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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jake fingers the issue last Saturday....Swiel

Jake fingers the issue last Saturday....Swiel

Started by Mozart32 REPLIES366 VIEWS· 10 Jul 2014, 17:12
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2014, 17:12
#1
10 Jul 2014, 17:12#1

Mike and Dave, or is it Dave and Mike......these two are joined at the hip.....told us Swiel had a good game. I looked at the stats and it wasn't at all clear. Then I looked at the game and I saw a hesitant young chap, who made a pathetic tackle attempt on van de Walt try, kicked weakly out of hand and generally looked confused. Frans took over much of the non goal kicking and inserted himself more as the game went on.

 

When I told the two selectors that, I got the usual push back. But press accounts point ed out the risk of playing Swiel at Newlands....again heavy OOm/Sapp push back. But now Jake has spoken....Swiel heads for CC bench duty, Zeilinga is on the bench and Frans starts at 10.

 

Jake has unfortunately been reluctant to seize the opportunity of making Frans his flyhalf. If he had done this following Lambie's injury and not gone back and forth....the Sharlks would be in a better place. But this incredibly stupid SA view, strongly held in Durban, that Frans can't play 10 has cost Sharks and Bok rugby.

 

He is the ideal physical number 10. He just needs some belief from those around him

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jul 2014, 17:50
#2
10 Jul 2014, 17:50#2
 sizes


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 1 1651 RE: Tyler Fisher to start at 15 for Sharks
January 20, 2014, 17:28:25

Saffec


Lastly - I also thought Ndungane may be used as full back - but have no sure feeling about that one.  However, you are wrong about Swiel - White enticed him to come to the Sharks with promise of game time in Super 15.   On the first occasion Lambie is not available - do you think White is going to break his promise to Swiel?   In any event Swiel is a much better flyhalf than Zeiinga..       

   

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
10 Jul 2014, 17:57
#3
10 Jul 2014, 17:57#3
I thought Swiel had a pretty good game and would have liked to see him at least on the bench. He was good against the Crusaders. 
I am sure he still figures well in Jakes Plans. Zelinga at this stage probably has a better kicking game.
The area that Swiel needs to work on is his kicking game. This is such an important area for South African flyhalfs because our teams score less tries with the backline than OZ/NZ and more with the forwards, so it is vital to win the territorial battle and play more of the game in the opponents half. 
Unfortunately for Swiel Goosen can probably kick further than any other flyhalf, and his tactical kicking was excellant on the day.
Swiel had a good break towards the end of the game, he set up Steyn to run into space and he was getting the backline running of first phase- which many SA flyhalfs struggle with.






CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jul 2014, 18:01
#4
10 Jul 2014, 18:01#4


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11651 RE: Grant or Jantjes
January 24, 2013, 10:11:35

Beeno

Let me explain.  I wish that some of our fat, slow  and small backline players look at the way Swiel plays - and learn how to read games, run a speed, make passes anf off-load balls in tackle situation and say -

"If he can do it - so can we".   And then start to learn how to doi it.

The three coming nearest to Swiel are Lambie, Goosen and Jordaan.  Other than those three - ball sense and skills have vanished from our backline play. The present established  norm is we do not read games and apply ball skills at all - we do not pass and off-load balls effectively - we do not contribute to tries - we die with the ball - we do nothing a decent backline player should do  = and then wonder why our backlines are malfunctioning.

He certainly is too young for Super 15 - but will be a lot better than some of our other present players.   He should harden up a lot and in two years time he will be on the Springbok shortlist - I am sure the ball sense wiz kid will make it.



He has to hurry up. He only has about 7 months left to do it in.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2014, 20:21
#5
10 Jul 2014, 20:21#5

SB.....to be honest I think Swiel suprised Benjamin by actually trying something when he made that break, he had been so passive before that. He then offloaded to Frans, but at knee level, I reran the tape a few times.

 

The real issue is, he doesn't know what to do yet. He hasn't played enough non school boy rugby to be a decision maker.

 

Much is said about his potential, but there's a problem. He isn't strong enough in his upper body. Like so many SA young backs, Steppie being an example, he will likely bulk up. But after he has bulked up, will he still have the snap?

