to bring in flair into the team. At test rugby you can sacrifice it, but not at super rugby. Especially when the bonus points means it's a home and away semi.
If the sharks played with more flair they could have easily scored more bonus points which would have helped them to get a home semi. 
On players being played into the ground. I just think SA teams don't have the luxury to rest players. They play 4 games away where as Aus and NZ only have to 2 games. The only time SA teams won it was when they got ahead in the comp and stayed there. The only problem is that there are more games which makes it physical impossible. 
MA
Machiavelli
Club Pro323 posts
MA
MachiavelliClub Pro323 posts
28 Jul 2014, 14:59
#14
28 Jul 2014, 14:59#14
 Johan Ackermann is a better coach than Jake and that is a fact! 
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Jul 2014, 15:48
#15
28 Jul 2014, 15:48#15
 Sharkbok I have to compliment you on a real understanding of the issue. A tired team well of its peak and badly effected by travel as well and missing 3 of their first team tight five.
Moz and company are portraying an unwholesome saffa characteristic of having a go at the coach if he looses regardless of context. Somehow they find some weird form of solace in having a go at a coach esteemed around the world.
It was not  tactics that lost this game it was energy. 
Now ou machie villain is babbling on about ackermann being a better coach etc etc.  
It's embarrasing to be a saffa at times and seeing my countrymen too emotional to see reason. No more Jake bash ing oaks it reflects badly on you.Thanks






MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jul 2014, 21:54
#16
28 Jul 2014, 21:54#16
The old South African tired excuse. Sure they were tired...so is everybody else.Jake lost this match when he selected Pat Lambie.  
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Jul 2014, 22:08
#17
28 Jul 2014, 22:08#17
 No it was not Lambie that lost the game but a collectively poor game due to the fatigue/ travel factor.
I have seldom seen the Sharks so flat.  

3K
3ku1
Pro2,580 posts
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
29 Jul 2014, 15:40
#18
29 Jul 2014, 15:40#18
 Ha sorry but all this is just a bunch of excuses. The travel factor and fatigue factor was always going to be the case. It was up to Jake and the Sharks to prepare for that, they did not prepare for it, their own fault. Sharks are not the only teams who have ever had to travel for a semi, and other teams have wan. Crusaders were the better team simple as that, end of.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Jul 2014, 15:58
#19
29 Jul 2014, 15:58#19

Ha ha, what a load of shit.......Frans would have made stuff all difference at 10, where he has been average all season. His kicking was just as average as Lambie's on the night.

 

 

The biggest problem with Jake is that like all SA coaches, they lack imagination. Our useless coaches stifle the talent we have, they insist on playing percentage rugby, they don't encourage our players to express themselves with ball in hand......the only player who seems to have a free licence to play on instinct is Willie le Roux......for the rest, our players seem hindered by a laboured game plan, where taking contact is the order of the day, coupled with kicking the crap out of the ball.

 

 

The Saders and Tahs showed exactly how the game should be played, its such a simple model - impose yourself physically to set up phases (drawing defenders in) and then encourage your attackers to attack space or create it. We fail in the creation for our players are programmed to attack contact. Its so bloody stupid and self destructive......geez has Jake learnt stuff all?

 

One only needs to see Jacques Potgieter in action for the Tahs, hell we had him as a donkey under the Bulls and in minute 7 we saw the expressive Potgieter in action against the Brumbies, when he ran onto the ball well and instead of taking contact as he would have for the Bulls or Boks, he executed a perfect pass to a support runner - the man has evolved, by simply being empowered to attack space, or put a better placed support player into space.

 

Our players have the skill, they are just not allowed to express it under the instruction of our out of touch coaches.......all of SA is stifled by this pathetic outlook on the game......no more so than our useless national coach, who not only has no idea on how the modern game is played, he is stuck in a bloody time warp when it comes to the selection of players. 

JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 Jul 2014, 16:02
#20
29 Jul 2014, 16:02#20

Beeno: I hope you have taken note of the wisdom of 3ku1 and Saffex. It's nice to see such knowledgable posters on this site.