 

 

This is why a kid like Pollard is such a gift....he is strong enough before hitting the gym. So he may retain his quick feet.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jul 2014, 20:47
#6
10 Jul 2014, 20:47#6
 Another one about flyhalves:

Sun-Tzu says:


Sun-Tzu

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 696 RE: Sharks side named
February 13, 2014, 11:21:15 Yes it would be interesting to see what Swiel can do. With Frans inside him I think the two could be devastating. I wonder how long Lambie will last.
......and then this little beauty:

lol


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
P osts: 11651 RE: Sharks side named
February 13, 2014, 11:44:39

Dof dose


I never said Fat Frans would not be in the team - I said he better produce the goods - otherwise he will be gone sooner rather than later.


Lambie will last longer than Morne Steyn will last as starter for Stade Francais.   He has a rugby brain - Morne is a robot.


Sloth will be subbed early - he will as per normal last to about half time and is likely to be on thin ice - since he will produce as per normal if last year is taken into account - the bare minimum.


Reputation and media hype will not help Steyn and Alberts - they better start showing that they belong through good performance.   We will soon enough see what happens on Saturday.  





MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2014, 20:52
#7
10 Jul 2014, 20:52#7
Never has anybody been more wrong, more often about more things than the liar Mike. And that's on a good day. Did you know he is descended from Eva S osatie von Tomatie?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2014, 20:58
#8
10 Jul 2014, 20:58#8
 Mozart
I do not lie about player performances - that is you niche.  Hell I am  still trying to identified and digest your string of lies  about the player performances of the past weekend.  I tried to count them - but it was basically in every sentence - so I stopped  even that effort.
By the way are the ESPN stats also a lie - you refuse to deal with Steyn's poor perf ormances based on stats - so what now?   
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 21:59
#9
10 Jul 2014, 21:59#9
 Yes Sharkbok Sweil had a decent outing but no use rushing these youngsters.
Jan was of course always pretty big. I cant recall seeing a weight given to him under 96 kg?I dont think he has bulked up that much didnt need to really. Fine young player on the rise.
Steyn has yet to do anything showing he is worthy of a Bok place. Frankly his place in the Sharks side could get shaky but for a lift in performance. Can he raise his game is the question or is he done due to the knee problem? 


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Jul 2014, 15:51
#10
11 Jul 2014, 15:51#10

Exactly Shark, Swiel had a good game......Moz sees these games through biased eyes.......Swiel is yet another young player he does not rate for some pathetic reason.......but mostly I suspect because I rate him.

 

His other angle is that he wants to see Frans at 10, when clearly Frans is not a 10's backside - he just does not have the feel for 10 and more importantly, his hand to foot is slow and has been exposed a good few times with charge downs......imagine relying on Frans under pressure to clear the line.

 

Bottom line is, Jake has started to lose the plot with his selections.....the same poor selections that see the Sharks slipping down the table.

 

Swiel had a good game, confirmed by most who saw the game and verbalised by the commentators on the day.

 

Instead of moving Frans back to 10 and playing Jordaan out of position at 12......faith should have been shown in the talented Swiel at 10, with Frans sticking to 12 where he belongs.

 

If you are not going to do that then at least have the decency to keep Swiel in the match 23 and not relegate him in favour of the average Zielinga

 

Jake is doing a pre WC - losing the plot - so much for him having learnt anything

 