KI
kingcorn
Pro3,695 posts
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
29 Jul 2014, 16:38
#21
29 Jul 2014, 16:38#21
 Well put Saffex, just read a article about stats and the Waratahs has the most off loads in the comp this year. No wonder, it is extremel risky to take the ball to ground. 
I have been watching the Kiwi team to see how the attack out wide. We tend to shift the ball wide leaving a smaller player against a bigger player which leads up to them being counter rucked or conceding a penalty whereas the kiwi teams tend to play a bit of sevens style out wide. If there is no space out wide, instead of pushing for the line, the widest player drops deeper and where by the second last player plays the ball back to him. The wide player almost act as a scrumhalf / flyhalf in bring the support players back into the game, attacking the middle and getting the ball back to where the support are. 
Attack the space and know when to push wide and when to drop back and keep the ball of the ground and moving. With those tactics there is less need for big ball carriers but players that have pace and good at passing
BE
becs
Pro4,378 posts
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
29 Jul 2014, 16:42
#22
29 Jul 2014, 16:42#22
 The Sharks were clueless and the tactics were really what one expected.....they were also executed poorly.
But when you have such a limited gameplan as that, it was never going to work. 

Suffice to say, most saw that coming, didn't they ? 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jul 2014, 16:56
#23
29 Jul 2014, 16:56#23
 Mozart
The biggest problem was all along that Jake White built a playing strategy where Francois Steyn was the key ingredient.   That strategy cost them key matches - because in most of the matches Steyn was average in some - mostly those they llost - he was poor and clueless.
White would not accept that he coould be wrong and when it came out that Fransie had a knee problem - he kept on playing him and excuse him from training sessions on Mondays and Tuesdays.
The whole problem emerged that Steyn failed at 12 in respect of both attacking and defensive play and at 10 he lost out because he was clueless as to when to kick balls and when to pass and even when he passed balls he was planless in thh passing -  he used dkip passes to cut out overlaps for instance - and the result for the backline was non-productive and on teh whole malfunctioning.
White's othjer problem was that his game plan was too kick-based.   Fransie's only kicking ga,e consists of kicking long kicks into the opposition half - so long that there was no way for effective follow-up and putting the opposition catchers under pressure.   He made far too many kicking errors - like kicking directly into tough and statistically he was the player with the most possession handovers in Super 15
The playing strategy of White depends on pin-point accuracy and sound defense.   That was a problem he had to face.   The accuracy in the kicking game was not anywhere near pin-point - it was wildly erratic and non-productive.   
Because of White's insistence on Steyn in the team - the whole backline was to be changed.  He brought in Jordaan to 12 - when Steyn was played at 19 and Pietersen to 13.  This strateguy played havoc with the defense of the Sharks - although Jordaan did his part in defense -  Steyn and Pietersen failed badly in defense in key games.   Jordaan in attacking play rarely got the ball from Steyn - whether the latter played at 10 or 12.   When he got the ball from other players he showed some real spark and it is a pity that Steyn cut him out of making a contribution to the Sharks backline play.  
Steyn really was the problem that neutralized the Sharks backline in attacking play - the forwards were the ones that normally brought on the better performances of the Sharks.   The only false note here was the number 7 position - where White used Deysel and Alberts.  Deysel with all his deficiencies is a hard working player - Alberts is a low work rate player.   
There is just one other thing - Plumtree last year said that Steyn is not a center and should play at full back.   Despite everything said and written about Plumtree - he was correct in his assessment of Steyn whose poor showing at 12 this year confirmed his opinion. 
White's highest priority for Super 15 next year is to find an inside center that could do the job properly and also to strengthen the crucial no 7 position - 2 players he shopuld amrket out to French of other foreign clubs should be Alberts and  Deysel.  Problem is most teams would not want them near to their squads.       

           
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Jul 2014, 16:56
#24
29 Jul 2014, 16:56#24
 Yes we all knew travel would affect them badly and they had in any case peaked to soon.
Could all amateurs here please refrain from Jake bash ing as it reflects badly on you.
Thanks
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jul 2014, 18:41
#25
29 Jul 2014, 18:41#25
Jake is a fine coach, who got this one wrong through selection, bemoaning the format and keeping failures on the park too long. I have always been a Jake supporter, he has generally been excellent...but he capitulated to Lambie nonsense and paid the price.
Lambie is a good fullback, he is not a top level flyhalf. He doesn't have the physical talent.
As for the Potgieter nonsense. Potgieter had a great S15 in 2012... Playing exactly the same physical rugby he plays for the Tahs. But when we got to the TN he was quickly exposed as a big bruiser, with deficient  skill.
My guess is exactly the same thing will happen if we choose him again for the Boks. But my guess is HM is never going to choose a player who unnecessarily criticized him public ally. Nor would any coach who wanted a unified team.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jul 2014, 18:57
#26
29 Jul 2014, 18:57#26
 Sorry Mozart
You concentrate on Lambie and nobody else.  I look at the whole season - not only one match.  The player White kept int he team for far too long is Francois Steyn - nobody else.  
If you think that Potgiieter is playing the same rugby now as he did in 2012 -  you really have lost the plot.   He still plays a physical game - but he has added a lot to his game - like ball skills, breakdown ball protection and recovery - elements he never had before. 