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2014, 16:35
#11
11 Jul 2014, 16:35#11
 Suddenly Mozart comes up with teh same tommyrot he came up in the case of the Taute dropped goal -  Swiel surprised Benjamin because he was so passive.  An ouitright lie as per normal.  Swiel often attacked the gain line and was not passive at all - he in one move handled the ball twice and got way over the gain line.
In both major breaks he made the ball recipients - Francois Steyn and Sithole buggered up by knocking on perfectly good balls passed to them - if they did not tries were almost certain to be scored.
Personally I think that the Sharks will struggle to win tomorrow.  Steyn neutralizes their backline 90% of the time - not a good position to be in.       
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jul 2014, 16:53
#12
11 Jul 2014, 16:53#12
Ah well, kicking poorly, missing a tackle for a try, being relieved of kick off duties and failing to provide any decisions, constitute a good game in the Davie/Oom world. You guys never learn. I told you after finally watching the game, he was going to be dropped....but you couldn't see it. So don't come bawling about Jake now....he had no choice. The mistake, and a costly one, was starting Swiel last weekend.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2014, 17:01
#13
11 Jul 2014, 17:01#13
 Moozart
"missing a tackle for a try"
Just a quote and a question.  Do you ever blush or feel ashamed about lies like that?  The tacklers of Van der Walt was Feysel and Cooper - not Swiel.  
The rest of your tripe is equally wrong.  Jake dropped him and the Steyn foul ups will continue.  There was some life in the  Sharks backline last week - and two try scoring opportunities went a-begging  basically buggered up by Steyn and Sithole.  There will be none on Saturday because of Steyn being at 10.  
The Stormers must be celebrating all the way to the back because of that selection.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jul 2014, 17:14
#14
11 Jul 2014, 17:14#14

Ran straight past him....the commentator remarked it was poor defense by Swiel. I checked it....he was in perfect position to make the tackle but ended up just flapping at him.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jul 2014, 17:36
#15
11 Jul 2014, 17:36#15
 
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11668 RE: Jake fingers the issue last Saturday....Swiel
July 11, 2014, 15:01:35  Moozart
"missing a tackle for a try"
Just a quote and a question.  Do you ever blush or feel ashamed about lies like that? 


Pot..... kettle......

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11669 The strange way of Picking French Club players for the Speingbok team
December 15, 2013, 02:19:20


The third player involved is Bakkies Botha.   It is almost insulting that Toulon now prefer Ali Williams as their starting lock.


And then you got this little surprise:

This was the line-up against Exeter last week.

15    Drew Mitchell   
14    Alexis Palisson   
13    Mathieu Bastareaud   
12    Matt Giteau   
11    Bryan Habana   
10    Jonny Wilkinson (capt)   
9    Sebastien Tillous-Borde   
1    Florian Fresia   
2    Craig Burden   
3    Martin Castrogiovanni   
4    Bakkies Botha   
5    Ali Williams 
  
6    Juan Smith   
7    Steffon Armitage   
8    Chris Masoe   
16    Jean-Charles Orioli   
17    Xavier Chiocci   
18    Carl Hayman   
19    Virgile Bruni   
20    Rudi Wulf   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2014, 17:41
#16
11 Jul 2014, 17:41#16
 balls - that was impossible - Van der Walt got the ball three meters out and the first line of defense was Deysel and Cooper - not Swiel.  How he in three meters could run straight past a backline player - the latter having to be behind the tryline and maul  in this case -  only you would know    You checked nothing - the players to make the tackle was those mentioned by me.  
Would Fransie have been able to stop Van der Walt - if he and Alberts could not stop the De Jager try - after De Jager got the ball further from the tryline than Van der Walt was when he got the ball.
Look - put it into you numb skull - no backline player can stop a forward of the sizes of players like Van der Walt or De Jager that near to the line.  I have never seen it before and  think if you are honest - you would admit that you have not seen it either.    
 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2014, 17:44
#17
11 Jul 2014, 17:44#17
 Dofste Doos on earth 
What the fuck has the discussion of Swiel got to do with Bakkies Botha simple kont?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jul 2014, 17:48
#18
11 Jul 2014, 17:48#18
The key is in pot......  kettle..... . Simple Kont.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2014, 18:02
#19
11 Jul 2014, 18:02#19
 I did not lie - Botha was not playing because he was injured - of which I was unaware and you told me afterwards about it - I accepted the fact.  Mozart is simply lieing through his teeth and that is the difference.  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jul 2014, 18:10
#20
11 Jul 2014, 18:10#20
 Really? Should I repeat it?

"The third player involved is Bakkies Botha.   It is almost insulting that Toulon now prefer Ali Williams as their starting lock."

Now piss off before I remind you of the rest again.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2014, 18:21
#21
11 Jul 2014, 18:21#21
 Ceradyne
What a lot of balls - you piss off.  This tread deals with Swiel - nobody else - you deluded dunce.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jul 2014, 18:26
#22
11 Jul 2014, 18:26#22
For once you are correct. I also thought that it was a load of  balls when I read that Ali has replaced Bakkies at Toulon.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
11 Jul 2014, 18:36
#23
11 Jul 2014, 18:36#23

Lol

 

You oaks are funny

KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
11 Jul 2014, 18:43
#24
11 Jul 2014, 18:43#24
 Swierel, jirre!  I'm not even going to read all this.  That boy defends like a turnstile for COSATU strikers...Woer, da gaan die ou in sy moer.  Even Naas Botha defended better than that maergat kind.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Jul 2014, 18:54
#25
11 Jul 2014, 18:54#25
 The deluded dof doos windpomp!!! Man the man is becoming a legend of sorts. Tim Sweil is a talent not to be qwritten off so easily. He had a decent game last weekend.
Wasn' t ou windpomp going to make a statement today or has it been postponed again till tomorrow. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jul 2014, 19:02
#26
11 Jul 2014, 19:02#26
 The one on the Blue Bulls - no less - but I hope he puts it under the correct thread.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Jul 2014, 19:31
#27
11 Jul 2014, 19:31#27

He never kicked badly, he was good with ball in hand, made a nice break and put people into space with some good passing.

 

Swiel had a good game and was easily one of the better Sharks on the field that day.

 

 

Missing a tackle hardly equates to a poor game, not that I recall the miss.

 

 

You told us he was going to be dropped - wow, great move by Jake, the coach who keeps losing these days.......good measure that  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jul 2014, 19:33
#28
11 Jul 2014, 19:33#28
 I told you I know how to keep a poepol on string. Clearly you don't know, ou Beenbal.  But don't worry . I will tell you tomorrow.
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
11 Jul 2014, 20:18
#29
11 Jul 2014, 20:18#29
 Daddy, please!  There were three occasions clearly repeated on one of the magazine shows.  He runs nice lines, is unpredictable with ball in hand but his defence is nearly a s bad as the Israeli army's.
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
11 Jul 2014, 22:00
#30
11 Jul 2014, 22:00#30
 Mozart, Frans has never had a problem playing 10 at Super level; he did it throughout 2008 and 2009. It doesn't however work at test level, it's never worked at test level and I strongly doubt it could ever work at test level. The greater point is that centre has been our great weakness for nearly two decades. Of the past fourteen in particular we have been limping around with a pretty poor excuse for twelves. Jean is a particular culprit and it is imperative that Frans replace him. Establishing Frans at 10 for the Boks won't help our cause in my opinion.

As per the Sharks? I agree with you there wholeheartedly. There were signs of Swiel being too green in the warm-up against Saracens. I believe you were saying much the same then as well.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2014, 16:32
#31
12 Jul 2014, 16:32#31
Well Sun, my thinking about Frans was aimed mostly at the RWC....a slaughterhouse, where space is so tight, his size and boot could make a difference. But I'm afraid his departure before the Welsh series will have rocked HM. I Can't agree on Jean, but we have had this debate before.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jul 2014, 17:23
#32
12 Jul 2014, 17:23#32
Mozart
You are proabaly right about Steyn's actions having "rocked" Meyer.   What "rocked me was his poor display in Super 15 this year and his negative impact on backline play - especially his speed impediment and his poor defense and ball sense.   That makes him totally unsuitable to play at flyhalf.
He is off to japan to go and play soft rugby there.  Coming back he will be more over-weight than he already is - he will be even slower in pace than he already is and he will again want to prescribe when he should train and when he should sit out.   Plumtree was right - he is no center and definitely not a flyhalf - so White is taking a very long time to get the right impression of the guy.  
Another disappointing game today is a certainty.
By the way - I think Meyer never had him in mind at flyhalf - and his fist choice  12 will be De Villiers - so where does Fatso fit in?     


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2014, 18:57
#33
12 Jul 2014, 18:57#33
Yes those Japanese just love handing out money....look at the failures they recruited ....F du Preez, Fury and Frans. Think OOM....try to use whatever limited capacity you have.
— END OF THREAD —

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