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Jul 2014, 19:45
#27
29 Jul 2014, 19:45#27

Oh what utter rubbish, fact is Jake took the Brumbies away from their expansive style and introduced the SA way, he has been found wanting with his narrow vision at the business end of the S15. Seeing the backs in space kicking away possession was pathetic. Jake got some selections wrong like Alberts at lock, but more than anything, his gameplan was well short of what is required to wing the big games. 

 

Lambie is one of the best 10's in the game, far, far better than Frans has ever been at 10, physicality has stuff all to do with 10......look no further than Cruden, Barrett, Foley, Cooper, Goosen, Beale, Preisland, every French flyhalf etc

 

His break showed more enterprise than Frans did at 10 in his last 5 games

 

As for Potgieter, wow Moz that about sums you up....completely incapable of digesting the reality of the situation. You are blind to reality. Yes Potgieter was good in 2012 when he as the new boy on the block, but it was the brash and bash that got him recognised, by 2013 he was exposed for this one dimensional approach.......his move to the Tahs has added some vision to his play, he now thinks and varies his play

 

Damn right he would be the same average player for the Boks if he returned, for his coach would instruct him to bash

 

 

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jul 2014, 22:52
#28
29 Jul 2014, 22:52#28
His break what a laugh...I saw you predictably referring to it earlier. Lambie  had one forward marking him, who was hanging off to mark the man outside him and telegraphed it. Lambie just had to run straight.
Lambie has never been a convincing flyhalf. He is a fullback, and all his good moments in tests have come T 15. 
So you wanted Reinach he failed. You wanted Lambie he failed. Oom your leader wanted Jordaan he failed. You are a big Lewies fan....he failed.
Time and again you come up with your stupid theories. Ideas so simplistic they have been considered and rejected before you even thought of them.

Get it through your thick head Lambie kicked off into touch, he kicked penalties into touch, he missed kicks he should have made. Every time the team got a bit of momentum he killed it. Added to which he turned the ball over twice and missed 4 of his 10 tackles. He was a disaster.  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 01:05
#29
30 Jul 2014, 01:05#29
 Mozaqrt]The worst failure throughout the season was Fransie - he failed in nearly every match he played in - whether at center or at flyhalf.   Why do you ignore his performance stats?    Plumtree had it right - Fransie is not a center, but this year proved he is not a flyhalf either.
You constantly go on about players like Lambie, Reinach. Jordaan and now Lewies - but in most cases your recording of what they did is flawed, not based on fact  and seriously prejudiced.
When you have a malfunctioning  backline it just cannot work out in favour of the team and throughout the season that backline malfunctioned.   It malfunctioned on Saturday - but not really for the reason you made it out to be.  Reinach had a good game - Lambie was out of sorts, but that was probably the result of lack of recent game time  - Fransie did bugger-all - but to put other players under pressure.  Get it now?
Your campaign to discredit Lewies would not help either - because he played at lock together with Alberts - whose work rate was even worse than it normally is - one would not have thought that possible - but he was.  Your national treasure did not have a reasonable game as well.
There iss onething amiss in the team and one would like to see how they perform in the CC series when Steyn will be in Japan.   I will lay a bet - the backl;ine will perform much better without him.                                 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2014, 01:18
#30
30 Jul 2014, 01:18#30
No point in trying to cover things up by talking about the whole season and blaming Frans. We are discussing the semi final. You and Dave we're happy with the team changes....unlike the situation with HMs Boks when you were totally unhappy. But the Boks won and the Sharks lost. What does that say about your judgement.
The fact is Lambie is not a flyhalf and Reinach is a fine runner but a poor scrumhald, as Cardinelli notes: 

It was White who backed Cobus Reinach to start at scrumhalf in the semi-final, this despite the fact that Reinach has shown in recent weeks that he does not have the skills to play a more tactical game. Charl McLeod was the better option, although not by much. The Sharks need to find a No 9 in the Fourie du Preez mould.


CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 01:22
#31
30 Jul 2014, 01:22#31
Miozr t 
The Sharks has a good enough scrummie at present.  They need to find a decent center at 12 and a decent 7 - that would help massively.    
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2014, 01:42
#32
30 Jul 2014, 01:42#32
Dream on...I'll keep debunking the silly stuff. Here's a list.
Kirchner
MvovoJordaanJJSteppieGoosenJantjiesReinachVan ZylHougaard at scrumhalfMalherbeCoenieBritsMarcel van der MerweStephanieCoetzeeLabuschagneLewiiesCoetzeeJ du PlessisPotgieter
A long list of chaps that have been punted by you and Dave over the last two years. Not one of whom have made a meaningful contribution to Bok rugby yet. You chaps simply don't get what makes a Bok. Hell you both missed Willie and Pollard...what does that say?



The fact is we find two or three Boks a year not ten.  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 01:55
#33
30 Jul 2014, 01:55#33
 What have you debunked?    What about those you punted all along?
De Jongh, Fransie at flyhalf, Morne Steyn, Willem Alberts, Juandre Kruger, Willem Alberts They have all failed this season or in tests.   You hate Coetzee so much 0 you even has his name twice in your list.
Players like Sefontein, Goosen, Labuschagne, Potgiteer and Lewies  did better than you want to acknowledge - a hell of a lot better than the Stade Francais Reject did for his club and the low work rate Alberts and non-physical Matfield did.    
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2014, 02:36
#34
30 Jul 2014, 02:36#34

Nonsense....Morne was money against the Worlds and Wales. Since the RC he has been tackling at 83% and in his last match against Wales, when it counted, he made all of his tackles. Contrast that with Lambie's miserable 60% tackle success rate against the Saders.

 

Alberts has been forced to take on the donkey work at lock. He was fine in the June tests despite all your howing. And I know you hate the poor chap but naming him twice

 

"De Jongh, Fransie at flyhalf, Morne Steyn, Willem Alberts, Juandre Kruger, Willem Alberts"

 

 

....is a bit over the top. The tiny list you have of my so called mispicks includes three players Matfield, Alberts and Morne who will be starting in the RC. Your chappies will be playing CC. As for Frans he may not be back soon, but only because he elected to walk out. The Frans/JP pairing was clearly intended to play against Wales.

 

Face it OOM you and Dave are lost.

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 08:44
#35
30 Jul 2014, 08:44#35
Mozart 
What a  load of crap.   Morne was real crap in the Ellis Park test and the second Wales test.   His tackling stats you suddenly put at 83% - where did you get that from?   His missed tackle ratio was way over 30% in the Ellis Park test and  25%  in both the  French and Wales tests last year.  Anyway - a player who cannot make the starting line0up of his club and failed horribly against the AB's last year must really be the bottom of the barrel.      
Willem Alberts is a serial failure in tests and on Super 15 level and I put his name down twice - same as you did in respect of Coetzee,  
Frans was the poorest 12 in any Super 15 team this year in both defense and attacking play - matter of fact his attacking abilities  have been zero and his defense stats a joke.  In fact there was no improvement on his putrid performances of last year - when he was with good reason dropped from the Sharks starting line up. .   Why should he be back after disrupting totally the backline play of the Sharks this year?
Face it Mozart.  You are lost somewhere in the past and even in your suggestions take the Springboks back to the failed state of 2010 and 2011.   
Meyer is likely to pick proven failures for this year as well - and we will go backwards in the coming RC if he does.      
       
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jul 2014, 16:02
#36
30 Jul 2014, 16:02#36

Reinach failed - what bullshit, he was the best Shark on the field

 

As for Lambie's break, it was great and far more than just a straight run, for had it been a straight run, he would have been nailed by the very forward he bamboozled with his show and go.

 

Its this kind of vision we expect to see at 10, something Frans has not done all season at 10 for the Sharks. It took one game for Lambie to show Frans up at 10

 

Frans's only spot is 12, where his physicality and ability to offload in contact is his strength......he does not have the aptitude or hand to foot speed required of a 10.   

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2014, 16:56
#37
30 Jul 2014, 16:56#37

Well all I can say is thank heavens for HM. he wont be relying on Lambie at 10, Jordaan on the wi ngs or Reinach at scrumhalf.

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 17:11
#38
30 Jul 2014, 17:11#38
Mozart
Hope he does not rely on Morne at flyhalf, Slapgat at lock and Alberts at 7 either.   All three contributed mightily to the losses of the Springboks over the last 4 years. 
Your take on Reinach is pathetic in any event.   
— END OF THREAD —

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